Question for players that play with a really hard tip.

[qbilder]

Eric, you don't need to waste energy defending anything about your cues. You've earned your great reputation for a reason.

Thanks I wasn't really defending anything, though. It was mostly raising my hand to make him aware that he was going too far off base, to the point of absurdity. I'm sure the tips he sells are fine tips. He may even have the opinion that WB's aren't suitable for shooting. But knocking another product isn't the best way to promote your own.

 

[SARDiver]

The negativity in these threads make it hard to bare, and is senseless. The OP may very well be everything folks say he is, or he may be none of it. Doesn't matter. If the thread can discuss something of value, then the topic was worth discussing. It's a public pool forum where anybody & everybody can converse all things pool. Why should a guy be excluded or his questions be discredited because somebody doesn't like him? He may very well be bringing up the exact topic somebody else wants to discuss but doesn't because they see how others get treated. Inviting a discussion on hard tips in a public internet forum is harmless. For what possible reason could there be to personally attack, belittle, and ridicule a guy for it?

At the risk of giving this more life...

Justin poses questions that could be answered through common sense or with a quick search of the boards. He basically answered this one as he posed the question.

People make comments about his posts for the same reason that others called me out for my inappropriate post...it's a method of peer policing.

He asks question after question after question that if he'd taken a moment to research, would have been answered. Why people take them seriously is beyond me. Harmless? Yeah, but also insipid. Asking if one can determine the straightness of a cue by looking down it? AYFKM? I suppose there might be a way to determine the straightness of a cue using a system of spinning mirrors, or perhaps a laser.

I let my impatience with someone who is either lazy or an attention seeker get the better of me, and I'm not really proud of snapping at AK Guy. For that I have apologized publicly and via PM. And if I thought justin was a mental defect, I would not react this way. However, I think he's simply someone who doesn't mind wasting the time of others who believe he's sincere and honestly seeking information.

I can't wait for his thread asking why we all shoot with the pointy end of the cue, rather than the butt end.

 

[JC]

In the future, if a question about anything pool related comes to mind, I will just keep it to myself, or maybe post on facebook.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

JC

 

[JC]

I use a Triangle tip that has been hard pressed first. I actually find the opposite of what the OP states. Not only does the hard tip take english exceptionally well, I find it easier to control that english. I shape my tip about every other week with the Last4Ever tip tool.
One pass does the trick. I do not even own a tip pick. I think the layered tips are just hype at $40 bucks a pop. Triangles are a buck apiece. Wimpy and the rest of the old timers never played with layered tips and they played just fine.
I think miscuing has nothing to do with hardness. Most people miscue because they forget to chalk often enough, their bridge is not level, or they slightly come up out of the shot.

It's not just about miscuing. I believe some tips are better for some strokes.

Last Thursday I broke my shaft at the joint with an accident. Friday I was playing in a tournament and thought no big deal because I had an identical shaft to use. In 4 matches I came up short on my draw 5 or 6 times. Stopped behind a ball I needed to draw clear of a ball width or two and such. Almost cost me a match @ hill hill when I failed to draw out for my next to last ball in the same pocket. I knew my draw was off but couldn't understand why because I was hitting them good that day.

Later only after I was back home I realized the other shaft had a triangle tip on it and the one I broke had a sniper. It was a sort of blind test because I didn't realize what had changed when it was happening to me.

More advance players seem to be able to play with hard tips in my observations. All strokes are not equal and softer tips can help compensate.

JC

 

[Johnny Rosato]

It's not just about miscuing. I believe some tips are better for some strokes.

Last Thursday I broke my shaft at the joint with an accident. Friday I was playing in a tournament and thought no big deal because I had an identical shaft to use. In 4 matches I came up short on my draw 5 or 6 times. Stopped behind a ball I needed to draw clear of a ball width or two and such. Almost cost me a match @ hill hill when I failed to draw out for my next to last ball in the same pocket. I knew my draw was off but couldn't understand why because I was hitting them good that day.

Later only after I was back home I realized the other shaft had a triangle tip on it and the one I broke had a sniper. It was a sort of blind test because I didn't realize what had changed when it was happening to me.

More advance players seem to be able to play with hard tips in my observations. All strokes are not equal and softer tips can help compensate.

JC

Could you not tell, at a glance, the Sniper from the Triangle? When you're chalking, do you ever look at you're tip to make sure it's in good shape? And you went through a complete tourny? WOW

 

[philly]

It's not just about miscuing. I believe some tips are better for some strokes.

Last Thursday I broke my shaft at the joint with an accident. Friday I was playing in a tournament and thought no big deal because I had an identical shaft to use. In 4 matches I came up short on my draw 5 or 6 times. Stopped behind a ball I needed to draw clear of a ball width or two and such. Almost cost me a match @ hill hill when I failed to draw out for my next to last ball in the same pocket. I knew my draw was off but couldn't understand why because I was hitting them good that day.

Later only after I was back home I realized the other shaft had a triangle tip on it and the one I broke had a sniper. It was a sort of blind test because I didn't realize what had changed when it was happening to me.

More advance players seem to be able to play with hard tips in my observations. All strokes are not equal and softer tips can help compensate.

JC

Both of my playing shafts are identical from taper to the same tip. Hard pressed Triangles. I rotate the shafts. One session #1 shaft, next session #2 shaft. I know what you mean. Even though they are exact they feel a little bit different but because they are almost identical, I can adjust pretty easy. Sometime it's mental too. I seem to be more comfortable with my #1 shaft as the tip on it is not as high.

 

[JC]

Could you not tell, at a glance, the Sniper from the Triangle? When you're chalking, do you ever look at you're tip to make sure it's in good shape? And you went through a complete tourny? WOW

The tip was in fine shape, I just forgot it was a triangle. And it played just a bit different I realized too late. I scuffed it and played pool.

I was stuck with it Friday as I had just broken my shaft the night before in league play. I changed it that night as I was still alive on Saturday having won all 4 on Friday in spite of the tip. It played much better on Saturday where I proceeded to lose my next two matches. :frown:

JC

 

[fastone371]

Okay, I guess I already pretty much had a good idea about the answer to my own question, but I was still curious to hear opinions from others, who like to use hard tips. This is a forum, is it not? Is this not a place where players come to ask questions, and share their experiences (about tips for example)?

You should not have a problem using 2 tips of english with a hard tip. I use harder tips for the feel and also because I dont need to shape them very often. I can easily use 1 tip of english with my phenolic tipped break cue which is much harder than a leather tip. As far as scuffing just scuff it when chalk wont adhere.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You should not have a problem using 2 tips of english with a hard tip. I use harder tips for the feel and also because I dont need to shape them very often. I can easily use 1 tip of english with my phenolic tipped break cue which is much harder than a leather tip. As far as scuffing just scuff it when chalk wont adhere.

2 tips of English ?
Is that even possible?
The ball is only 1 1/8 from the center.
The tip is about 1/2 an inch.

 

[justinb386]

You should not have a problem using 2 tips of english with a hard tip. I use harder tips for the feel and also because I dont need to shape them very often. I can easily use 1 tip of english with my phenolic tipped break cue which is much harder than a leather tip. As far as scuffing just scuff it when chalk wont adhere.

Yeah, I think that I was mis cuing because I did not have a scuffer, and I did not have any good quality chalk to use.

 

[justinb386]

2 tips of English ?
Is that even possible?
The ball is only 1 1/8 from the center.
The tip is about 1/2 an inch.

Yeah, you are right. The tip is about 1/2 an inch wide, which converts to 12.7mm. I used to shoot with like a 10mm tip when I was a kid (on a JCC Jackson cue I played with for years), and always put extreme amounts of English on most of my shots. So with a much smaller tip (at like 9 or 10 mm), there might be enough room for like 3 tip lengths throughout the cue ball.

 

[louieatienza]

I just had this Water Buffalo tip installed on my cue (because I really needed a tip on my cue, and I thought I would try out a hard tip for once), and the thing is hard as a rock.

I can play okay with it, but I find it hard to use much English on the cue ball, because it feels as if I am mis cuing.

My question is, do you need to scuff the tip very often with hard tips, in order to get chalk to hold on the tip very well?

Does a tip tapper help much with hard tips?

I just want to be able to apply some English to the cue ball without feeling like I am going to mis cue.

I am just curious to know how players are able to comfortably use a really hard tip (like a Water Buffalo for example).

Thank you very much for any suggestions, about how I can comfortably play with this hard tip, without feeling like I am going to mis cue when ever using any kind of excessive amount of English.

I play medium and hard tips. I find when I miscue, it is more my error than because of tip hardness. When I played more, a long time ago, I actually preferred a smooth tip. I'd say most of the time when I miscue, it is because my stroke was not straight for whatever reason.

There's an old demonstration of Bert Kinister and a student, where Bert tells his student to chalk up and place the tip on the ball while Bert held the ball. He then told the student to push the cue toward him with good force. Bert then rotated the cue ball, and the tip stayed on the ball for a lot longer than the student (or I) ever expected. If you can bridge your cue and chalk up and stroke that it moves in a straight line through the ball, it will grip that cue ball. You have to practice it with a soft stroke at first.

You also only need a coating of chalk on the tip for it to work. Slathering it on like Tammi Fae Bakkar, or as if you were grating cheese on your pasta, does not help, and probably hurts.

 

[louieatienza]

2 tips of English ?
Is that even possible?
The ball is only 1 1/8 from the center.
The tip is about 1/2 an inch.

The contact point is NOT on the center of the tip at the outer parts of the ball, so even if it appears you have moved the tip 2 tip widths in one direction, it's actually being contacted by closer to the "inside" edge of the tip.

 

[justinb386]

I play medium and hard tips. I find when I miscue, it is more my error than because of tip hardness. When I played more, a long time ago, I actually preferred a smooth tip. I'd say most of the time when I miscue, it is because my stroke was not straight for whatever reason.

There's an old demonstration of Bert Kinister and a student, where Bert tells his student to chalk up and place the tip on the ball while Bert held the ball. He then told the student to push the cue toward him with good force. Bert then rotated the cue ball, and the tip stayed on the ball for a lot longer than the student (or I) ever expected. If you can bridge your cue and chalk up and stroke that it moves in a straight line through the ball, it will grip that cue ball. You have to practice it with a soft stroke at first.

You also only need a coating of chalk on the tip for it to work. Slathering it on like Tammi Fae Bakkar, or as if you were grating cheese on your pasta, does not help, and probably hurts.

Thanks for the info. I was not actually mis cuing. It just felt as if I could easily mis cue, because the tip was so hard, and because of the sound it made upon impact with the cue ball. I just hate that loud noise the tip makes (with a hard tip). I assume that all hard tips make that noise, and have that similar type of feel upon impact with the cue ball. I never actually mis cued though. The sound and feel of the hit just made me nervous about mis cuing.

 

[louieatienza]

Thanks for the info. I was not actually mis cuing. It just felt as if I could easily mis cue, because the tip was so hard, and because of the sound it made upon impact with the cue ball. I just hate that loud noise the tip makes (with a hard tip). I assume that all hard tips make that noise, and have that similar type of feel upon impact with the cue ball. I never actually mis cued though. The sound and feel of the hit just made me nervous about mis cuing.

It's not hard. Get on a table. Hit some shots, moving farther and farther to the edge of the cueball until you miscue. You've found the limit. It's not like you're going to fall off a tightrope and die! And if you're playing for stakes, you don't need to hit extreme English; and you'd better off play safe in most cases.

 

[fastone371]

2 tips of English ?
Is that even possible?
The ball is only 1 1/8 from the center.
The tip is about 1/2 an inch.

I think thats what most people say the max is before miscueing. I dont care what the actual amount is, but 2 tips is about the max I can use before a miscue. It may actually only be a half tip but its a number that I use that differentiates 1/2 from 1 and 1 1/2 and 2 tips. Im not accurate enought to worry about 1/4 tips, probably not 1/3 tips either but my method is working for me. :smile:

 

[PDX]

I use water buffalo tips on one of my cues. Bob Runde uses them on his shafts unless otherwise specified, which is where I first tried them. You should try them for a few weeks.