No Safeties Allowed

JeremiahGage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?

I have no problem with that game. I like the idea.

I think there are way too many safeties in today's pool. The one-foul BIH rules have made the game unbearable for me to watch and I think jump cues are an abomination.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I used to play in an 8-ball league that had a "no safeties" rule. It was only the inept old codgers who played the sneaky "oops, I missed, darn it" shots -- the top players actually played by the rule.

Of course at 8-ball the "shoot again" rule doesn't work so well.
 

ronlovespool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?

Giving the shot back works good for 9 ball, but in 8 ball If you didn't have a shot your opponent most likely would.
 

JeremiahGage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course at 8-ball the "shoot again" rule doesn't work so well.

That's true, the "give the shot back" rule works much better for rotation games. I'm not sure what could be done for 8-ball that would reduce the problem, except for just allowing defense :)
 

Ak Guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No safties, baloney

The one and only 8 Ball bar league in my hick town has the no safety, no masse and no jump shot rules They call it "gentlemen's rules". I call it baloney and won't play in it.

Watching grown men acting like they missed while shooting obvious safeties is more then I can stomach. I subbed for a team one night and a guy did it to me and said "no pocket", so I stepped up and shot a no pocket on him several times.

That was my last time for subbing, I have a little pride left and prefer to play honest pool.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?

Not sure why there should be a goal to get rid of safeties, but I do think that if you are playing a called shot game and you miss and accidentally hook someone that the opponent can either give the shot back, or call a push out.

Having a rule where you shoot at everything is silly (except in 7 ball), but if that is a rule, then you should be able to pass on the shot if you are hooked.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure why there should be a goal to get rid of safeties, but I do think that if you are playing a called shot game and you miss and accidentally hook someone that the opponent can either give the shot back, or call a push out.

Having a rule where you shoot at everything is silly (except in 7 ball), but if that is a rule, then you should be able to pass on the shot if you are hooked.

Having a rule where you shoot at everything isn't any sillier than having jump cues and one-foul BIH, if you ask me.

I have nothing against safeties, but the game is becoming too safety-oriented for my tastes.

I think you should call shots and safeties. If you call a shot and miss, the opponent has the opportunity to shoot what you leave or pass the shot back to you. If you call a safety and make a legal shot (not a ball), your opponent has to shoot what you leave.
 

donuteric

always a newbie
Silver Member
I would love to see spot shots instead of BIH.

Safeties ain't that common in 8 ball. For rotation games, I like the OP's idea about having the option to give the shot back.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 

Bca8ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have run across those "gentleman's games" before, IMO best to simply avoid them.
Just an opportunity for conflict, especially if money is involved.

As far as too many safeties in today's game; I would have to disagree.
Safeties/defense is part of the game; they take practice as well as execution to incorporate both sides of the game correctly.
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe in the 90's, a big pro-tourney was run in Vegas with no safeties allow.
Pushout on the break, miss a ball, incoming player has ball-in-hand. I read
that the players liked it, but the promoters didn't.
Most ring games I've played in have the 'give-the-shot-back option. Works well.
Of course, the best way to play 9 ball in ( say it with me)....2 foul pushout!!
I feel that the game that could make it to TV is American Rotation with one
rule change, no safeties allowed. All offense is easy to understand, fast, and allows for some great shot making! Also, I would change the scoring to either 1 point for each ball, or ,2 points for the 1-7, and 1 point for the 8-15. It's harder to run balls when more balls
are on the table and easier when there are less balls to get in the way.
Who knows...but one thing is for sure.....
PUSHOUT FOREVER!
LOL
 

Bank it

Uh Huh, Sounds Legit
Silver Member
I believe in the 90's, a big pro-tourney was run in Vegas with no safeties allow.

Pushout on the break, miss a ball, incoming player has ball-in-hand. I read

that the players liked it, but the promoters didn't.

Most ring games I've played in have the 'give-the-shot-back option. Works well.

Of course, the best way to play 9 ball in ( say it with me)....2 foul pushout!!

I feel that the game that could make it to TV is American Rotation with one

rule change, no safeties allowed. All offense is easy to understand, fast, and allows for some great shot making! Also, I would change the scoring to either 1 point for each ball, or ,2 points for the 1-7, and 1 point for the 8-15. It's harder to run balls when more balls

are on the table and easier when there are less balls to get in the way.

Who knows...but one thing is for sure.....

PUSHOUT FOREVER!

LOL



You were going great then lost me at American Rotation. SMH.
 

DCS_SF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pocket billiards is a game of skill and strategy. Why would you largely take away the latter?

In my experience the only people that get upset about such rules are usually bangers who have no grasp on strategy. I rarely play a safe against those guys anyway as it's usually a bar game.

Safeties are a huge part of the game. they take just as much skill to properly execute as a shot on the pocket and sometimes more. They are fun to play and they are fun to try and get out of. I'll leave them in whenever playing competitively against any serious player.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Safe and youre out

I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?

Not sure it would. I've seen ring games where if you're thought to be shooting safe they just kick you out.

This usually occurs on bank hit the perfect speed to miss and put the cue ball in the middle of a mess.

The same bank slam banked isnt such a problem.

If the guy passes on the shot in a ring game that can be disaster if there are balls on the table that you can make roll. If they roll they have a chance to pocket. If he passes isnt that sort of an intentional safe?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have no problems with safeties just jumping. Outlaw jumping would teach people how to kick AND keep tables in better condition longer. I grew up playing two-shot 9ball and still think its the best way to play(especially for $$).
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
ODD ball or 9ball. In the 60's we played Go for the hit. (Or 2 bad hits was BIH)The next shooter can keep
giving the shot back. No ball in hand. Spot shot on cue scratches.
8ball no BIH. Scratch and a ball comes up. Spot shots on cue scratches.
I miss those days. What went wrong?
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've come across certain rules where I was "not allowed" to play a safety, but who's to say whether a shot I chose was a safety or not? I could "accidentally" miscue or hit a shot so bad that it ends up in a safety. I could argue that I was going for the shot because nobody else knows what my intentions really were. If everyone was honest about their intentions, then there's no problems, but obviously that is a difficult assumption to make.

I've seen this in ring games and in some bar rules. I've witnessed a number of controversies, so I think the rules could be better.

I propose that a good way to essentially eliminate safety play is to allow the incoming player to give the shot back at any time. If there is any intentional or unintentional safety, then the incoming player can give the shot back. Even if the cue ball is not hooked, if the incoming player does not like the shot, then he or she can give it back and make the previous shooter go again.

What do you think of this? Do you think allowing the incoming player to give the shot back will eliminate safety play?

The only time I have a problem with safeties is in a ring game and in that case I agree with being able to give the shot back.
 
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