Poll: Who have tested that their cue is pointing at the right place.

[precisepotting]

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of this thread. If a player has a poor stroke (possibly due to an unstable bridge hand or improper grip hand), they could have excellent visual aiming skills but lack the basic fundamentals needed to consistently get their cue in line for the shot. Is it the visual skill of aiming that you are asking about as far as testing? If a player has a good stroke, and good body alignment, they will immediately know whether or not their visual aim is accurate when they shoot a shot and miss it. If a player has a bad stroke they really won't know if they're missing balls due to their bad stroke, poor alignment, or faulty visual aim.

A good stroke is only part of the aiming process. Then there's alignment, positioning your body in a way that allows the stroke to lock onto a specific visual aim line or distant target point. These two parts act as one machine. And we have visualization, what your eyes are feeding the brain. The brain then directs the machine to perform the task, preferably through subconscious thought. All of these parts are needed in order to aim with accuracy and consistency.

I like what One Pocket John said about front and rear aiming sights. That's a great way to look at it, get the two sights tracking together toward a designated target. As long as your body is aligned properly, and your stroke is sighted properly, you should immediately know if you're aiming accurately as soon as you strike the CB.

Is this "test" for aiming supposed to pinpoint a flaw in any specific part of the aiming process? Or does the test only pertain to the visual aspect? That would be a great test...a test that would definitively show where any fault occurs.

As you mentioned in line 2, if a player has poor stroke, he could have excellent visual aim. That is the point. Keyword is "could". How could he checked that? He has no way to check that because he has poor stroke. If his aiming is poor, then even if he improves his stroke dramatically, he will still have low self confidence due to inconsistency in making balls.

One pocket John's view of rear sight aperture is noted. To me, this is still not true aiming since you do not use your eye behind to align the two points.

This thread is to find out whether you think there is a need to do this test. I am an average player hence I would do this test if I could. Gives me a world of confidence to know that I am pointing correctly especially for long straight in shots. A small deviation and I miss, and I do not know if it is my aiming or other factors that causes the miss. Most of us attribute it to our cuing action or the beer we drink.

 

[precisepotting]

Ah, so are all the people that signed up for your "free" aiming manual going to receive emails to purchase your laser cue?

R u for real? You go round making snide remarks and rude allegations on many of my postings.

Since Day 1 that I joined Azbilliards, you have been anything but constructive.

Please prove your allegation. Where in Azbilliards or anywhere in the internet world did I say I have a laser cue to sell? The only thing I sell is dried sea cucumbers!!

Please I beg of you, do not read my threads or my posts anymore. I do not wish to engage in such useless banter due to your "nature" of being destructive.

Thanks.

 

[BC21]

.......

This thread is to find out whether you think there is a need to do this test. I am an average player hence I would do this test if I could. Gives me a world of confidence to know that I am pointing correctly especially for long straight in shots. A small deviation and I miss, and I do not know if it is my aiming or other factors that causes the miss. Most of us attribute it to our cuing action or the beer we drink.

I'll make a quick clip of what could be a good aiming test, as far as knowing if your tip is in tune with your aim.
Let me know if you think it's a good test. Someone has probably already done the test I have in mind, but we'll see.

I'm sure I have flaws in my stroke, but my brain does a fine job compensating for them when I'm aiming. I'll go record this little test and post it in a bit. I'm curious.

 

[precisepotting]

I beg to differ. I know of a chef who cooks for many years without having any feedback. He doesn't know his cooking was not up to par and he doesn't listen to others. As such, he has been honing his skills for many years, and it got worse by the years.

Hammering a nail, you get instant feedback. You know when you missed and when it hits your thumb. For pool, it could be your aiming system or your cuing action.

And by the way, there is no way a cop or soldier can fire instinctively. The first and foremost that they have to do, is to zero the weapon. In weapon, firing instinctively is a sure miss (without zeroing) and if the target is far away. You should always use the aiming devices on the weapon for shooting.

In other words, if you are not aimed at your target in the first place, all other factors aren't important anymore. The aiming system and cuing action would only increase the error factor.


To find out if you are aiming at the exact spot, this is the method I have devised. I have kinda explained it in one of the the Aiming Conversation thread.

Here goes:

Have in hand a roll of string, some tape and a marker. The steps are:

1. Mark a cross on the wall on the same level as would be a object ball on a table with reference to your table(dining?) that you will used to put your bridge hand.
2. Put one end of the string there and tape it down securely.
3. Pull the string to the table (dining) and make sure it is taut.
4. Tape the other end to the end of the table opposite the crossed mark on the wall.
5. Mark a point on the table where the cue ball is to sit - preferably 6 - 10 ft (2 to 3m) from the marked cross on the wall. You can tape a masking tape on the table and then mark a cross on it. Make sure the intersection of the marked cross is directly below the string.
6. About (20 - 30in) 50 to 80 cm from this point, draw a straight below the string towards the end of the table where the tape is.
7. Now, take out the string. You will see a cross (where the cue ball is supposed to lie) and a line to the end of the table some distance from the cue ball (this is where the cue is supposed to be).
8. Lay your cue directly behind the crossed mark (for the cue ball) parallel with the drawn line and with the drawn line splitting your cue into two. Now, draw the outline of your cue from where your line starts.
9. End of preparation.

The theory is, the target point, the center of the cue ball and the cue shaft must be in a straight line. If the cue shaft is not parallel, then it is not pointing at the target.

The Exercise:

1. Place the cue ball at the cross.
2. Look at the target and aimed at it from the center of the cue ball, as you would when you are playing on a pool table. Some of you might even want to draw an object ball on the wall with colour for simulation purposes.
3. Stoop down, aim and as you are feathering about to strike the cue ball, STOP.
4. Lay down your cue shaft on the table. Now look at the outline of the shaft on the table with that of the actual shaft that you have laid down. If it is not perfect in line, that meant your aim is off. You can figure out which direction you are aiming off from the difference in the two directions.


For different exercises, you can put the cue ball far away so that you have to stretch and/or cue ball close to edge of the table so you so not have the luxury of having a comfortable bridge.

Hope this method will proof to be useful for some of you. If you have a laser pen, then you can do away with the string and tape.

I believe there are others with a better method. Do share.

Best wishes.

Hi BC21, you can also try this DIY method out if you wish.

If you think a point on the wall is not ideal, you can cut a round paper the size of a ob and paste it on the wall.

Interested to see your method and outcome of your test.

 

[BC21]

Hi BC21, you can also try this DIY method out if you wish.

If you think a point on the wall is not ideal, you can cut a round paper the size of a ob and paste it on the wall.

Interested to see your method and outcome of your test.

Ok..... Yours is better than mine. :grin:

I will try it out tomorrow. What I just did in this clip is not in the same ballpark as your method. I did it the first time, then barely thinned the 3 ball two times in a row but cut those shots out. Its a tough shot. Probably brushing the ball on my right is an indication of slightly hitting a micron right of the CB vertical center line. Or the fact that I'm not wearing contacts and was more or less guessing! Lol

https://youtu.be/iNjbyD9Bfqk

 

[precisepotting]

Ok..... Yours is better than mine. :grin:

I will try it out tomorrow. What I just did in this clip is not in the same ballpark as your method. I did it the first time, then barely thinned the 3 ball two times in a row but cut those shots out. Its a tough shot. Probably brushing the ball on my right is an indication of slightly hitting a micron right of the CB vertical center line. Or the fact that I'm not wearing contacts and was more or less guessing! Lol

https://youtu.be/iNjbyD9Bfqk

Hi BC21,

Just watched your youtube. I have these to comments:

1. You need perfect stroke to execute this. So, only very few can execute this stroke.
2. In the video, if you examine your stroke closely, you will see that you veered very slightly to your left after the follow through.

Was there any unintended English applied. I believe so. The evidence is that the cue ball is not in line after it hits the rail between the two balls. If the rails are in perfect condition, the line up and down the table is truly perpendicular to the rails, and if the cue ball is struck perfectly with absolutely zero sidespin, then the cue ball should still be in line after the second rail hit.

Am I right?

I felt this test has too many unknown factors especially for the average players like myself.

 

[BC21]

Hi BC21,

Just watched your youtube. I have these to comments:

1. You need perfect stroke to execute this. So, only very few can execute this stroke.
2. In the video, if you examine your stroke closely, you will see that you veered very slightly to your left after the follow through.

Was there any unintended English applied. I believe so. The evidence is that the cue ball is not in line after it hits the rail between the two balls. If the rails are in perfect condition, the line up and down the table is truly perpendicular to the rails, and if the cue ball is struck perfectly with absolutely zero sidespin, then the cue ball should still be in line after the second rail hit.

Am I right?

I felt this test has too many unknown factors especially for the average players like myself.

My table could possibly roll off a bit, as I haven't recovered or leveled it in about 3 years. That's why I shot it firm -- to make sure the CB rolled as straight as possible off the first cushion. The camera angle is slightly right of center, but it looks like the CB hits the mark and comes straight back, perpendicular to the end rails, then begins rolling out as it slows down from one piece of slate to the next.

I believe you are correct about this being too difficult and involving too many factors. I mean, a player would have to have correct alignment, aim, and stroke, and a moderately level table. And even then it's not easy. Out of curiosity, when my bloodshot eyes are worthy of contacts again, I'll record 20 attempts back to back in order to see how consistent I can be. My guess is maybe 50%.

 

[precisepotting]

Wow, 50% between those two balls? Very impressive. I would be lucky if I get 10%.

 

[Dan White]

Some guys say, "Hey, the ball went in the pocket, that's all the proof I need of a good stroke." I think you can get very good with that mentality, but I think you probably have to learn how to play well with stroke flaws and that takes more time than to learn how to play when your stroke really is straight. In Michael Jordan's book he says that the difference between the good professional basketball players and the great ones is the fundamentals.

This discussion reminds me of an observation I made awhile back. I was watching a youtube match (straight pool) between two players who play in professional events, and are excellent players, but do not usually finish in the money. Each of them has run well over 100 balls plenty of times. After awhile of watching I noticed that their cue action seemed a little off. What I mean is that each of their strokes was a little wobbly or loose when you look only at what the cue is doing. This was more apparent for hard hit shots of course. When you watch a guy like a Hohmann, or even anyone from the German contingent, the stroke is absolutely perfect. The difference in stroke between the world class player and the low/medium professional player was so apparent that I couldn't help but notice.

Maybe those two guys think their stroke is fine because they can run a lot of balls. I say one of the things they need to do is clean up their stroke a little if they want to start beating the big boys.

 

[BC21]

Some guys say, "Hey, the ball went in the pocket, that's all the proof I need of a good stroke." I think you can get very good with that mentality, but I think you probably have to learn how to play well with stroke flaws and that takes more time than to learn how to play when your stroke really is straight. In Michael Jordan's book he says that the difference between the good professional basketball players and the great ones is the fundamentals.

This discussion reminds me of an observation I made awhile back. I was watching a youtube match (straight pool) between two players who play in professional events, and are excellent players, but do not usually finish in the money. Each of them has run well over 100 balls plenty of times. After awhile of watching I noticed that their cue action seemed a little off. What I mean is that each of their strokes was a little wobbly or loose when you look only at what the cue is doing. This was more apparent for hard hit shots of course. When you watch a guy like a Hohmann, or even anyone from the German contingent, the stroke is absolutely perfect. The difference in stroke between the world class player and the low/medium professional player was so apparent that I couldn't help but notice.

Maybe those two guys think their stroke is fine because they can run a lot of balls. I say one of the things they need to do is clean up their stroke a little if they want to start beating the big boys.

Good point, Dan. I pay attention to my stroke on certain shots when I happen to practice, and I see little movements that I don't like. Incorporating that mobile app as you've done in your YouTube Clips is a great tool for stroke analysis. I've already forgotten the name of it....I'll have to check my PM's to find it again. I'd love to have it, but keep forgetting about it!! I believe StrokeAnalyzer has some great software available for computer-savvy players. I think it does the same thing, but probably has more options than a mobile app.

 

[One Pocket John]

Who have tested that their cue is pointing at the right place.

This is the test I have been using for the last 5 years every day before beginning my drills (Bert Kinisters-60 minute 9 ball workout-25 shots total)

In this drill its important to shoot them diagonally from one corner pocket to the other corner pocket and not lined up across the table where the rails could influence your stance and stroke.
Do not trust your vision to place the donuts in what appears to you to be a straight line. Instead use a string or whatever you have to make the straight line from one corner pocket to the other corner pocket.

Shoot each shot using a stop shot 10 times (30 total) at each object ball location (3 total)
Next shoot each shot using high spin 10 times (30 total) at each object ball location (3 total) The goal on these shots is to have the cue ball follow the object ball into the pocket.
Next shoot each shot using draw spin 10 times (30 total) at each object ball location (3 total) The object here is to draw the cue ball back into the corner pocket behind you. (I have only been successful with the 1st object ball location)

This exercise will quickly let you know:
1. Are you seeing a straight line to the ball to send it into the pocket
2. From a standing location do you feel that your body and shooting arm are in a position to deliver the cue in a straight line. If so, bend down and shoot the shot.
If the cue ball after contact with the object ball should veer to the left or right your body is not aligned properly to allow your shooting arm to hinge naturally on a straight line.
Note: The distance between the grip hand and bridge should remain constant, only the distance from the bridge hand to the cue ball should change. For stun shots my distance is 10", for follow shots my distance is 12", for draw shots my distance is 8".

This is a good exercise and test. It has been for me. I hope that it helps someone.

John

 

[BasementDweller]

One Pocket John said:

"Do not trust your vision to place the donuts in what appears to you to be a straight line. Instead use a string or whatever you have to make the straight line from one corner pocket to the other corner pocket."

Seriously -- If someone's vision is so suspect that they can't even line up two balls in a straight line without using some sort of aid, then what hope do they really have of being able to sort out their stroking defecencies?

I know there's been a lot of talk on here about finding one's vision center and all that but this seems to be taking that to the extreme. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[precisepotting]

One Pocket John said:

"Do not trust your vision to place the donuts in what appears to you to be a straight line. Instead use a string or whatever you have to make the straight line from one corner pocket to the other corner pocket."

Seriously -- If someone's vision is so suspect that they can't even line up two balls in a straight line without using some sort of aid, then what hope do they really have of being able to sort out their stroking defecencies?

I know there's been a lot of talk on here about finding one's vision center and all that but this seems to be taking that to the extreme. Maybe I'm wrong.

It ain't easy to be lined up perfectly. In his drill sets, it has to be PERFECT, otherwise the follow shot and in particular, the drawshot, the cueball will have problem making the pocket. If the initial setup is using eye to align and if you pot the object ball but missed the cueball making the pocket, there is always that suspicion at the back of your head that the balls weren't lined up properly.

In drills, we must take away all possible factors that might affect the outcome, and leave only the set skills that you want to practice to be the only variabled, where and if possible.

 

[Dan White]

Incorporating that mobile app as you've done in your YouTube Clips is a great tool for stroke analysis. I've already forgotten the name of it....I'll have to check my PM's to find it again. I'd love to have it, but keep forgetting about it!! I believe StrokeAnalyzer has some great software available for computer-savvy players. I think it does the same thing, but probably has more options than a mobile app.

The one I use is called Coach's Eye. I paid $20 to unlock all the features and I think it's now something like $5. Well worth it.

 

[Dan White]

This is the test I have been using for the last 5 years every day before beginning my drills (Bert Kinisters-60 minute 9 ball workout-25 shots total)

I'm sure it is a worthwhile drill, but it won't determine whether you have a straight stroke. It only determines how well you are able to make compensating errors at the contact point on the cue ball. I could make all those shots with a crooked set up and swoop during the shot. The problem I ran into is that when I needed precision on a firm shot, I wasn't able to time all my errors correctly and I'd miss. With a straighter stroke I don't miss those same shots nearly as much.

On the other hand, I suppose if you can execute all those shots perfectly at all speeds then why bother changing?

 

[One Pocket John]

I'm sure it is a worthwhile drill, but it won't determine whether you have a straight stroke. It only determines how well you are able to make compensating errors at the contact point on the cue ball. I could make all those shots with a crooked set up and swoop during the shot. The problem I ran into is that when I needed precision on a firm shot, I wasn't able to time all my errors correctly and I'd miss. With a straighter stroke I don't miss those same shots nearly as much.

On the other hand, I suppose if you can execute all those shots perfectly at all speeds then why bother changing?

Just as in golf, you can either choose to drive a golf ball like Happy Gilmore or you can choose to drive a golf ball like Greg Norman or Tom Watson. I prefer the latter.

I like waking up everyday knowing that my stroke is as naturally straight on the shot line as I can manage.

Having solid fundamentals, IMO, is the key to this game.

This is just my way of getting my fundamentals as close to perfect as I can. I'm in my 70's now and just try to do the best I can.

Note: I Googled "Coaches Eye" it's a cool tool. I think that it may be what Nick Barrows (the snooker coach) uses. Yup, $5.00 for the iphone app. I may get this. Thanks.

Have a good day.

John

 

[precisepotting]

Hi Dan,

Totally agreed with what you said about being a good player needs to have good fundamentals. That is probably the differentiating factor between a good professional to one that wins tournaments.

I believe aiming at where you intend the cue ball to be at is one of the most basic fundamental. Most of us take it for granted that we are perfect in our aiming, but is it?

For me when I missed a pocket, I would run through my mind and see what is possibly the error contributing my missing the pocket. Is it the ghost ball (based on my gut feel aiming system) is at the wrong position, or is it my cuing is the one at fault, or that my cue is not aiming at my target ghost ball in the first place. I believe most players will not attribute it to the latter.

That is why I am curious as to how many players will have/or want to have a proper zeroing of their cue shaft to target.

 

[precisepotting]

I am also curious as to how our aim is when the cue ball is on the rail and also when we have to shoot over another ball.

For me, my accuracy (at least when potting long shots) drops dramatically. I believe my cue is not aimed correctly although I thought it is.

 

[BC21]

I am also curious as to how our aim is when the cue ball is on the rail and also when we have to shoot over another ball.

For me, my accuracy (at least when potting long shots) drops dramatically. I believe my cue is not aimed correctly although I thought it is.

The most common error with these shots is that accidentally hitting the CB off-center (the slightest bit) with an elevated cue causes a massé.

 

[BC21]

The one I use is called Coach's Eye. I paid $20 to unlock all the features and I think it's now something like $5. Well worth it.

Thanks Dan.