Mosconi Cup - Bad winners are worse thn bad losers.

[justinb386]

I didnt see any of the Moscnoi cup nor read any other posts besides this one, if this is true there is one simple solution :grin: This isnt strictly directed towards the Europeans but they just happen to have made the perfect example. Let your cue do your shit talking and gloating and leave it at that, all is fair on the table but when the game is over saddle up and move on. Now if your opponents are an asshole during the match (in general not just the Mosconi cup) that could be a different story but I doubt that was the case. Rodney should have just pancaked every MFR that moved their lips.

Yeah, I agree. Just play pool, and do not gloat. Be respectful to your opponents (win or lose). No need to do all of this "we are the best, and would like to prove it by challenging anyone in the world". No need to throw your hands up in the air saying "I'm the best", lol.

 

[John Disque]

Of course, this coming from the guy that thought Johnny Archer should be castrated and thrown in prison because he got a little excited when his opponent made a critical error.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=437094

I have never seen that video but I just watched it, and no one said Johnny should be thrown in jail.

His action was over-the-top and uncalled-for and unprofessional and disrespectful, but I think he just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second.

Johnny is old-school. He knows what pool-etiquette is, and I'm sure he regrets his action.

I know it's old-fashioned and conservative but --- you don't celebrate someone else's misfortune, especially when the match isn't complete.

 

[justinb386]

Of course, this coming from the guy that thought Johnny Archer should be castrated and thrown in prison because he got a little excited when his opponent made a critical error.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=437094

Well, yeah, I was pretty shocked at the way that Archer acted after Orcollo made an error (that he might make maybe 1 out of a 1,000 times). Just play the game. No need to act like that, after your opponent makes a really big mistake (on a hill hill game, by the way). His response to the miss was very uncalled for, in my opinion. I will say that he was nice and humble after he sunk the final shot, so maybe he felt bad about the way he reacted to Orcollo's miss.

 

[justinb386]

Well - I am grateful that someone can at-least begin to see this.

They acted like we were dogging shot after shot and it's just not the case, BUT (and here's the thing) even if we were playing horrible - it simply is not the time and place to continually say that the American players are not good enough.

If you want to expand the MC - go ahead and expand but to say we cannot compete is FLAT OUT WRONG and proves that anyone who says this simply was NOT PAYING ATTENTION or does not understand pool.

It's a race to 5, alternate breaks --- one bad roll, or one dry break WILL cost you the match and one lucky roll will win the match. The format begs for lopsided scores and if it (the sets) were a race to 11 or 13 you'll see a much closer match.

The Americans were treated unfairy and unprofessionally and you DO NOT play "kick the dog" when you win against ANYONE in ANYTHING. It defines a "lack of class and character!"

Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I really do not understand why many of these posters are being so disagreeable. They can't simply understand that Europe and their captain were gloating. The captain even goes as far to say that his team is the best team "ever". Can you believe that? The best team ever? Really?

 

[spartan]

I would like to see Europe against Asia.

Gonna be a really close one.

My ideal dream match-up

Team Europe :

Darren Niel Jayson Albin Mika


Team Asia :

Big Ko , Chang Jung Lin , Wu Chia Ching , Biado n Orcollo


Im having an orgasm just anticipating this ...

Europe and Asia will be spoilt for choice and can form few strong 5-men teams each.
I would swap Mika with Thorsten , Ralf, Mark Gray, Boyes or Meiling
I would swap Biado with more hungry tough players like Lee Van,Johann Chua , Chang Yu Lung
In fact , I think it should be 2 separate Asian teams Taiwan and Philippines.
Make whole thing team event country v country of top 9b countries
USA
UK
Euro (all other countries in Euro are 1 country)
Taiwan
Philippines
(China can be excluded - snooker, C8B , women's 9b are popular but not men's 9b)
That will stop complaints about "unfairness" of many countries v 1 country .

Did the European team really play that great though? I seen many shots that really should not have fallen, if they were on good 9 foot tables, with normal rails and normal pockets. I would bet on the best 5 Asian players against the best 5 European players any day. By the way, I am curious how many world cups the European players have won, and how many the Asians have won in the history of the World Cup of pool?

The World Cup of Pool (WCOP) is just a one doubles pair per county event so irrelevant to compare to team event like MC.
There have been 10 editions of WCOP- Asia won 6, USA 1 and Europe 3

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Yeah, I agree. Just play pool, and do not gloat. Be respectful to your opponents (win or lose). No need to do all of this "we are the best, and would like to prove it by challenging anyone in the world". No need to throw your hands up in the air saying "I'm the best", lol.

Haven't some of your players gotten a little carried away after winning things, too?

"I'm king of the world!"
"The world got the eight!"

 

[vjmehra]

"No disrespect to team America - they aren't good enough." ~Hearn

"It has given us all a problem so I think we have to search it. I have spent the last couple days talking to the best pool players in the world - in Asia. I will take the top pool players, from China, from Korea, from the Philippines and see if we can test these guys, because they weren't really tested by the Americans. It was a one-way street." ~Hearn

"The people at Matchroom feel that the Americans just can't test the European side the way they could in the early days of the Mosconi Cup, so - what do they have to do? --- they have to go to where some of the best pool players on the planet are - and that's Asia. Go to China, go to Taiwan, go to the Philippines... We gotta find the team that can test these guys - because, quite apparently, the Americans can't. ~Jim Wych (*Note the word "we.")

Yup --- Sounds to me like they're saying "American pool players suck." And just minutes after they won. --- But - sugar-coat it all you want.

Having lost 7 cups in a row how else would you prefer THE PROMOTER AND ORGANISER NOT THE PLAYERS put it?

He wasn't rude or offensive in anyway, he merely said that the Europeans need to be tested. Do you disagree with that statement?

If he'd said the same thing in the early 2000's about the European side would you have disagreed with it then?

The point still remains however that the players were very complementary about the US side and very clearly said they under-performed and would bounce back.

 

[vjmehra]

Did the European team really play that great though? I seen many shots that really should not have fallen, if they were on good 9 foot tables, with normal rails and normal pockets. I would bet on the best 5 Asian players against the best 5 European players any day. By the way, I am curious how many world cups the European players have won, and how many the Asians have won in the history of the World Cup of pool?

Isn't that the point though?

Barry Hearn was saying the European side needs to be tested against the best, i.e. Asian players.

He wasn't saying Europe would win, in fact by saying they should be tested against the best he is implying they are not the best themselves, but the hypothetical Asian team is.

 

[vjmehra]

I have a strange feeling Barry Hearn might pull the Ding Junhui card to give the event a boost. Ding is huge in China, superstar status.

That would be very cool if he did.

Snooker players are a big draw for TV ratings, so it would be a smart move if he could (even if it was only for the initial few years in the same way he used the likes of Higgins, White, Davis etc.).

 

[JAM]

I watched the video that the OP posted (and please keep in mind that I missed the live celebration, so I did not hear everything that was said, but Marcus did say that "this is probably the best team in the world.... ever", and then he starts woofing about how his team will beat any other team in the world. He is not being humble, and his team is not being humble. Him and his team are gloating over their win, and I do not think that is cool. Then the OP fast forwards the video a little, and it shows that older guy in a suit (I do not know who he is, but he sounded British to me), and he said something like "nothing disrespectful to the Americans, but they were not good enough, so I have got to find someone who is". So, more gloating (from this older British guy in a suit, who I do not know the name of), which in my opinion, is really not cool, and uncalled for. And then he goes on to say that he wants to bring in some teams from Asia, because he needs to find a team that will test the European team, because they were really not tested against the USA team. Even if that is true, I do not think it was a nice thing to say, and I do think it was disrespectful to the US team. What I do not understand is that many of the matches were very close, were they not, and the US only lost by 1 or 2 games in many of these matches. And then Jim Wych comes on, and starts saying something like "the people at Matchroom feel that the Americans can't test the European team, the way they could in the Early days of the Mosconi Cup". It is not like the European team beat them 11 straight sets in a row 5 to nothing or anything even close to that type of a beating. Why not show the US team a little respect? I agree with the OP. There is no need for all of the gloating. Why not be a little humble about their win? If Matchroom really feels like the US no longer deserves to compete against a US team, then they should change the name of the Mosconi Cup to something else, because it is in honor of one of the greatest American players of all time, right? Show a little respect to the Americans (at least in memory of Mosconi himself, who was an American). I just really did not like many of the things that were said in the video that the OP showed.

I see your point and understand what you mean.

People say things in the heat of the moment, I guess. I don't think either of them meant any disrespect to the Americans. I know Marcus did not. He's just not like that. He was, rather, giving his own team accolades, but I do not believe he meant to step on America's toes by saying what he said.

 

[dkleather]

Did the European team really play that great though? I seen many shots that really should not have fallen, if they were on good 9 foot tables, with normal rails and normal pockets. I would bet on the best 5 Asian players against the best 5 European players any day. By the way, I am curious how many world cups the European players have won, and how many the Asians have won in the history of the World Cup of pool?

I didn't think the Europeans played great, no. It is the least I have enjoyed a Mosconi cup to view. Bar the last three racks of the last match I did not think it looked like anyone was getting in stroke. I was wondering if it was down to it being a different type of table combined with the huge crowd causing nerves etc.

However, I thought the Americans were much worse. If there was a compilation video of the twenty worst out and out bad shots of the event, I suspect 16 would feature Americans.

As for betting the five best Asian players, it looks like you will get your chance.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

This thread has been approved by the participant ribbon generation....

 

[AlienObserver]

I have never seen that video but I just watched it, and no one said Johnny should be thrown in jail.

His action was over-the-top and uncalled-for and unprofessional and disrespectful, but I think he just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second.

Johnny is old-school. He knows what pool-etiquette is, and I'm sure he regrets his action.

I know it's old-fashioned and conservative but --- you don't celebrate someone else's misfortune, especially when the match isn't complete.

What the actual f**k man??

"His action was over-the-top and uncalled-for and unprofessional and disrespectful, but I think he just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second. "

OH REALLY??
Why this doesn't apply to the persons who said that USA sucks then? They "just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second", so they misspoke...

 

[vjmehra]

What the actual f**k man??

"His action was over-the-top and uncalled-for and unprofessional and disrespectful, but I think he just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second. "

OH REALLY??
Why this doesn't apply to the persons who said that USA sucks then? They "just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second", so they misspoke...

Because no-one said that.

Its difficult to penalise players for something they didn't do.

 

[AlienObserver]

Because no-one said that.

Its difficult to penalise players for something they didn't do.

I know that sir, if you look at the 2nd page of this thread you will find my original response. But the above statement from op just blew my mind, I had to write again just because of the irony.

Op is blinded and unable to realize that nobody said that USA suck, (at least no one in the European Team didn't) and he argues that they are disrespectful, meanwhile when an American player which he idolize does something disrespectful he gives him an excuse and say that it was in the heat of the moment....

 

[vjmehra]

I know that sir, if you look at the 2nd page of this thread you will find my original response. But the above statement from op just blew my mind, I had to write again just because of the irony.

Op is blinded and unable to realize that nobody said that USA suck, (at least no one in the European Team didn't) and he argues that they are disrespectful, meanwhile when an American player which he idolize does something disrespectful he gives him an excuse and say that it was in the heat of the moment....

Apologies! I didn't read your post properly

 

[Cezar Morales]

What the actual f**k man??

"His action was over-the-top and uncalled-for and unprofessional and disrespectful, but I think he just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second. "

OH REALLY??
Why this doesn't apply to the persons who said that USA sucks then? They "just got caught up in the moment and lost control for a second", so they misspoke...

Good lord , i hope O.P n Justin386 never gets to be governor, but again is America , anything can happen right.

Le me translate for you what ya're saying.

When YOUR FELLOW AMERICAN Johnny archer started screaming like a lil ***** after orcollo mis-cued , APPARENTLY its okay BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT IN DA FARKING MOMENT !



But when the american's arses were served in a platter with courtesy by EUROPEANS , the europeans were WRONG to celebrate !

GOSH, so apparently its okay for say, you son to commit rape on a woman because he got CAUGHT IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT or she was too sexily dressed !

But when your daughter gets raped , you castrate n pass the death sentence on that un-relatedman who did it because ITS WRONG !!

PLEASE , am i having comprehension problem ?! im susprised this thread is still going , help me to understand this thread pls guys .

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Seems like some people are too butt hurt to ingest the significance of hearn's words, which loudly and clearly said: America, get your act together - or else!

Seemed reasonable to me and a good place to say it. You are drinking in last chance saloon.

 

[justinb386]

I didn't think the Europeans played great, no. It is the least I have enjoyed a Mosconi cup to view. Bar the last three racks of the last match I did not think it looked like anyone was getting in stroke. I was wondering if it was down to it being a different type of table combined with the huge crowd causing nerves etc.

However, I thought the Americans were much worse. If there was a compilation video of the twenty worst out and out bad shots of the event, I suspect 16 would feature Americans.

As for betting the five best Asian players, it looks like you will get your chance.

I missed the last match, and just watched it today, on youtube. Jayson Shaw really played awesome. I was really impressed. I also watched the end, when I got to hear the full interview with Marcus (the captain), and I thought he actually showed team USA a lot of respect. I do not understand why the OP skipped over the part where he said some really nice words about the US team. I missed a lot of the live coverage of the event, because I do not have a TV, and had to watch the event through my cable internet (which is very fast), but for some reason, every day that I tried to watch the event, it kept getting very blurry, and was hurting my eyes, so I had to turn it off. It is nice that they recorded the matches, and hopefully they will all be posted on youtube. The final match was pretty awesome, just because I was so impressed with Jayson Shaw's playing.

 

[justinb386]

I know that sir, if you look at the 2nd page of this thread you will find my original response. But the above statement from op just blew my mind, I had to write again just because of the irony.

Op is blinded and unable to realize that nobody said that USA suck, (at least no one in the European Team didn't) and he argues that they are disrespectful, meanwhile when an American player which he idolize does something disrespectful he gives him an excuse and say that it was in the heat of the moment....

Yeah, nobody said that the US sucks, and after watching the full interview, I take back what I thought about Markus, because of the nice words he said (that the OP skipped over) about the US team players. I thought it was really cool of him to speak those words about the US team, and I understand that he said what he said about his own team, because he thinks that are the best team in the world (ever). I did not like what the promoter said though (if he was the older guy in the suit).