Bogus Tim Scruggs Cue
- Thread starter nick serdula
- Start date
On a different note, that is a huge bass you got there!
Gawthrop, you got it right. He had some health issues a while ago, hope he is ok. I actually saw him at Champion Billiards in Frederick, MD not too long ago.
All the best,
WW
I've stayed out of this thread so far but want to add something. I know the individual that Nick speaks of that he told to "lose his number", I sold him a Scruggs a few months back which he immediately flipped to Nick.
I had the opportunity to see this cue in question here that "grew a logo" before it had a logo in the parking lot of a hall in Baltimore, the guy had it in his trunk with several other cues & some Ron Thomas cases he was trying to sell.
He asked me to look at it & this is what I saw. The cue was obviously made by someone talented, nice veneer work although the points weren't all even. It appeared to me the inlay work with all the MOP was not original to the cue & had been done fairly recently. The cue had no logo & the guy in question didn't know who had made the cue but said he thought it was a Scruggs. I advised he take it to Bob Frey who is the only person I know to be Authorized by Tim to do repairs & re-logo on Tims cues, he said he was going to take it to him to authenticate.
Now who he took it to or who put the logo on the cue I have no idea but I don't believe it was Bob. I say that because I don't believe it was a Scruggs cue from my inspection of it & I've owned more than a few over the years. JMO/YMMV
I had the opportunity to see this cue in question here that "grew a logo" before it had a logo in the parking lot of a hall in Baltimore, the guy had it in his trunk with several other cues & some Ron Thomas cases he was trying to sell.
He asked me to look at it & this is what I saw. The cue was obviously made by someone talented, nice veneer work although the points weren't all even. It appeared to me the inlay work with all the MOP was not original to the cue & had been done fairly recently. The cue had no logo & the guy in question didn't know who had made the cue but said he thought it was a Scruggs. I advised he take it to Bob Frey who is the only person I know to be Authorized by Tim to do repairs & re-logo on Tims cues, he said he was going to take it to him to authenticate.
Now who he took it to or who put the logo on the cue I have no idea but I don't believe it was Bob. I say that because I don't believe it was a Scruggs cue from my inspection of it & I've owned more than a few over the years. JMO/YMMV
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Oh my, is Nick spreading his falsities about cue history again??? Imagine that. Smh
Trunk dealer alert.... lol
Reality is, to all the refinishers, and cuesmiths... if you refinish a Richard Black, Mottey etc.. and you lose the logo, the best thing you can do, is write a letter, take a picture, keep it all together, hope the seller is legit and do the right thing. Never relogo, or re-sign a cue, its bad form.
Because it will always come back to you.
JV
Reality is, to all the refinishers, and cuesmiths... if you refinish a Richard Black, Mottey etc.. and you lose the logo, the best thing you can do, is write a letter, take a picture, keep it all together, hope the seller is legit and do the right thing. Never relogo, or re-sign a cue, its bad form.
Because it will always come back to you.
JV
I know the guy who bought it from parking lot in Baltimore he is semi local to me and I know his family. I posted this cue up in main forum for cue Identification and got several different answers. I told the new owner of the cue cause I know his girlfriend lives in Baltimore area and frequents there. I was actually on the phone with him when he was typing Bob Frey house address in his GPS and was also on the phone when he arrived at Bob's house. Few hours later he called said it was verified as a,scruggs by Bob and Bob was making new shaft and adding a logo. 2 weeks later he sent pics of cue with logo so although I wasn't there I am pretty sure bob relogo the cue. I also emailed bob cause I own the other box cue which I also posted in main forum I am 99% sure it's a scruggs and is being shipped to BOB to look at tomorrow. That cue was purchased along with a mottey 3 other stamped scruggs cues lambros and a sly and 2 bob frey cues so the guy didn't have any cheap cues in the car.
Bank it curious did u see this unmarked cue from the guy in Baltimore also. I sending it to frey tomorrow but pretty sure it's same guy. Here is cue I have
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I know the guy who bought it from parking lot in Baltimore he is semi local to me and I know his family. I posted this cue up in main forum for cue Identification and got several different answers. I told the new owner of the cue cause I know his girlfriend lives in Baltimore area and frequents there. I was actually on the phone with him when he was typing Bob Frey house address in his GPS and was also on the phone when he arrived at Bob's house. Few hours later he called said it was verified as a,scruggs by Bob and Bob was making new shaft and adding a logo. 2 weeks later he sent pics of cue with logo so although I wasn't there I am pretty sure bob relogo the cue. I also emailed bob cause I own the other box cue which I also posted in main forum I am 99% sure it's a scruggs and is being shipped to BOB to look at tomorrow. That cue was purchased along with a mottey 3 other stamped scruggs cues lambros and a sly and 2 bob frey cues so the guy didn't have any cheap cues in the car.
Bank it curious did u see this unmarked cue from the guy in Baltimore also. I sending it to frey tomorrow but pretty sure it's same guy. Here is cue I have
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No I didn't see this cue. I saw the 1 in question and a Mottey & Lambros & several nice Ron Thomas cases.
As I said in my initial post I know of the guy as I had sold him a Scruggs recently & when he saw me get out of my car he called me over to look at the cue. You're correct in that he doesn't have cheap stuff, he's quite the prolific flipper & has expressed interest in other Scruggs I own.
Hey, at the end of the day if Bob authenticated the cue that's good enough for me, Bob is honest as they come. As I also said in my initial post my reservations about the cue were the inlays as well as the finish, they appeared recently done & just looked "off" to me.
THANKS for clearing this up, i'd be shocked if your cue was anything but a SCRUGGS and will only go up in value because of the materials used when the cue was embellished.
Best, adam
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I remember the cue belonging to a tall bass guitar player from bill and Billies cue club! About 20 years ago and he had two of them. Sold to a local collector. To get the real story cowboy bob or another old school player would have to chime in about the cue and no logo. As I recall that cue is 60 inch monster with the good micartel material that is dangerous.
Kd
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Kd
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uttahere:
Yes sir if you are referring to the box cue u are correct and it must be the cue haha. I never posted anything about it being 60" cue cause I had just found out earlier myself when getting the specs ready for when I sell it.
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Pookie told me Bob hasn't seen the Cue.
Pookie also said Bob can't remember putting a logo on anything in a long time. I know from experience Bob would have remembered doing a logo in the last 10 days.
Also Bob was building Cues with Tim as his partner in 1974 long before 1978 and before that they build for Danny at Joss. Bob told me Bill couldn't build a Cue and didn't know anything about how to build a Cue until Tim and Bob taught him. He also said Bill came real close to having his butt tanned by Bob. Bob hates the man. He isn't alone I have been told.
Everyone can attest to what they know. Well before you knew what you do Tim and Bob were doing what they do. Long before all these dates Bill made Tim his friend and then you people come along. Tony in Md is the only person in here that has half a clue. Problem is he hate my guts for exposing fake SouthWest Cues.
Why? Can't say.
Merry Christmas,
Nick
If you bought this Cue and you think it is a TS Cue good for you.
The seller did sell me a nice Cue and had a couple more. I was offered this Cue for $1000. In Cali they say Pass a deena.
Pookie also said Bob can't remember putting a logo on anything in a long time. I know from experience Bob would have remembered doing a logo in the last 10 days.
Also Bob was building Cues with Tim as his partner in 1974 long before 1978 and before that they build for Danny at Joss. Bob told me Bill couldn't build a Cue and didn't know anything about how to build a Cue until Tim and Bob taught him. He also said Bill came real close to having his butt tanned by Bob. Bob hates the man. He isn't alone I have been told.
Everyone can attest to what they know. Well before you knew what you do Tim and Bob were doing what they do. Long before all these dates Bill made Tim his friend and then you people come along. Tony in Md is the only person in here that has half a clue. Problem is he hate my guts for exposing fake SouthWest Cues.
Why? Can't say.
Merry Christmas,
Nick
If you bought this Cue and you think it is a TS Cue good for you.
The seller did sell me a nice Cue and had a couple more. I was offered this Cue for $1000. In Cali they say Pass a deena.
Pookie also said Bob can't remember putting a logo on anything in a long time. I know from experience Bob would have remembered doing a logo in the last 10 days.
Also Bob was building Cues with Tim as his partner in 1974 long before 1978 and before that they build for Danny at Joss. Bob told me Bill couldn't build a Cue and didn't know anything about how to build a Cue until Tim and Bob taught him. He also said Bill came real close to having his butt tanned by Bob. Bob hates the man.
NOPE, could BOB'S HATRED for BILL motivate him to villify him?
He isn't alone I have been told.
i'm not sure if BILL and TONY (BLACK BOAR) send each other CHRISTMAS CARDS
Everyone can attest to what they know. Well before you knew what you do Tim and Bob were doing what they do. Long before all these dates Bill made Tim his friend and then you people come along. Tony in Md is the only person in here that has half a clue. Problem is he hate my guts for exposing fake SouthWest Cues.
i was at a large local tournament some time ago and a friend showed me a new "SW" he was on the verge of buying, upon close inspection it was obvious that the cue was fake which nixed the deal. At the time the SELLER was a fledgling cue maker (not from the E coast) who is now well known on a national level.
Why? Can't say.
Merry Christmas,
Nick
If you bought this Cue and you think it is a TS Cue good for you.
The seller did sell me a nice Cue and had a couple more. I was offered this Cue for $1000. In Cali they say Pass a deena.
Merry Christmas to YOU and YOURS, adam
This thread is crazy!
My understanding of the cue and situation is that the cue was made with non-ivory material and I (believe) scruggs did not want the cue fetching ivory prices and some one being upset or deceived!!!
The 60 inch cue is very rare request and desired by very tall and large players. Given that, many stayed away from the cue cause of the 60 inches!!!
The material back then was not desire able and scruggs stopped using it for safety reasons!
Timmy cared enough to protect the general public and his good name! He didn't want to be involved in cue fraud and the use of the ivory substitute was a real delimma. So in my opinion that is why he left the logo off!
The original owner was the house man and worked behind the counter for cliff macklin at jack and Jills better known as bill and billies. Jam knows who I am talking about and Reggie barksdale! Any old school player from the Geese and Riggie era with Bobby leggs know what I am saying.
It was taboo to use any other brand cue especially since there was not many cue makers at the time back in the 80's when the cue was made!
Both cues are box cues and mimic the cue of champagne ed kelly a local legend!
The guy ordered them special because he was tall and grabbing the very end of the cue!
One cue collector was the only one interested in 60 inch cues and bought them both when he was selling them around the way!
Jam and tom tom KNOW both of those box cues and who used them regularly as their player!
That is as much of the history I know about the cues!
They were not cash cow
cues but collectors want what they want! Funny these were sold for a song and dance due to lack of interest in 60 inch cues from my recollection.
Kd
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My understanding of the cue and situation is that the cue was made with non-ivory material and I (believe) scruggs did not want the cue fetching ivory prices and some one being upset or deceived!!!
The 60 inch cue is very rare request and desired by very tall and large players. Given that, many stayed away from the cue cause of the 60 inches!!!
The material back then was not desire able and scruggs stopped using it for safety reasons!
Timmy cared enough to protect the general public and his good name! He didn't want to be involved in cue fraud and the use of the ivory substitute was a real delimma. So in my opinion that is why he left the logo off!
The original owner was the house man and worked behind the counter for cliff macklin at jack and Jills better known as bill and billies. Jam knows who I am talking about and Reggie barksdale! Any old school player from the Geese and Riggie era with Bobby leggs know what I am saying.
It was taboo to use any other brand cue especially since there was not many cue makers at the time back in the 80's when the cue was made!
Both cues are box cues and mimic the cue of champagne ed kelly a local legend!
The guy ordered them special because he was tall and grabbing the very end of the cue!
One cue collector was the only one interested in 60 inch cues and bought them both when he was selling them around the way!
Jam and tom tom KNOW both of those box cues and who used them regularly as their player!
That is as much of the history I know about the cues!
They were not cash cow
cues but collectors want what they want! Funny these were sold for a song and dance due to lack of interest in 60 inch cues from my recollection.Kd
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
This thread is crazy!
My understanding of the cue and situation is that the cue was made with non-ivory material and I (believe) scruggs did not want the cue fetching ivory prices and some one being upset or deceived!!!
The 60 inch cue is very rare request and desired by very tall and large players. Given that, many stayed away from the cue cause of the 60 inches!!!
The material back then was not desire able and scruggs stopped using it for safety reasons!
Timmy cared enough to protect the general public and his good name! He didn't want to be involved in cue fraud and the use of the ivory substitute was a real delimma. So in my opinion that is why he left the logo off!
The original owner was the house man and worked behind the counter for cliff macklin at jack and Jills better known as bill and billies. Jam knows who I am talking about and Reggie barksdale! Any old school player from the Geese and Riggie era with Bobby leggs know what I am saying.
It was taboo to use any other brand cue especially since there was not many cue makers at the time back in the 80's when the cue was made!
Both cues are box cues and mimic the cue of champagne ed kelly a local legend!
The guy ordered them special because he was tall and grabbing the very end of the cue!
One cue collector was the only one interested in 60 inch cues and bought them both when he was selling them around the way!
Jam and tom tom KNOW both of those box cues and who used them regularly as their player!
That is as much of the history I know about the cues!
They were not cash cow
Kd
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KD,
All due respect, HoldemRw and i are discussing the cue which Nick stated in the first post (image imbedded) of this thread as being "BOGUS", not Holdem's 60" box cue. MERRY CHRISTMAS, adam