the sad atate of pool in America

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are 2 contributing factors to what I se is wrong with pool in America. There are undoubtedly more factors though.

One is what I call ....the dumbing down factor. Over the years rules have been changed to make it easier to run out. I am no history expert on why or when those rules were put in place but they have had a negative affect as evidenced in our losses in mosconi cup over the last few years.

I am amazed at peoples attitude where they say.....yea but let them come to America and play with one on the spot...winner break...rack your own ...race to 100 for xxxx dollars ..... Tight pockets on a diamond table and we will show them who is best at pool.

Even if an American does win under those conditions it does not prove he is the bed cueiat..it proves he is a one trick pony. American players have this format down to a science where its just break...connect the dots and you are out. As a result your cueing form and thought process suffers.

8 ball in America is the same way with rule changes to make the game easier. Open table ...bih any where after a scratch on the break takes away kicking...banking....caroming and just all around creative shot making.

Due to the above factors Americans cannot go overseas and be competitive with Europeans and Asians and yet they came come to America and be competitive under our easier format.

The second problem I see is the me first attitude with American players. So many players are rude....obnoxious ..egotistical etc. Etc..especially amateurs. Yea a few Europeans are too but its predominant in America.

Plus being cheap ass pool players to boot.

I was amazed to read robins warehouse thread and saw where league players in her area get free table time. Then flabbergasted to read other areas get a free drink and free table time. It does not take a rocks scientist to figure out why pool halls are closing.

Chandley built his version of ...field of dreams.....nobody came....and the league players in that area expected free table time also?

In my area no one plays for free. There is one pool hall that provides free practice time ..provides a roll over quarters when he closes the tank for league but opens them back up after league is over.

I just happened to move my team from that pool hall to another one that does not provide those benefits. I received a couple of questionable looks from a few team mates but no complaints. I did it for various reasons with one being the intention of helping another pool hall out at a greater cost to me and my team mates. Ludicrous huh ? I am just a broke ass old man who lives pay check to pay check but i dont want to see a pool hall struggle in my area when I can help establish a new division in his pool hall .

I dont know what its gonna take to turn around the sad state of pool in america but making the game easier and having a me first attitude definitely is not the solution.
 
yep it stinks

rude....obnoxious ..egotistical etc. Etc..especially amateurs

that part , i dont know why they are like this
 
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Support your local karate instructor!

Support your localr cello scene!

Support your comic book shop!

Support your local birdwatcher!

Support your local tennis player!

Support your local oil painter!

Pool is fine, it is a recreational pursuit.
 
ESPN killed pool along with only televising Trcik shot magic and the WPA.

Its like if they only televised college golf, instead of the (hold on commercial)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> masters.
 
I bet Rex-kwon-do is doing great these days seeing as how the UFC is such a hit and more people are into self-defense than ever. Maybe we can learn from Rex, he's not a failure because he goes home to Starla every night. Forget about it!!


Neil
 
the only way you'll save pool in the US is to make table time free for about 10 years
 
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ill tell you I have been playing pool for over 30 yrs hanging out at a skating ring enjoying this game more and more. when I was in my 20's pool was something. didn't matter what pool hall you went into here in Louisville, there was someone always playing and gambling. ring games going every night. for a beginner that was just learning the right way to play, it was so exciting. all I thought about was getting off work to go to pool hall and play.
but these days you don't see that anymore at all. everyone wants to do the leagues. if you was to get good at pool thru playing leagues and practicing, you wasn't able to play in certain tournaments because your too good. in my time, you wanted to play the good players so you could learn, you wasn't going to beat them but what you learned was so worth it. this is what has happen to pool, everyone wants something instead of just enjoying it and learning. you don't see the young kids in there learning talking to the good playing asking questions.
my opinion is it will never get better at all. and its sad that I have to say that with me loving pool like I do
 
To me it's a very simple problem. It's not dumbing down, it's watering down. In other countries, you strive to be the best in pool. If you can't beat the best, you don't belong. There's no weight given, no excuses made, and you practice. In America, it's about participation. It's about giving spot, making it "fair", make the tables easier, etc. There is no incentive to be a professional or train because you're penalized for that, not rewarded.

There's nothing wrong with having a culture of participation. You just have to readjust your expectations because you're not going to be able to keep up with people pursuing excellence if you just want to participate.
 
Black-Balled said:
Support your local karate instructor!

Support your localr cello scene!

Support your comic book shop!

Support your local birdwatcher!

Support your local tennis player!

Support your local oil painter!

Pool is fine, it is a recreational pursuit.
Click to expand...

While this was done in jest I'm sure, there are good points there. For example, local bake shop vs Dunkins. I went to one every week with my kids, then it closed about a month before a new Dunkins opened up, and that place is always busy. Yet that local run bakery never had 1/10th the business, and they also served coffee and sandwiches with bacon. Sad how that is.

I also make sure my kids know to tip properly and have respect for servers and workers, we don't leave our cups at the tables at the pool hall just because there is someone there to clean up after us, we put away house cues, chalk, balls, even after others that leave them there. If they are too busy with other customers, I go in the back and make my own coffee to help them (of course this type of thing depends on how well you are known in the room LOL), same thing for helping the kids during junior league.

Even if not really needed, I usually order something at the pool hall, and explain to my kids why we do that.

Respect for others is where it all starts, and from what I see that is lacking in too many places, especially in the US. To see that, just look at all the cigarette butts, scratch ticket, general trash that gets tossed into the street, that is the start of it all right there. If you can do all that, you won't respect anyone.
 
Carolina_Giant said:
To me it's a very simple problem. It's not dumbing down, it's watering down. In other countries, you strive to be the best in pool. If you can't beat the best, you don't belong. There's no weight given, no excuses made, and you practice. In America, it's about participation. It's about giving spot, making it "fair", make the tables easier, etc. There is no incentive to be a professional or train because you're penalized for that, not rewarded.

There's nothing wrong with having a culture of participation. You just have to readjust your expectations because you're not going to be able to keep up with people pursuing excellence if you just want to participate.
Click to expand...

Seems to work fine in golf. I think the bigger issue is no pool promoter other than Barry Hearn has figured out a way to market the game to a larger viewing audience.
 
lorider said:
I was amazed to read robins warehouse thread and saw where league players in her area get free table time. Then flabbergasted to read other areas get a free drink and free table time. It does not take a rocks scientist to figure out why pool halls are closing.

Chandley built his version of ...field of dreams.....nobody came....and the league players in that area expected free table time also?

In my area no one plays for free. There is one pool hall that provides free practice time ..provides a roll over quarters when he closes the tank for league but opens them back up after league is over.

I just happened to move my team from that pool hall to another one that does not provide those benefits. I received a couple of questionable looks from a few team mates but no complaints. I did it for various reasons with one being the intention of helping another pool hall out at a greater cost to me and my team mates. Ludicrous huh ? I am just a broke ass old man who lives pay check to pay check but i dont want to see a pool hall struggle in my area when I can help establish a new division in his pool hall .
Click to expand...

The pool hall I play league out of gives you a rack of balls and a table to practice on before league starts. This pool hall utilizes 16 tables for league play five nights a week and twice on Sunday. That's 8 players X 16 teams for a total of 128 players (per league). That's 128 players that most of them are buying food and beer/mixed drinks. Leagues are full every night, every session. Do you actually think that pool hall is going out of business or doing pool a disservice for allowing free practice?

No pool hall stays open because of profits made on table time. There are many underlying factors which we never see as to why a room is successful or not. I once played out of a bar that gave a complimentary drink to each league member that showed up for that particular night. What I found out later was the owner/operator of said bar had a habit of shady business practices that helped her recoup the costs of the free drinks.

Getting back to the pool hall I play in: It is one of the healthiest and busiest rooms in the area and is in NO danger of closing its doors. Free table time is not a threat to this room. They get $5 green fees per team/per night. They make their $$$ on food & drinks, and thank goodness there are plenty of them....128-a-night of them (not counting non-league customers) eating and drinking.

Lots of drinkers down here in Texas with deep pockets when it comes to their beer and alcohol.

I agree that pool is in the shitter, but I disagree with your opinion that free table time has anything to do with it.

Maniac (tips the wait staff even if he doesn't drink....diabetes and 9 different medications doesn't allow me to anymore)
 
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lorider said:
There are 2 contributing factors to what I se is wrong with pool in America. There are undoubtedly more factors though.

I am amazed at peoples attitude where they say.....yea but let them come to America and play with one on the spot...winner break...rack your own ...race to 100 for xxxx dollars ..... Tight pockets on a diamond table and we will show them who is best at pool.
Click to expand...

Right? I've heard that plenty of times where people list off conditions that would help them win.

Being a champion is very simple... winners win. Doesn't matter the time, the table, the crowd, the noise. Just win.
 
Can't agree with a lot of this. Here's a place that gives free table time to league players
(not every single day) and it's PACKED.

http://i.imgur.com/CqAmhMl.jpg

Oh yeah, and this is APA... a handicapped league... you know, for all those hypothetical future world champions
whose pool careers were derailed by sissy millennial handicapping and participation awards.

The room is maxed out for teams in 8b and 9b. Meanwhile the non-handicapped leagues are like...
6 dudes shooting in a corner.

Pool halls are like any other business, you need a decent location and competent people running it.
I've seen pool halls die and it bums me out, but in every case the room had problems -
no advertising, bad location, not enough extras.

As for the game getting dumbed down and made easier, I don't buy it. You're referring to casual
and league 8b games, but at the pro level the trend is different.

• Almost entirely rotation games in tournaments, which are tougher than 8b.

• Trend is definitely towards tighter pockets.

• 10-ball replaced 9b for a lot of events.

• 9b break requirements get more strict every year. 9 on the snap removed,
balls must pass the headstring, no breaking from the side rails, 9 racked on the spot.

• Faster cloth... people try to claim this is easier. It's harder. You can't hold balls as easily
and are routinely forced to play longer routes, and small errors in speed control are magnified.

• Magic racks etc... they remove a lot of the luck from breaking, which almost by definition makes it more about skill.
Sure, everyone can make a ball on the break with it, but that means you need to outplay your opponent,
because he isn't going to just come up dry and hand over the table for free.
The best breakers still dominate - SVB is playing 6 ball while the rest of the field has to run 9.

• Along the same lines, jump cues make getting out of a safe easier but they make safing someone a lot harder.
Hooking them 6 inches behind a ball used to be fine, now it's a sellout if the OB is within a diamond of the hole.

I gotta agree our pro scene could use a shot in the arm, but again I think it's down to good competent people running it,
it's nothing to do with modern rules or handicapped leagues or whatever. You could make a case that the phillippines
have a higher skill level than us because they play a tougher game, but when europe trounces us in the MC,
they're playing a game that every american pro has played for thousands of hours.
 
What are they doing in that place? Kkk meeting.?

CreeDo said:
Can't agree with a lot of this. Here's a place that gives free table time to league players
(not every single day) and it's PACKED.

http://i.imgur.com/CqAmhMl.jpg

Oh yeah, and this is APA... a handicapped league... you know, for all those hypothetical future world champions
whose pool careers were derailed by sissy millennial handicapping and participation awards.

The room is maxed out for teams in 8b and 9b. Meanwhile the non-handicapped leagues are like...
6 dudes shooting in a corner.

Pool halls are like any other business, you need a decent location and competent people running it.
I've seen pool halls die and it bums me out, but in every case the room had problems -
no advertising, bad location, not enough extras.

As for the game getting dumbed down and made easier, I don't buy it. You're referring to casual
and league 8b games, but at the pro level the trend is different.

• Almost entirely rotation games in tournaments, which are tougher than 8b.

• Trend is definitely towards tighter pockets.

• 10-ball replaced 9b for a lot of events.

• 9b break requirements get more strict every year. 9 on the snap removed,
balls must pass the headstring, no breaking from the side rails, 9 racked on the spot.

• Faster cloth... people try to claim this is easier. It's harder. You can't hold balls as easily
and are routinely forced to play longer routes, and small errors in speed control are magnified.

• Magic racks etc... they remove a lot of the luck from breaking, which almost by definition makes it more about skill.
Sure, everyone can make a ball on the break with it, but that means you need to outplay your opponent,
because he isn't going to just come up dry and hand over the table for free.
The best breakers still dominate - SVB is playing 6 ball while the rest of the field has to run 9.

• Along the same lines, jump cues make getting out of a safe easier but they make safing someone a lot harder.
Hooking them 6 inches behind a ball used to be fine, now it's a sellout if the OB is within a diamond of the hole.

I gotta agree our pro scene could use a shot in the arm, but again I think it's down to good competent people running it,
it's nothing to do with modern rules or handicapped leagues or whatever. You could make a case that the phillippines
have a higher skill level than us because they play a tougher game, but when europe trounces us in the MC,
they're playing a game that every american pro has played for thousands of hours.
Click to expand...
 
theluckfactor said:
ESPN killed pool along with only televising Trcik shot magic and the WPA.

Its like if they only televised college golf, instead of the (hold on commercial)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> masters.
Click to expand...
ESPN as put pool on at many levels long before trick shots and if it was even remotely popular they would put it on more plain and simple, they could really care less what game or sport they put on they have one goal and one goal only to put on the tv that brings the most viewers , pool simply has never done it , the fact is if they put on a corn hole turney it would blow any pool numbers completely out of the water so bad it would create another Niagara Falls
Is what it is

1
 
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