Is Shane the best American ever at both

What's comical about the above statement is the notion that pool has official "World" titles... There is barely any sanctioning body to begin with for pool. The world titles are nearly worthless. How can you consider another 9-ball tournament harder to win over the U.S. Open? The competition certainly isn't any more difficult. And Shane has one it 5 times now. The entire idea, that because he doesn't win tournaments overseas somehow makes him a lesser player is just silly.

If Shane played in decades past, he'd still be the monster player his is today. I can confidently say that for two reasons. #1 His work ethic wouldn't change. #2 the players of today are just as good, and there's more international players today. In the 80's they had to worry about maybe 2-4 pinoys, now look at all the competition from Asia, and Shane is still at the top.

The 80s were a different time for sure. But even since the early 90s there has been a strong presence of international players including Asia . The last American to bring the world title back was Earl in 02. And he could very well be the last . Shane has yet to step up and take it granted he was in the finals twice. This past final was not a strong performance when it mattered MOST. That is what makes someone truly great in their field.
 
The US Open is just as tough to win . And just as prestigious .
$50K to the winner this year.
How many ex-world champions did Shane beat to win the USO last week?
A bunch of them.

The US open is probably the second toughest tournament to win, you have to be a very good player to do so.

As I've said SVB is almost certainly the best American currently...however that doesn't make him an all time great (yet, he may well retire as one, who knows).
 
If the name of the World 9-ball Championship were changed to Filthy Latrine 9-ball Championship, with everything else remaining the same, would it be a more, less, or equally prestigious title?

I suppose the US Open could have just as easily been called the World 9-bal Championship.
 
And who's won more major titles than Shane in the last 10 years..

As I've said, he's almost certainly the best American player currently and undoubtedly a very good player.

However that doesn't make him an all time great (currently...he may well retire as one).
 
If the name of the World 9-ball Championship were changed to Filthy Latrine 9-ball Championship, with everything else remaining the same, would it be a more, less, or equally prestigious title?

I suppose the US Open could have just as easily been called the World 9-bal Championship.

The world of pool (or the WPA and everyone outside this forum) recognise the World Championships as the pinnacle. The US Open is a very prestigious tournament too, however it is not the pinnacle.
 
If player A dominates head-to-head match-ups against player B, but never wins Number 1 Event XYZ as player B does, who's the better of the two players?

Are you suggesting that technically player B could lose every head-to-head match-up with A and still be the better player because he won a specific event?

That's how tournament play works to an extent...however no-one is claiming that would make B the better player, it may well make them a champion (depending on the event).

However I haven't claimed SVB is better or worse than anyone, I've stated he is probably the best current American player. My point was that to be a true great you need to be a World Champion. He may well retire as an all time great, who knows!

Currently however he is a very good player, but not yet an all time great.
 
The world of pool (or the WPA and everyone outside this forum) recognise the World Championships as the pinnacle. The US Open is a very prestigious tournament too, however it is not the pinnacle.

Sorry, but if that's true, then this world of pool you refer to consists of people with pinnacle-shaped heads to match their pinnacle event.
 
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Sorry, but if that's true than this world of pool you refer to consists of people with pinnacle-shaped heads to match their pinnacle event.

Why not do a poll to see?

Of course everyone would need to state nationality to put context around the result, because outside the US very few would claim the US open is more prestigious than the World Championships.

Even on this forum alone it would be interesting to see the result!
 
Sorry, but if that's true, then this world of pool you refer to consists of people with pinnacle-shaped heads to match their pinnacle event.

The thing is, as Americans, we view ourselves as the center of the world. Most of the WPA events are held in Asia and attract all of the top Asians and Filipinos. It just depends which ones show up to the US Open in a given year. The fields are tougher in WPA events.

Also, being single elimination makes them that much tougher to win and Shane would not have won the US Open if it was single elimination.....
 
What's comical about the above statement is the notion that pool has official "World" titles... There is barely any sanctioning body to begin with for pool. The world titles are nearly worthless. How can you consider another 9-ball tournament harder to win over the U.S. Open? The competition certainly isn't any more difficult. And Shane has one it 5 times now. The entire idea, that because he doesn't win tournaments overseas somehow makes him a lesser player is just silly.

If Shane played in decades past, he'd still be the monster player his is today. I can confidently say that for two reasons. #1 His work ethic wouldn't change. #2 the players of today are just as good, and there's more international players today. In the 80's they had to worry about maybe 2-4 pinoys, now look at all the competition from Asia, and Shane is still at the top.

I never said it was harder to win, I said it was more prestigious.

Whilst the implication is that a World title is harder to win, in any given year theoretically the US open field could be stronger.

However it doesn't change the point, to be the best you need to beat the best (well your opponent, whatever you may think of them) when it counts, in the world final.

SVB is a very good player and may well go on to be an all time great...he's just not there yet.
 
The thing is, as Americans, we view ourselves as the center of the world. Most of the WPA events are held in Asia and attract all of the top Asians and Filipinos. It just depends which ones show up to the US Open in a given year. The fields are tougher in WPA events.

Also, being single elimination makes them that much tougher to win and Shane would not have won the US Open if it was single elimination.....

Also it's important to point out, whilst I agree 100% with what you've said, I'm happy to concede that in theory in any given year a US open field could be tougher than that years World Championship field...however I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single player who'd trade a World title for a US Open title..yet I bet Shane would give up one or more of his US Opens for a World tittle :-)
 
Why not do a poll to see?

Of course everyone would need to state nationality to put context around the result, because outside the US very few would claim the US open is more prestigious than the World Championships.

Even on this forum alone it would be interesting to see the result!

People can think what they want, but the proof will always be in the pudding. Public opinion, like event names, isn't worth spit in this conversation.
 
Opinions

Here's what AZ readers need to understand: It is impossible for a pool player to reach a level of play and achievement that would gain unanimous agreement from all audiences that they are the best ever. Even if a player ran 100 racks, 10,000 balls, 100 billiards, and won every tournament and money match for 10 years, someone would challenge the idea. Did he do it over 10 decades? Did he do it when he was 80 years old? Did he do it with a house cue? Did he do it on a 10 footer? Did he do it against Harold Worst or some other player that none of us have actually seen play or seen footage of?

My point is NOT that SVB is the greatest of all time.
My point is NOT that he ISN'T.
This isn't about SVB. This is about opinions.

Supporters of SVB, you need to realize that there is nothing he can do to get unanimous support for being best ever. Some of the posters on this thread may say "when he does xyz we will agree", but that is just them. There are others that still wouldn't. Don't let it bother you. This says more about them than it does about SVB. And it doesn't say they're wrong, just that they're entitled to their opinion.

And those that argue against SVB being the best ever because he hasn't won a world championship (or the right kind of world championship), or for whatever other reason, you need to understand that you individually don't get to dictate the measuring stick that others are allowed to use to form their own opinions. You can't say 'until he wins this tournament he can't be greatest ever'. That's your opinion. If you were the president of all things pool and had an official honorary best ever title, maybe. Let me know when you get that set up. Until then, you don't have to agree, but your opinions are no better than anyone else's.

In the end the way things are always decided is by popular opinion. What does the majority think. This might bother those that are hard on SVB because we in the US ARE a bit biased. It might bother people that are perfectionists, because they think having impossibly high standards makes them smarter or better. But in the end, votes count. Otherwise we don't have a working democracy and are getting in the way of a peaceful transition of power (too soon?).

My personal opinion is that SVB isn't the greatest pool player of all time, ever...because I don't think it's fair to award that to any one player. Particularly when I never saw Mosconi play straight pool, or Lassiter play 9 ball, and I HAVE seen Efren play enough to know it would be hard to say anyone played better than him playing his game on the old equipment, nor do I know all of the Chinese players' games as well as I know his. Besides, so much depends on format, what game, what equipment, cash or tournaments, etc. No one can dominate every game in every arena. But SVB is absolutely the best pool player to come out of the US post 2000, and one of our greatest players in history. And if we're talking about best evers, in my opinion he should be included in that conversation and sit at the table with these giants.
 
The thing is, as Americans, we view ourselves as the center of the world. Most of the WPA events are held in Asia and attract all of the top Asians and Filipinos. It just depends which ones show up to the US Open in a given year. The fields are tougher in WPA events.

Also, being single elimination makes them that much tougher to win and Shane would not have won the US Open if it was single elimination.....

that just makes luck an even bigger factor. if they went to round-robin for the final 8 and a long set for the finals, then i'd be convinced.
 
People can think what they want, but the proof will always be in the pudding. Public opinion, like event names, isn't worth spit in this conversation.

So...the rest of the world doesn't count?

Only your opinion counts?

What exactly are you trying to say here?
 
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