Everyone complains about pool just needing a major sponsor....

[Chopdoc]

In 2003, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco dropped its sponsorship, and NASCAR negotiated a contract with Nextel, a telecommunications company. In 2004, the series became known as the Nextel Cup Series.

Casinos sponsor poker....only if it leads to bringing customers into the casinos, and they also sell advertising to recoup their sponsorship...LOL....so how much to they spend?....and how much do they make from the real advertiser's?

I am aware that Nascar is now with Nextel. It was just an example.

It's hard to deny that the various "vices" such as you mentioned are actually major sponsors of various different sports.

I expect your questions are rhetorical but it is an interesting topic nonetheless.

Sponsorship is basically an advertising expense. A business can sponsor a series of events, a single event, a team, a single athlete, and various combinations of these things.

Of course any business has to consider ROI on their advertisement dollars. ROI (return on investment) is after all what you are getting at.

There are many things to consider with ROI. Short term, long term, brand awareness, brand loyalty, media synergy, and more.

I think most experts would say a good marketing and advertising RIO is around a 5:1 ratio of revenue to cost. 10:1 would be exceptionally good.

Of course, it depends on your business model and what your products or services are. For some a 2:1 ratio is OK.

So I am guessing that any sponsorship deals in the pool and billiard industry should be looking for somewhere in the 2:1 to 5:1 ROI.


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[realkingcobra]

I am aware that Nascar is now with Nextel. It was just an example.

It's hard to deny that the various "vices" such as you mentioned are actually major sponsors of various different sports.

I expect your questions are rhetorical but it is an interesting topic nonetheless.

Sponsorship is basically an advertising expense. A business can sponsor a series of events, a single event, a team, a single athlete, and various combinations of these things.

Of course any business has to consider ROI on their advertisement dollars. ROI (return on investment) is after all what you are getting at.

There are many things to consider with ROI. Short term, long term, brand awareness, brand loyalty, media synergy, and more.

I think most experts would say a good marketing and advertising RIO is around a 5:1 ratio of revenue to cost.!0:1 would be exceptionally good.

Of course, it depends on your business model and what your products or services are. For some a 2:1 ratio is OK.

So I am guessing that any sponsorship deals in the pool and billiard industry should be looking for somewhere in the 2:1 to 5:1 ROI.


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That all depends on the products being sold, i happen to know of a product that would start marketing in this industry, then run over into many other industries world wide

 

[Chopdoc]

That all depends on the products being sold, i happen to know of a product that would start marketing in this industry, then run over into many other industries world wide

That's what I am getting from your posts on the matter.

It sounds like the concern is that product may clash with the reputation of pool and the association with the "vices" and that was what you were concerned about.

I understand marketing, ROI, etc. But how to get around a clash with the association of pool with those "vices"? I have no idea.


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[jokrswylde]

Just an observation I was thinking about as I was reading this thread. Lets look at the current juggernaut of MMA, and specifically, the UFC. I can remember going to a UFC event in Birmingham, Alabama in the mid nineties when there were maybe a few hundred people in the arena with me. The company was bad, the product was bad, and people associated the ufc with redneck degenerate brawlers maybe a step above the old tough man competitions. Heck it was only legal in a few states if I recall correctly.

Recently, the ufc sold for almost 5 billion dollars (I think). What changed? I feel, and i know several will agree that the event that launched the ufc and in turn mma, was the first season of The Ultimate Fighter. ( I know using state commission rules was huge as well, but I am talking about developing stars)
A reality TV show that put 12 aspiring fighters in a las vegas mansion with constant access to alcohol. The show was basically about them training and fighting during the day, and drinking and acting like fools at night. The resulting Forrest Griffin vs, Stephon Bonner match still ranks as one of the all time greats ever to show on live tv. And these guys were average fighters at best...they just got in there and beat each others brains in on cable tv.

The ultimate fighter was the result of a leap of faith by the then ufc owners trying to drag mma into the mainstream...they financed the show almost entirely themselves on a (then) not well known cable channel (spike tv)...talk about a big gamble.

What if there were a similar reality show about pool? 12 pros staying in the same house, lots of alcohol, daily elimination challenges, last man standing gets a hundred grand...

The catch is out of those twelve pros, you would have to have some that had natural charisma, some swagger, some attitude, something that the audience can root for (or against).

Just need a couple millionaires to finance it!

I mean, heck, Inkmaster is one of my favorite shows on right now, and it is an hour worth of watching people tattoo! You mean to tell me a creative producer can't make pool at least as interesting as tattooing??!!

You get somebody that could finance something similar and the sponsors will come if it is successfull...heck the guys that started the TapOut brand began their business by selling t shirts out of the trunks of cars at local mma events. it just takes one pool match to go viral, one drunken fight between two (or more) pool players for word of mouth to generate views...

at least it worked for the ufc...

 

[realkingcobra]

Just an observation I was thinking about as I was reading this thread. Lets look at the current juggernaut of MMA, and specifically, the UFC. I can remember going to a UFC event in Birmingham, Alabama in the mid nineties when there were maybe a few hundred people in the arena with me. The company was bad, the product was bad, and people associated the ufc with redneck degenerate brawlers maybe a step above the old tough man competitions. Heck it was only legal in a few states if I recall correctly.

Recently, the ufc sold for almost 5 billion dollars (I think). What changed? I feel, and i know several will agree that the event that launched the ufc and in turn mma, was the first season of The Ultimate Fighter. ( I know using state commission rules was huge as well, but I am talking about developing stars)
A reality TV show that put 12 aspiring fighters in a las vegas mansion with constant access to alcohol. The show was basically about them training and fighting during the day, and drinking and acting like fools at night. The resulting Forrest Griffin vs, Stephon Bonner match still ranks as one of the all time greats ever to show on live tv. And these guys were average fighters at best...they just got in there and beat each others brains in on cable tv.

The ultimate fighter was the result of a leap of faith by the then ufc owners trying to drag mma into the mainstream...they financed the show almost entirely themselves on a (then) not well known cable channel (spike tv)...talk about a big gamble.

What if there were a similar reality show about pool? 12 pros staying in the same house, lots of alcohol, daily elimination challenges, last man standing gets a hundred grand...

The catch is out of those twelve pros, you would have to have some that had natural charisma, some swagger, some attitude, something that the audience can root for (or against).

Just need a couple millionaires to finance it!

I mean, heck, Inkmaster is one of my favorite shows on right now, and it is an hour worth of watching people tattoo! You mean to tell me a creative producer can't make pool at least as interesting as tattooing??!!

You get somebody that could finance something similar and the sponsors will come if it is successfull...heck the guys that started the TapOut brand began their business by selling t shirts out of the trunks of cars at local mma events. it just takes one pool match to go viral, one drunken fight between two (or more) pool players for word of mouth to generate views...

at least it worked for the ufc...

People don't watch the UFC to see who's going to win the fight....people watch because they want to see someone get hurt plain and simple. Everyone knows the martial arts used in movies is fake...because guys are getting knocked out with one punch, and no one ever gets their head split open spilling out blood, and NO ONE for sure breaks their leg and wraps it around the other guys lag when delivering a sweeping kick....because that shit's fo real in the MMA, and of course with enough people watching.... advertiser's....see that word i just used, that's not the samething as sponsors. So no, i don't think this would work for pool...LOL

 

[JoeyInCali]

People don't watch the UFC to see who's going to win the fight....people watch because they want to see someone get hurt plain and simple. Everyone knows the martial arts used in movies is fake...because guys are getting knocked out with one punch, and no one ever gets their head split open spilling out blood, and NO ONE for sure breaks their leg and wraps it around the other guys lag when delivering a sweeping kick....because that shit's fo real in the MMA, and of course with enough people watching.... advertiser's....see that word i just used, that's not the samething as sponsors. So no, i don't think this would work for pool...LOL

Stick to pool table.
That statement is out in Pluto.

When UFC started, there were no rounds . It was battle to the end one-day round-robin. People got hurt bad. Two late substitutes even won tournaments when they only fought the finals match.
UFC was a dying sport after a while. They went to 5-minute rounds . They went to ranking system like in boxing. They had weight divisions instead of just open weight division.
Then Tito Ortiz, Chuck Lidell and Randy Couture and company started to make names with their rivalries. They started become household names. But, UFC was still not huge back then. So much that Randy Couture was only getting paid $250K per even and he tried to retire from it unless he got paid more .
Dana White and some partners bought UFC in the early 2000's.
They had a marketing plan. They exposed the fighters and events through Fox Sports.
That Ultimate Fighter show as jokrswylde mentioned made a huge difference.
After that UFC's ppv numbers surged. Then they cut a deal with Spike TV.
UFC hasn't looked back since. Even bought out Pride .

You don't think names make a difference? Ronda Rousey sold 1MM PPV's when she was hot. Anderson Silva sold a ton of PPV's when he was hot. Conor McGregor sold a ton of PPV.
Personalities sell sports. No matter what sport.

But, they need all the help and exposure they can get.

And oh, THE CASINOS OPENED BETTING ON UFC fights.

 

[jokrswylde]

People don't watch the UFC to see who's going to win the fight....people watch because they want to see someone get hurt plain and simple. Everyone knows the martial arts used in movies is fake...because guys are getting knocked out with one punch, and no one ever gets their head split open spilling out blood, and NO ONE for sure breaks their leg and wraps it around the other guys lag when delivering a sweeping kick....because that shit's fo real in the MMA, and of course with enough people watching.... advertiser's....see that word i just used, that's not the samething as sponsors. So no, i don't think this would work for pool...LOL

I agree on a couole of your points , but my original point stands, nobody watches Inkmaster, survivor, bachelorette, or any of a number of reality shows to see who wins in and of itself. We tune in week after week because of the drama, the conflicts that arise, and because they cassette about the personalities involved.

Corona beer had a big plug in this weeks Inkmastrr, wherw they sponsored a segment and v cases of corona were featured on camera. That is sponsirship that leads to advertising...i think a creative mind could certainly make pool as exciting as tattooing.

Then you ser if the game itself can feed off the publicity generated by the show... just as tattooing has, or another example is how the various survival shows generated a boon to the survival supply industry...

 

[strmanglr scott]

...and of course with enough people watching.... advertiser's....see that word i just used, that's not the samething as sponsors. So no, i don't think this would work for pool...LOL

"...with enough people watching..."

My whole point. Ty.

When that happens, advertisers and sponsors will come.

The price of advertising will directly correlate to sponsors. Some being one in the same.

 

[realkingcobra]

"...with enough people watching..."

My whole point. Ty.

When that happens, advertisers and sponsors will come.

The price of advertising will directly correlate to sponsors. Some being one in the same.

Sponsor's only get involved if they can see a clear path the getting the advertisers to jump on board, so they can get their money back, then take money from the advertiser's to turn a profit leaving enough left over to still do the sponsoring but will limit that to what they feel is enough, then the rest goes back in their pocket....as entitlement!

 

[Chopdoc]

People don't watch the UFC to see who's going to win the fight....people watch because they want to see someone get hurt plain and simple. Everyone knows the martial arts used in movies is fake...because guys are getting knocked out with one punch, and no one ever gets their head split open spilling out blood, and NO ONE for sure breaks their leg and wraps it around the other guys lag when delivering a sweeping kick....because that shit's fo real in the MMA, and of course with enough people watching.... advertiser's....see that word i just used, that's not the samething as sponsors. So no, i don't think this would work for pool...LOL

I have to agree.

Heck, a lot of people watch NASCAR for the crashes.


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[realkingcobra]

Let me ask everyone whos posted so far, if every sport listed so far has an event center associated to its own sport in one way or another....where is pools EVENT CENTER? I mean boxing has Madison Square Garden, tennis has Wimbledon, Nascar has the Indy 500, every football baseball and basketball team has their own Arena, horse racing has the Kentucky Derby. Where is the grand event, world class pool tournament event center located?

 

[Chopdoc]

Corona beer had a big plug in this weeks Inkmastrr, wherw they sponsored a segment and v cases of corona were featured on camera. That is sponsirship that leads to advertising...i think a creative mind could certainly make pool as exciting as tattooing.

I hope so.

Golf? Boring. Plenty of money put in it.

Tennis? Boring. Plenty of money put in it.

How to make pool more exciting to a broader audience? Not sure. A very creative mind is needed.

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[realkingcobra]

Stick to pool table.
That statement is out in Pluto.

When UFC started, there were no rounds . It was battle to the end one-day round-robin. People got hurt bad. Two late substitutes even won tournaments when they only fought the finals match.
UFC was a dying sport after a while. They went to 5-minute rounds . They went to ranking system like in boxing. They had weight divisions instead of just open weight division.
Then Tito Ortiz, Chuck Lidell and Randy Couture and company started to make names with their rivalries. They started become household names. But, UFC was still not huge back then. So much that Randy Couture was only getting paid $250K per even and he tried to retire from it unless he got paid more .
Dana White and some partners bought UFC in the early 2000's.
They had a marketing plan. They exposed the fighters and events through Fox Sports.
That Ultimate Fighter show as jokrswylde mentioned made a huge difference.
After that UFC's ppv numbers surged. Then they cut a deal with Spike TV.
UFC hasn't looked back since. Even bought out Pride .

You don't think names make a difference? Ronda Rousey sold 1MM PPV's when she was hot. Anderson Silva sold a ton of PPV's when he was hot. Conor McGregor sold a ton of PPV.
Personalities sell sports. No matter what sport.

But, they need all the help and exposure they can get.

And oh, THE CASINOS OPENED BETTING ON UFC fights.

And the magic words you used was weight classes, time limits, ranking system....all of which pool has none. No pool player can go join to play golfs us open, but any golfer with the entry fee in his pocket can sign up to play in any pool tournament there is..... and don't even have to be required to make a ball!!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

Stick to pool table.
That statement is out in Pluto.

When UFC started, there were no rounds . It was battle to the end one-day round-robin. People got hurt bad. Two late substitutes even won tournaments when they only fought the finals match.
UFC was a dying sport after a while. They went to 5-minute rounds . They went to ranking system like in boxing. They had weight divisions instead of just open weight division.
Then Tito Ortiz, Chuck Lidell and Randy Couture and company started to make names with their rivalries. They started become household names. But, UFC was still not huge back then. So much that Randy Couture was only getting paid $250K per even and he tried to retire from it unless he got paid more .
Dana White and some partners bought UFC in the early 2000's.
They had a marketing plan. They exposed the fighters and events through Fox Sports.
That Ultimate Fighter show as jokrswylde mentioned made a huge difference.
After that UFC's ppv numbers surged. Then they cut a deal with Spike TV.
UFC hasn't looked back since. Even bought out Pride .

You don't think names make a difference? Ronda Rousey sold 1MM PPV's when she was hot. Anderson Silva sold a ton of PPV's when he was hot. Conor McGregor sold a ton of PPV.
Personalities sell sports. No matter what sport.

But, they need all the help and exposure they can get.

And oh, THE CASINOS OPENED BETTING ON UFC fights.

Furthermore, how manynof them fighters still got paid when they lost, unlike a pool player, who don't make a dime until near the very end of a pool tournament, and even then still come out losing money in the end!

 

[Chopdoc]

Let me ask everyone whos posted so far, if every sport listed so far has an event center associated to its own sport in one way or another....where is pools EVENT CENTER? I mean boxing has Madison Square Garden, tennis has Wimbledon, Nascar has the Indy 500, every football baseball and basketball team has their own Arena, horse racing has the Kentucky Derby. Where is the grand event, world class pool tournament event center located?

To us or the general public?

To the general public it's Vegas in general hands down.
.

 

[Chopdoc]

And the magic words you used was weight classes, time limits, ranking system....all of which pool has none. No pool player can go join to play golfs us open, but any golfer with the entry fee in his pocket can sign up to play in any pool tournament there is..... and don't even have to be required to make a ball!!!!

Furthermore, how manynof them fighters still got paid when they lost, unlike a pool player, who don't make a dime until near the very end of a pool tournament, and even then still come out losing money in the end!

Back in the day we made our money outside the tournaments. I haven't really been in the game for almost 30 years but I suspect it's still the same. Relatively few make their money by making it into the winner's bracket in the tournament.

I think what you are talking about is one of the barriers that keeps pool out of the Olympics too...international standardization and a regulatory body.


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[realkingcobra]

To us or the general public?

To the general public it's Vegas in general hands down.
.

My point exactly...in a casino, because this sport has no where else to go! Ask Brunswick, Olhausen, or Diamond of all the pool rooms they've sold pool tables to around the world....how many have they given ANY money to as a sponsor to promote a pool tournament in their name in the hopes of creating additional sales....the answer would be none! Why is that? If everyone is so busy doing everything they can do to support this game we all love so much....then why does pool need sponsors?

 

[strmanglr scott]

I have to agree.

Heck, a lot of people watch NASCAR for the crashes.


.

I will agree on both, yep. Almost said that about nascar.

 

[realkingcobra]

Everyone in this industry is like those you see throwing change into a wishing well making wishes and hoping they come true. When someone from this industry come up to that wishing well, they throw in a penny so it lands right next to a quarter, then reaches in a takes the quarter out.... still feeling good about the penny they donated!

 

[strmanglr scott]

My point exactly...in a casino, because this sport has no where else to go! Ask Brunswick, Olhausen, or Diamond of all the pool rooms they've sold pool tables to around the world....how many have they given ANY money to as a sponsor to promote a pool tournament in their name in the hopes of creating additional sales....the answer would be none! Why is that? If everyone is so busy doing everything they can do to support this game we all love so much....then why does pool need sponsors?

I'd have to agree, Vegas is it. Competition pool at the most basic level is betting. There is excitement.