Diamond systems and going by feel

str8eight

str8eight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ever since I started playing pool I've been infatuated by diamond systems. It's the main reason I came out with the shot journal. I cataloged every little system I learned. Even as a shitty player who would be lucky to run 3 balls, I could kick like a beast. I realized that everyone at my local pool hall was kicking and banking by feel but I hadn't been paying long enough to see those angles naturally. A couple of years later I am getting to where I may use a system for reference but in the end if it doesn't feel right I'll adjust. I used to scoff at the idea of kicking by feel because I felt like it was lazy. I still think learning all the diamond systems you can will benefit you in the end though. What do you think?

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To a degree I would agree, but if your aim is such that you miss cut shots then your kicks and banks will miss by the same error, actually multiplied every time you hit a rail.
 
I think varies by individual.

To me it's qualitative understanding versus quantitative.

In medicine I teach this in diagnostics. All too often people rely on quantitative understanding at the expense of qualitative. In medicine that leads to diagnosis "by numbers" (labs) rather than the history and physical findings...which is wrong. Doctors are not supposed to diagnose with labs.

In the current discussion, "feel" or "intuition" relies on a qualitative understanding of how the balls will behave when the cue interacts with the CB, when the CB interacts with the object ball, and how the CB or object ball will interact with the cushion.

IMHO the qualitative understanding is imperative and the underpinning of even using the quantitative methods.

The relative value of the quantitative method will vary from individual to individual based in part on how strong their qualitative understanding might be.

Sometimes people really don't "get it" so they will need to apply quantitative methods early in order to guide their understanding to build their "feel" or "intuition". Others have a stronger qualitative understanding up front and the quantitative method can be added to help polish that or reinforce it.

That's how I see it anyway.


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I use the diamonds religiously for kicking. I rarely jump because most of the time I am comfortable and successful at kicking. I do make fine adjustments by "feel", I will more often than not use my diamond location as my aim point and any adjustment I make will be with the use of english. I learned Pro1 which I also use for banks in favor of the diamond system, once again any adjustments I make are done with spin.
 
str8eight said:
Ever since I started playing pool I've been infatuated by diamond systems. It's the main reason I came out with the shot journal. I cataloged every little system I learned. Even as a shitty player who would be lucky to run 3 balls, I could kick like a beast. I realized that everyone at my local pool hall was kicking and banking by feel but I hadn't been paying long enough to see those angles naturally. A couple of years later I am getting to where I may use a system for reference but in the end if it doesn't feel right I'll adjust. I used to scoff at the idea of kicking by feel because I felt like it was lazy. I still think learning all the diamond systems you can will benefit you in the end though. What do you think?

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Click to expand...

i agree 100% with your post
i am a systems guy
but with time on the table i trust my instincts
i think the systems shortened the learning curve for me when it came to kicking and position play
 
Depending on the kicking situation, I selectively use the following systems:
1) The Zero-X video lessons for 1, 2, and 3 rail kicks:
http://www.zerox-billiards.com/pool-lessons-kicking-tips-secrets-of-pool.html
2) When object ball is close to rail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph_OdjFWnD4&feature=youtu.be
3) Two-rail kicks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voX0Mh7feWM
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showinstruction.php?id=105
3) One-rail kicks:
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showinstruction.php?id=103
4) Three-rail kicks (Spot on the wall system)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp2VuwN5Tkw&index=8&list=PLSdlfdk6zG-rru2CB4H0Qty8u078N-bLl
 
I'm no pro, but I think systems are to get you close when you are clueless in rare circumstances like getting a hit out of a great safe. Otherwise there's too many variables that are lumped into the category of feel. So my official stance on this would be: systems=yes Feel=yes You need both
 
Diamond System - A Reliable Tool For 1,2 & 3 Rail Kicks.

Gosh, I think of the Diamond System as a really quick compass, sort of a guide, on where to figure
out exactly where I need to hit the long or short rail. For long rail banks, it is really dead on, as much
as so for one rail banks too. And you are playing to pocket the object ball, not just contact it so the end
result is when you miss, you usually still made contact with the object ball thus avoiding a foul.

For 3 rail kicks, there's a lot more judgement on where you strike the first rail and the Diamond
System helps me quickly zero in on the target location on the rail. Obviously sometimes the cue
ball's path might be blocked for a normal roll shot and English might be needed. Even if it isn't,
determining where to strike the first rail is still a chore no matter how you slice the loaf. Remember
that the Diamond System is just a guide and tables can play differently based upon the cloth,
the room conditions, the rails, the pool balls (especially when the cue ball is not the same weight as
the object ball), etc. There's a lot of variables and the Diamond System is an aid to quickly sight
in the first rail kick point for single, two & three rail kick shots. It's better than memorizing tracks.
Regardless, the player still has to exercise judgement on determining where to strike the first rail.



Matt B.
 
imo, and in my experience, KAMB (kick a million balls) like HAMB (hit a million balls) is what's going to get you to the promised land. Or, to whatever your personal best is likely going to be.

There are shortcuts to both shotmaking and kicking successfully but generally speaking and, again, imo, you really have to spend a lot of time at the table picking up all the nuance and feel for kicking. Shortening, lengthening, bending, spinning into, spinning out of, kick & stick, etc etc...

The best kicking "system" I have seen that will get you in the neighborhood is L'il Joe V's clock system. But like any other system, you will have to refine it by going to KAMB school. :)

best,
brian kc
 
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That's about how I'd put it too... a system can occasionally get you a good hit
in situations where you have no idea. And in situations where you're supposed to get a good hit,
sometimes you can make a ball.

But there will always be shots that fall outside your system, and that's where I'm kind of
jealous of the guys who have been feel-kicking their whole lives. They can get a hit there
whereas I'm likely to miss by a mile.

And yeah, I don't always trust the system's result and adjust by feel... however lately
what I've been finding is, I make the adjustment and then miss, where I would have gotten
a good hit if I'd just trusted it.
 
I use the diamonds fairly often. Once you know how the table plays (long or short, or "on") you can be pretty darn accurate using them. I play a lot of one hole, so it comes in handy when your opponent has a ball close to the hole and you are behind the stack.
 
David Matlock is not only a bar-box legend but also a very sporty 3c player. In fact his high-run is something like 17-18pts. Anyway, i asked him this question a few years back and he said the feel(guesser) players will do ok up to a point. But, he added that under serious heat the system guys will be more successful. Folks the table dimensions(2-to-1) don't change. Cloth,dirt, humidity will change your aim some but the systems are still on.
 
My first practice shots at a table are kick shots to see how the rails respond. One-rail kicks off each rail; then a couple of the standard 3-rail kicks.
 
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