RED BULL as a sponsor for pool.

Whether it be in pool or anything else, progress is dependent on good decision making, and good decision making is dependent on being able to recognize and accept truths no matter how ugly we may find those truths to be, and then having the ability to deal with reality no matter how much we may hate the reality. (On a side note, if everybody was actually capable of doing this we would only have one political party but a large portion of people simply aren’t and never will be capable of doing this).

Sponsors are worried about three basic things:
1. Will I get a good return on my dollars spent?
2. Even if I can get a positive return on my dollars, is there another area with another group of people where I can get an even better return?
3. Will my association with this sport or group cause damage to my company or brand?

Let’s break these down. “Will I get a good return on my dollars spent?” This depends mostly on not just how many people the sponsor can reach, but on how many people they can reach that are likely to use the type of product or service they sell (likely to use it because they will have use for it, they will enjoy it, they can afford it, etc). When people talk about all these “millions of pool players” it is the dumbest thing ever. First off, the vast majority of those aren’t “pool players” at all. They are people that take a date to a pool hall once or twice a year, or that go with coworkers once or twice a year to drink and socialize.

But regardless of how many there are, how many can you actually reach? About the most I can think of is 5,000-10,000 at one of the yearly national league events. Aside from that about the most you can reach is about 1,000 of them in the best free live streams, or maybe a few thousand in a couple of the online or print billiard publications. Do you really think some big national brand like Red Bull needs or wants to market to 10,000 people at best? It isn’t worth their time or money. The truth of the matter is that there really isn’t a ton of pool players, there are even fewer that get together all in one place to compete, and fewer yet that want to watch pool whether on TV or a stream or anywhere else. The fact of the matter is that pool is a fringe sport to begin with (and that is being kind if we are honest), and that most people can’t stand to watch--even most of those that like to participate in it. We may hate all that, but it’s still the truth. Sponsors can easily reach far more people by targeting other groups or sports.

Let’s say Red Bull has a 10% profit margin. Let’s say they put up $10,000 to sponsor the APA Nationals in Vegas. Out of the 10,000 people at nationals, they have to get $100,000 of business because of their sponsorship just to break even (because they only have a 10% profit margin). Out of the 10,000 players at APA Nationals, how many do you think actually become consistent Red Bull drinkers just because Red Bull sponsored the event? I would guess they probably get a few hundred to try it once or twice that wouldn’t have otherwise, and maybe 20 that become consistent Red Bull customers that never would have otherwise. Think that a couple hundred one time purchases and then the ongoing purchases from 20 people adds up to $100,000 worth of business? Fat chance. Even a measly $10,000 investment wouldn’t even begin to be worth it to Red Bull. It would mostly be lost money. They aren’t in business to throw away money.

So problem 1 is that you can’t reach very many pool players to begin with. Problem 2 is what percentage of those that you can reach are actually likely to use your product? As a group pool players don’t tend to have a lot of disposable income so that isn’t particularly appealing to any potential sponsor no matter who the sponsor is. And pool these days tends to be an older demographic, which isn’t the demographic that tends to use say energy drinks. Nor is pool a sport that really requires lots of energy, so again, an energy drink just isn’t that great of a fit.

Whoever sponsors or advertises in pool needs to be a product or service that tends to be used by older out of shape people that don’t have much disposable income. What fits that bill? Almost nothing does, and hence another major problem. About the only things that pool players make a good market for are pool products/services for obvious reasons, and cigarettes and alcohol as they tend to like to smoke and drink more than the average population. All of which kind of addresses question number 2 above, and the answer is that sponsors can almost always find a better return on their dollar somewhere else no matter what the product.

Then comes #3, “will the association with pool hurt their brand”. Let’s face it, pool is full of sleazy people, low lifes, people with criminal records, drug users, etc, all far more than is average for the rest of the population. And much of society has a low opinion of pool, and pool culture, and the people in pool as a result. So will a brand’s association with pool hurt their brand? Yes, absolutely, in most cases they will suffer far more than they will gain from that association. Now this is where several people invariably pipe up and say “but…but..but football and poker and x, y, and z have sleazy people in them too and they still have big money sponsors”. True, but pool probably still has a higher percentage of crappy people in it than they do. That is certainly the perception anyway, and ultimately it is the perception that counts. But the main difference is that yes the sleazy factor in football and poker etc does do some harm to the sponsors, but it is far, far outweighed by the benefits the sponsors get. Small harm, huge benefit, and on net they come out way ahead. Pool on the other hand is big harm small benefit which on net is a nightmare.

These are the facts, as much as we may hate them. If we are smart, we deal with reality and make the changes necessary so that we can attract sponsors. The biggest way we can do that is by attracting fans who want to watch, and lots and lots of them. This will require dramatically changing the game, possibly so much so that it no longer even resembles what we currently know as the game/s of pool because it its current form nobody wants to watch, not even the players. None of our current games or formats will ever work. I don’t know what exactly will work, but many decades of history has proven what won’t work. A smaller factor but one which will also almost certainly need some modification also, is how pool and pool players and pool culture is perceived by the public—i.e cleaning up the game. Again, you can hate this as much as you want to, but that still doesn’t change what is true. We simply don’t offer enough benefit to be able to offset that baggage like other sports can get away with.

All this is in regards to the US market. Things may be a little different in pool markets in other parts of the world.
 
Yes, Tom could play the same character in the present time 2017.

The movie could show the decline of pool rooms, bowling alleys, drive-in's and western civilization into what it is present day.

A reflection of America and what it stood for once.

Sort of like the movie "Bar Fly". I loved it's upbeat look at life.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/barfly-1987



How about we turn the Vincent character into an Earl Strickland type who needs to rediscover personal character to make a comeback.

I know I'd pay to see Tom Cruise wearing a beekeeper suit and or ass weights.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
In a Dream

But I can dream, can't I?

Whether it be in pool or anything else, progress is dependent on good decision making, and good decision making is dependent on being able to recognize and accept truths no matter how ugly we may find those truths to be, and then having the ability to deal with reality no matter how much we may hate the reality. (On a side note, if everybody was actually capable of doing this we would only have one political party but a large portion of people simply aren’t and never will be capable of doing this).

Sponsors are worried about three basic things:
1. Will I get a good return on my dollars spent?
2. Even if I can get a positive return on my dollars, is there another area with another group of people where I can get an even better return?
3. Will my association with this sport or group cause damage to my company or brand?

Let’s break these down. “Will I get a good return on my dollars spent?” This depends mostly on not just how many people the sponsor can reach, but on how many people they can reach that are likely to use the type of product or service they sell (likely to use it because they will have use for it, they will enjoy it, they can afford it, etc). When people talk about all these “millions of pool players” it is the dumbest thing ever. First off, the vast majority of those aren’t “pool players” at all. They are people that take a date to a pool hall once or twice a year, or that go with coworkers once or twice a year to drink and socialize.

But regardless of how many there are, how many can you actually reach? About the most I can think of is 5,000-10,000 at one of the yearly national league events. Aside from that about the most you can reach is about 1,000 of them in the best free live streams, or maybe a few thousand in a couple of the online or print billiard publications. Do you really think some big national brand like Red Bull needs or wants to market to 10,000 people at best? It isn’t worth their time or money. The truth of the matter is that there really isn’t a ton of pool players, there are even fewer that get together all in one place to compete, and fewer yet that want to watch pool whether on TV or a stream or anywhere else. The fact of the matter is that pool is a fringe sport to begin with (and that is being kind if we are honest), and that most people can’t stand to watch--even most of those that like to participate in it. We may hate all that, but it’s still the truth. Sponsors can easily reach far more people by targeting other groups or sports.

Let’s say Red Bull has a 10% profit margin. Let’s say they put up $10,000 to sponsor the APA Nationals in Vegas. Out of the 10,000 people at nationals, they have to get $100,000 of business because of their sponsorship just to break even (because they only have a 10% profit margin). Out of the 10,000 players at APA Nationals, how many do you think actually become consistent Red Bull drinkers just because Red Bull sponsored the event? I would guess they probably get a few hundred to try it once or twice that wouldn’t have otherwise, and maybe 20 that become consistent Red Bull customers that never would have otherwise. Think that a couple hundred one time purchases and then the ongoing purchases from 20 people adds up to $100,000 worth of business? Fat chance. Even a measly $10,000 investment wouldn’t even begin to be worth it to Red Bull. It would mostly be lost money. They aren’t in business to throw away money.

So problem 1 is that you can’t reach very many pool players to begin with. Problem 2 is what percentage of those that you can reach are actually likely to use your product? As a group pool players don’t tend to have a lot of disposable income so that isn’t particularly appealing to any potential sponsor no matter who the sponsor is. And pool these days tends to be an older demographic, which isn’t the demographic that tends to use say energy drinks. Nor is pool a sport that really requires lots of energy, so again, an energy drink just isn’t that great of a fit.

Whoever sponsors or advertises in pool needs to be a product or service that tends to be used by older out of shape people that don’t have much disposable income. What fits that bill? Almost nothing does, and hence another major problem. About the only things that pool players make a good market for are pool products/services for obvious reasons, and cigarettes and alcohol as they tend to like to smoke and drink more than the average population. All of which kind of addresses question number 2 above, and the answer is that sponsors can almost always find a better return on their dollar somewhere else no matter what the product.

Then comes #3, “will the association with pool hurt their brand”. Let’s face it, pool is full of sleazy people, low lifes, people with criminal records, drug users, etc, all far more than is average for the rest of the population. And much of society has a low opinion of pool, and pool culture, and the people in pool as a result. So will a brand’s association with pool hurt their brand? Yes, absolutely, in most cases they will suffer far more than they will gain from that association. Now this is where several people invariably pipe up and say “but…but..but football and poker and x, y, and z have sleazy people in them too and they still have big money sponsors”. True, but pool probably still has a higher percentage of crappy people in it than they do. That is certainly the perception anyway, and ultimately it is the perception that counts. But the main difference is that yes the sleazy factor in football and poker etc does do some harm to the sponsors, but it is far, far outweighed by the benefits the sponsors get. Small harm, huge benefit, and on net they come out way ahead. Pool on the other hand is big harm small benefit which on net is a nightmare.

These are the facts, as much as we may hate them. If we are smart, we deal with reality and make the changes necessary so that we can attract sponsors. The biggest way we can do that is by attracting fans who want to watch, and lots and lots of them. This will require dramatically changing the game, possibly so much so that it no longer even resembles what we currently know as the game/s of pool because it its current form nobody wants to watch, not even the players. None of our current games or formats will ever work. I don’t know what exactly will work, but many decades of history has proven what won’t work. A smaller factor but one which will also almost certainly need some modification also, is how pool and pool players and pool culture is perceived by the public—i.e cleaning up the game. Again, you can hate this as much as you want to, but that still doesn’t change what is true. We simply don’t offer enough benefit to be able to offset that baggage like other sports can get away with.

All this is in regards to the US market. Things may be a little different in pool markets in other parts of the world.
 
Just asked for you to contribute.

But as another person said......

You are sitting on the sideline, waving your arms, making monkey noises.

Put up $5-10 million and I'll contribute. Until then, trying to improve pool isn't worth the time or energy because it's just not possible without that funding. Too many cooks in kitchen and everyone just chases the money.

Or maybe I'll just quit my job, leave my family and make it my life mission to help pool players make more money. Yea, that's what I'll do.
 
If that's your joke......

I don't get it.

I didn't make a joke. Or try. I laughed at JoeyA's nonsense. I know you're not able to understand and that's fine. You're either incredibly stupid or a troll. Either way, I'm tired of you. C U Next Tuesday.
 
I didn't make a joke. Or try. I laughed at JoeyA's nonsense. I know you're not able to understand and that's fine. You're either incredibly stupid or a troll. Either way, I'm tired of you. C U Next Tuesday.

Quote: Originally Posted by cleary
I make jokes all day long at work.

Quote: C U Next Tuesday.
Are we in the same league?
 
Quote: Originally Posted by cleary
I make jokes all day long at work.

Would you like a detailed log of every joke I've made while at work? Just one days worth or would you like weeks, months and years worth? I'm not sure I can provide this but I can try.


Are we in the same league?

We're clearly not.



It's almost as if you read key words of what I write and made up your own sentences of what I might have said. Is English your second language? If so, forgive me.
 
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Seriously though Scott... I'm sure you have great ideas yourself. You should save pool yourself. I'm just over here making jokes that you cannot hear and if you did, wouldn't understand.

Now drink a RedBull and ride your LeMond off into the sunset...
 
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Seriously though Scott... You should save pool yourself. I'm just over here making jokes that you cannot hear and if you did, wouldn't understand.
Now drink a RedBull and ride your LeMond off into the sunset...

What?!
How?!
Where?!

I Love You Too Dude.
You're Too Easy.
 
Seriously though Scott... I'm sure you have great ideas yourself. You should save pool yourself. I'm just over here making jokes that you cannot hear and if you did, wouldn't understand.

Now drink a RedBull and ride your LeMond off into the sunset...

I love your insults and personal attacks as rebuttals.
Harvard Debate Team?
:lovies:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleary:
I wonder what your last/other AZ user name is.

I said:
Think.... Crystal Lake

Poor Jason Wrote:
Sure as shit isnt me
Jason<---- no Hockey mask

Sorry Jason, I couldn't resist.
Move over and I'll help you paddle.

Actually my name is Jack.
I'm Jason's Cousin.
But you can call me Mr. Off
 
:groucho:Wow!
That took way too long to setup.


I got Cleary to say:
"I wonder what your last/other AZ user name is?"

I said:
"Think.... Crystal Lake"

Poor Jason Wrote:
"Sure as shit isn't me."
Jason---------->No Hockey Mask

--------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Jason, I couldn't resist.
Move over and I'll help you paddle.

Actually my name is Jack.
I'm Jason's Cousin.
But you can call me Mr. Off

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for Responding Jason.

It would not have worked without you.

I owe you one.
mchnhed


Good Night Everybody!
 
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Be Civil

This thread is to generate ideas and marketing suggestions for RED BULL only.

Perhaps, after enough good suggestions are made, we can invite the RED BULL marketing professionals to cruise over the thread and consider some of our ideas.

PLEASE, no wise-cracks or "humor". We all love pool. Let's try to pull together on this one. Marketing types don't have a penchant for wise-cracking humor, especially when their job is on the line.

Please make bona fide suggestions as to how you think RED BULL could profit from sponsoring pool or pool tournaments.

I have some ideas but I will wait to hear from the rest of you guys and girls.

Thanks for your valuable input.

JoeyA
 
This thread is to generate ideas and marketing suggestions for RED BULL only.

Perhaps, after enough good suggestions are made, we can invite the RED BULL marketing professionals to cruise over the thread and consider some of our ideas.

PLEASE, no wise-cracks or "humor". We all love pool. Let's try to pull together on this one. Marketing types don't have a penchant for wise-cracking humor, especially when their job is on the line.

Please make bona fide suggestions as to how you think RED BULL could profit from sponsoring pool or pool tournaments.

I have some ideas but I will wait to hear from the rest of you guys and girls.

Thanks for your valuable input.

JoeyA

Yea Scott, marketing types don't like to Joke.
 
That's Not Funny

Yea Scott, marketing types don't like to Joke.


That's not funny.

I guess it's within the rules of no humor or wise cracks.

Please respect the rules.

No more ribbing from me.
 
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