Is Shane the best American ever at both

BeiberLvr said:
who's won more major titles than Shane in the last 10 years..
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Darren Appleton's 4 majors carry a hell lot more weight than SVB's 5.


BeiberLvr said:
This most recent US Open had a field that was just as tough if not more so than any recent World 9 Ball field.
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No. Just, NO!

vjmehra said:
The US open is probably the second toughest tournament to win
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The China Open is tougher than the US Open. The less known home players there are vastly superior to the American "dead money" in the US Open.
 
snucar said:
No. Just, NO!
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Umm, I am no SVB fanboy and most of his US Open wins dont hold a candle to a world title, but that last US Open had a phenomenal field and absolutely rivaled world class events.

The only person at the absolute top who was "not" there was Wu.
 
Celtic said:
Umm, I am no SVB fanboy and most of his US Open wins dont hold a candle to a world title, but that last US Open had a phenomenal field and absolutely rivaled world class events.

The only person at the absolute top who was "not" there was Wu.
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This. I'm all for accepting Americans need to fix their fundamentals and we aren't anywhere near the top of food chain anymore.

But to say the last US Open field was not as strong or stronger than any World 9 Ball field is ignorant.
 
boogeyman said:
Hey now wait just a minute! lol

I don't remember any of the old timers like Buddy, Varner, Sigel, McCready, etc. playing
jam up one-hole either.

To the OP: IMO, SVB has the best work ethic of any U.S. player.

To everyone:

IMO, SVB has just as much "gamble" as anyone who has ever played.
He has already proved himself in matches where he can grind it out and win.

As for tourneys, his competition is as tough--in some cases tougher--than in years
past. Let's be honest, there are more great players in tourneys these days.

SVB HAS to win a world title or two to cement his legacy.
He's been in the top four in a few world championships.
There's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do it eventually.
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Wow I REALLY disagree.

Nick Varner is a 1 pocket killer. IMO, the best champion because he won in college, and professional in ALL disciplines.

I would take Nick over most 1 pocket players TODAY, and he is much older.

IMO, Nick is a HOF player for a reason, he is very very special.

Just of the record, when I asked Buddy who the best 9 ball player he has ever seen including himself, he said Wippy Lassiter. Pool players always think they are best and they need confidence. You would have alot of folks saying Buddy is the best for the cash in his day, but he didnt hesitate for moment that Wimpy was the best he had ever seen, period.

Ken
 
BeiberLvr said:
But to say the last US Open field was not as strong or stronger than any World 9 Ball field is ignorant.
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Did I say that the last US Open was not a strong field? No I didn't, so I don't know where that assumption comes from. Of course it was a strong field, but stronger to the World Championship? Based on what exactly? Plus, in Qatar no elite player gains any real advantage like Shane does in the US Open playing in his home soil. It ain't a small factor that, as any pro would tell you.
 
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snucar said:
Did I say that the last US Open was not a strong field? No I didn't, so I don't know where that assumption comes from. Of course it was a strong field, but stronger to the World Championship? Based on what exactly? Plus, in Qatar no elite player gains any real advantage like Shane does in the US Open playing to his home soil. It ain't a small factor that, as any pro would tell you.
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Looking at the top 16 for each event.

The average Fargo Rate for the W9B was 788. This doesnt include M. Simenjuntak who I couldn't find a rating for. However, his rating would need to be 810 or better to increase the overall average.

For the US Open the average was 790 for the top 16. Taken a step further, 8 of those 16 have a rating over 800. To put that into perspective, only 11 people in the world are rated above 800.
 
snucar said:
Did I say that the last US Open was not a strong field? No I didn't, so I don't know where that assumption comes from. Of course it was a strong field, but stronger to the World Championship?
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It was "as strong" as many of the world championship fields.

In post 141 you absolutely clearly refutted that in your reply to the second quote you quoted.
 
Shane is in the "Elite" category in my book...He may not have the titles that other greats of the game achieved yet but he still has a bit of time left in his career. So on paper I get why a lot of people say "No he's not the greatest" but it's hard to deny that he has the skill to get there! Like Bieberlvr pointed out there are only 11 people in the world with Fargo ratings of 800+ and Shane is one of them! He is absolutely our current best...Greatest ever? Maybe...Only time will tell...
 
warfdiesel said:
I love these kind of threads that bring out all the old stories of guys back in the day. I wish I would have gotten into the game a lot sooner in my life. I have been told by tons of people where I live that my Grandfather was the local monster and could have been great on the big stage. Wish I would have got to play with him. They say he never lost for the cash here or anywhere he went. I guess he was on the road for awhile.

As for Shane he is for sure one of the best. I still like Alex as the best all around player, but don't ask me why or argue with me about it because I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you about the past. I just like his game and his attitude.
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What was his name , I'm sure if he could play some of us old guys knew him , no matter where he was from.
Maybe we will have a story or two for you, { positive ones , please.}
 
Celtic said:
The problem with Worst is he died to quickly to know how good he actually would have been long term.

If Mika Immonen had died back in his prime when he was winning the World 9-ball championships and US Opens he would have become a legend and people would say to this day "had he survived he would have dominated pool".

If Johnny Archer had died after winning his second World 9-ball Championships he would have been considered the most dominate 9-ball player to live given how hyped he was back then.

If Yang had died after drilling Orcullo for the second money match in a row? He would be seen as the best ever and people would say he had been destined to be a multi-time world champ. Instead he lived, lost some worlds matches, and became a fisherman.

The problem with the above guys? They lived and they were proved to be human. Worst died after peaking for a short period of time and people have assumed that he would have remained that dominate forever. Only thing is, very few players ever do... Every year in pool there is a new phenom that takes the world by storm, Chang, Ko, SVB, Orcullo, Yang, Appleton, Shaw, Wu, ect... only thing is most survive and come back down to earth.

Worst peaked and became the worlds best for a short period of time, as many players do. Unlike most players he then died and left a bunch of people in the pool world thinking he was destined to dominate pool for the next 20 years if it was not for brain cancer. More then likely he would have been another great player who came and went like most of the others before and after him. The guy was already pushing 40 when he died, he was fairly old in pool years, most players peak well before their 40's and Worst would have had a tough time staying at the top.
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There is some validity in your statement in my experiences.
I watched them all come up from Rempe to Varner,Hall, Sigel, Strickland and Archer.
For a period of a year or 2 at their peaks, nobody could beat them , then they got crushed by someone, realised they could miss, and never played at that crazy level again.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Looking at the top 16 for each event.

The average Fargo Rate for the W9B was 788. This doesnt include M. Simenjuntak who I couldn't find a rating for. However, his rating would need to be 810 or better to increase the overall average.

For the US Open the average was 790 for the top 16. Taken a step further, 8 of those 16 have a rating over 800. To put that into perspective, only 11 people in the world are rated above 800.
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and the rest of the field? the US open is half filled with US amateurs, just check the tables how many whoopings there were....... you dont find that in quatar!
and again, what is a rating worth, when bartable champs are in front of worldchamps?
 
GoldenFlash said:
You have no clue as to what you're talking about.
I've seen most all of the greats play....from Buck Bozeman to SVB. (and there are a lot more than three people left alive who saw Worst in action, by the way).
Nobody today or before could play pool like Worst. He not only had talent....he had a confounded GIFT. It was almost supernatural. He could see those shot lines and by golly, he could hit the balls in the right spot. And he hit 'em HARD too.
You can hold him up to the harsh light of twisted ridicule forever. But, that just shows how little you really know about pool before you came along.
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"golly?

lmfao

how old is this dinosaur? sorry gramps but todays players would maul you and worst and your mislead daddy

lol
 
pmac666 said:
and the rest of the field? the US open is half filled with US amateurs, just check the tables how many whoopings there were....... you dont find that in quatar!
and again, what is a rating worth, when bartable champs are in front of worldchamps?
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Think again, chief. And that's just some of the matches in the final 64.

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I really got under your skin?? Relax...it's all good.

smashmouth said:
"golly?
lmfao
how old is this dinosaur? sorry gramps but todays players would maul you and worst and your mislead daddy
lol
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So?
Maul me??? Aw man, anybody can beat me.....I'm a nobody. Absolutely nobody.
And I'm old, ugly, fat, lazy, broke....for cryin' out loud son, I got 'em all.
But I bet I'm ranked somewhere in the top 10 million.
How about you?
:D:D
 
Justin Bergman said:
Lol U.S. Open is way tougher than Qatar
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based on what? even those middle east qualifiers are stronger than a quarter of the US open field...... but how should you know? no disrespect, i understand your point of taking the easy money on a bartable instead of wasting tons of money going to asia, but when you want to be considered as topplayer (outside the US) and when you love the game, you should try it on the worldstage..... i would with your abilities and your confidence!
 
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