9-Ball Layout With 21 Different Shot Options! Which Do You Like Best?

[KenRobbins]

FYI, I didn't need inside on this shot. I used straight follow. The slight angle of the shot is enough to get the natural break-out. Why do you think the inside is required ... to create more cut angle?


I notice that too. iusedtoberich is hitting the CB too low in his video.

Regards,
Dave

I'm not verg good at explaining shots like most, but will try. Aim to shoot the 1 ball straight into the rail as setup. You want to hit the rail first with whitey before striking the 3 ball. The inside english will take you to the other side of the table for better shape on the 2 ball.

Using center high english and going straight into the 3 ball is killing the cue ball. Which gives you bad shape on the 2 ball.

 

[dr_dave]

I'm not verg good at explaining shots like most, but will try. Aim to shoot the 1 ball straight into the rail as setup. You want to hit the rail first with whitey before striking the 3 ball. The inside english will take you to the other side of the table for better shape on the 2 ball.

Got it. That is a good idea. I wish I had thought of that while filming. Maybe this should be shot 23.

Using center high english and going straight into the 3 ball is killing the cue ball. Which gives you bad shape on the 2 ball.

Agreed.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I'm not verg good at explaining shots like most, but will try. Aim to shoot the 1 ball straight into the rail as setup. You want to hit the rail first with whitey before striking the 3 ball. The inside english will take you to the other side of the table for better shape on the 2 ball.

Got it. That is a good idea. I wish I had thought of that while filming. Maybe this should be shot 23.

FYI, I just tried it out on my table and got a good shot at the 2 with a good break out on my first try! This might be my new favorite option (although, in a match, I still think I would be more confident and comfortable with "(4) 1 into 3-4, hide behind 2").

I've decided to add new options to the list in the first post as they are suggested. Here's what I have added so far:

other options suggested after filming:
(22) bank 1 into 4 to throw 3 into corner
(23) 1 in corner, follow with inside to break out 3-4 rail first for better shape on 2

Unfortunately, I am not able to add these as options on the poll.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip....
PS: You haven't taken an official stab at the BU Exams in a while. If you try them again, please consider posting new scores and videos on the AZB BU thread. I'll be curious to see how much higher you can score compared to the past. I just finished up a couple of big projects, so I hope to find some time to attempt to top my scores, especially Exam I, where I think it should be possible to crush my previous best score (although, it never seems to work out so easily).

Your drill is too much hassle to set up. If you send me that complete projector system that has your drill built into it, I will do the second part of your exam completely through 4 times per week for one year (barring vacations), and the level finding first part of your exam twice per month.

You have permission to use my likeness to advertise your videos Assuming my score goes up.

 

[dr_dave]

PS: You haven't taken an official stab at the BU Exams in a while. If you try them again, please consider posting new scores and videos on the AZB BU thread. I'll be curious to see how much higher you can score compared to the past. I just finished up a couple of big projects, so I hope to find some time to attempt to top my scores, especially Exam I, where I think it should be possible to crush my previous best score (although, it never seems to work out so easily).

Your drill is too much hassle to set up.

That's a poor excuse. Just put the donuts on your table and leave them there. It only takes 5 minutes to place the donuts (per the instructions document and video). And most of the donuts aren't even required. They just help make the exams go faster. The ball placements don't need to be perfect.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: Did you try the higher hit on the CB yet?

 

[dr_dave]

​

The following video demonstrates many options for approaching this table layout:

NV I.12 - VENT-II 9-Ball Layout With 21 Different Shot Options! Which Do You Like Best?​

Here are the options demonstrated in the video:
(1) 1 in side with long-side shape on 2
(2) 1 in corner with short-side shape on 2
(3) 1 in corner, playing for bank on 2
(4) 1 into 3-4, hide behind 2
(5) 1 down table, hide behind 8
(6) kiss 1 off 9 into corner
(7) combo 1 into 9 for win
(8) combo 1 into 9, with possible kiss off 7
(9) hide behind 8, send 1 into 3-4
(10) hide 1 behind 3-4, with distance
(11) hide 1 behind 3-4 with slight break out
(12) hide 1 behind 3-4 with slight break out and roll forward
(13) 1 in corner, follow to break out 3-4
(14) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to long side of 2
(15) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to short side of 2
(16) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to short side of 2 for follow forward
(17) hit 1 into 3-4 cluster and hide behind 7-9
(18) hide CB from 1 using 7-9 blockers
(19) 1 in corner, follow for shape on 2
(20) after 1 and 2, kiss 3 off 4 to pocket 3-5 combo
(21) after 1 and 2, play safety on 3

other options suggested after filming:
(22) bank 1 into 4 to throw 3 into corner
(23) 1 in corner, follow with inside to break out 3-4 rail first for better shape on 2

Which one or two do you like best, and why?

Let's get some more people voting today. I'm curious to see what the majority of AZB think are the best options.

And if anybody else can think of other options (like 22 and 23), please share them.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[KenRobbins]

Your drill is too much hassle to set up. If you send me that complete projector system that has your drill built into it, I will do the second part of your exam completely through 4 times per week for one year (barring vacations), and the level finding first part of your exam twice per month.

You have permission to use my likeness to advertise your videos Assuming my score goes up.

No need to set the whole pattern up repeatability. After shooting one set of a pattern, you find your weakness and work on that particular shot. No need to be an A player or above to work on one shot. I believe if a player puts the work and heart into their weaknesses they will improve overall. An example on the 2 ball shot you were having difficulty with. I don't put much heart into it as I would like and felt I shot two of the shots a little sloppy. Try lining the outside of your shaft to contact point on object ball. Just an example. https://youtu.be/BUaLrQ1X330

Edit: Line the left side of your shaft to contact point on object ball.

 

[dr_dave]

My good doctor,

Excellent video my friend with many options. After viewing your diagram of how the balls are set up, it appears that the 4/3 combo may be dead (if they are frozen) by banking the 1 ball of the short cushion into the 4. If they are, I may like that option as well - maybe you can set them up and try it.

Again, great work, you are stroking the ball really well.

The other doctor Dave.

Dave,

I noticed you haven't voted on the poll yet. Please pick the options that you think are best for you as a solid player. I respect your opinion, and I am curious to see what you pick.

And thanks again for coming up with option 22!

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[iusedtoberich]

That's a poor excuse. Just put the donuts on your table and leave them there. It only takes 5 minutes to place the donuts (per the instructions document and video). And most of the donuts aren't even required. They just help make the exams go faster. The ball placements don't need to be perfect.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: Did you try the higher hit on the CB yet?

The first few attempts on my video I was lower on the CB. The later attempts I used a smoother stroke and a higher hit. But I really think the main difference was the ball placement.

Did you have your table marked with doughnuts for this shot? I was manually placing it each time. The reason I ask is the shot is extremely sensitive to ball placement. I would bet if you had it marked with a doughnut (and its still there) that if you move the CB 6mm to the left, you won't be able to hit the 3/4 cluster, no matter how high you hit the CB.

I also believe your diagram to be an 8' table (edit, actually it looks like a 7' table). I did not measure it, but by eye the ratio of the ball diameters to the diamond widths looks off. This can make a difference in my ball placement to yours.

On the other thread, you stated the angle was off for getting the 1 ball behind the 3/4 cluster and also hiding the CB behind the 8. My safe shot video confirms this, as I did get the CB behind the 8, but the OB went near the rack spot. Yet that is one of the leading poll choices here. My point of all of this, and which you well know, but many on this thread do not, is unless you are physically at the table, the angles do not show up properly on any diagram, or photograph, or even an over head accustats video shot.

 

[dr_dave]

The first few attempts on my video I was lower on the CB. The later attempts I used a smoother stroke and a higher hit. But I really think the main difference was the ball placement.

Did you have your table marked with doughnuts for this shot?

Yes. I marked all of the ball positions with clear plastic donuts so I wouldn't confuse them the BU Exam donuts. I placed them very carefully to match the ball layout in the original video and diagram as closely as possible. If you watch the new video again, you will see that all of the balls (including the CB) are in the same positions for every shot.

I was manually placing it each time. The reason I ask is the shot is extremely sensitive to ball placement. I would bet if you had it marked with a doughnut (and its still there) that if you move the CB 6mm to the left, you won't be able to hit the 3/4 cluster, no matter how high you hit the CB.

Agreed. CB placement can make a big difference on this shot; although if it is off just a little in any direction, sidepsin and throw can change the effective cut angle a fair amount, as I demonstrate in other shots.

I also believe your diagram to be an 8' table. I did not measure it, but by eye the ratio of the ball diameters to the diamond widths looks off.

The scale of my diagram is actually between an 8' and 9' scale (a little closer to a 9' scale). I made this decision a long time ago as a "compromise" scale. In retrospect, I probably should have set up everything in my diagram library for 9' (but I had an 8' table at the time, so the "compromise" seemed reasonable). Regardless, I doubt many people notice or care. At least everything is to scale, which is not the case with diagrams in all instructional products. :yikes:

This can make a difference in my ball placement to yours.

I don't see how. If you set up the balls on your 9' table based on the diagram, it should match the setup on my 9' table identically.

On the other thread, you stated the angle was off for getting the 1 ball behind the 3/4 cluster and also hiding the CB behind the 8.

That's correct. Although, with sidespin and throw, I was able to hide the CB behind the 8 and break out the cluster (barely).

unless you are physically at the table, the angles do not show up properly on any diagram, or photograph, or even an over head accustats video shot.

I agree that one's perspective on shot options can change when at the table; but IMO, the diagram should be enough for most players to judge the angles and what is possible.

Regards,
Dave

 

[PhilosopherKing]

.....................oversight

 

[dr_dave]

nobody suggested banking the1 1-rail into the tied-up balls, leaving the cueball behind the 8?

That's option 9 (hide behind 8, send 1 into 3-4). Here it is in the video.

Please vote on all of the options you like after watching the entire video.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

​

The following video demonstrates many options for approaching this table layout:

NV I.12 - VENT-II 9-Ball Layout With 21 Different Shot Options! Which Do You Like Best?​

Here are the options demonstrated in the video:
(1) 1 in side with long-side shape on 2
(2) 1 in corner with short-side shape on 2
(3) 1 in corner, playing for bank on 2
(4) 1 into 3-4, hide behind 2
(5) 1 down table, hide behind 8
(6) kiss 1 off 9 into corner
(7) combo 1 into 9 for win
(8) combo 1 into 9, with possible kiss off 7
(9) hide behind 8, send 1 into 3-4
(10) hide 1 behind 3-4, with distance
(11) hide 1 behind 3-4 with slight break out
(12) hide 1 behind 3-4 with slight break out and roll forward
(13) 1 in corner, follow to break out 3-4
(14) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to long side of 2
(15) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to short side of 2
(16) 1 in corner, draw off cushion to short side of 2 for follow forward
(17) hit 1 into 3-4 cluster and hide behind 7-9
(18) hide CB from 1 using 7-9 blockers
(19) 1 in corner, follow for shape on 2
(20) after 1 and 2, kiss 3 off 4 to pocket 3-5 combo
(21) after 1 and 2, play safety on 3

other options suggested after filming:
(22) bank 1 into 4 to throw 3 into corner
(23) 1 in corner, follow with inside to break out 3-4 rail first for better shape on 2

Which one or two do you like best, and why?

Here's a bump to try to get more people to vote so we can see what the majority of AZB thinks are the best options.

Also, if anybody else can think of other options (like 22 and 23), please share them.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[SlashingAxe]

I'd like to say 9 but for someone at my level to execute behind the 8 without leaving the cue ball peeking out may be a bit difficult as those safeties aren't for automatic for me yet. 10 would be the safest option for me but easier chance for my opponent to kick at. Drawing after the 1 and going for the 2 leaving myself a bit on the 8 ball side I'd try grazing off the 3 and try hiding behind the 9-7

 

[dr_dave]

I'd like to say 9 but for someone at my level to execute behind the 8 without leaving the cue ball peeking out may be a bit difficult as those safeties aren't for automatic for me yet. 10 would be the safest option for me but easier chance for my opponent to kick at. Drawing after the 1 and going for the 2 leaving myself a bit on the 8 ball side I'd try grazing off the 3 and try hiding behind the 9-7

Thank you for posting and voting. The best option definitely depends on the player. Hopefully, we get more votes and input from more people, of all levels, today.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

You could also shoot the 1 into the 8 and take the cue ball to the end rail by the 5. That's unlikely to leave a run out and is easy to play, but it's not very aggressive.

 

[dr_dave]

You could also shoot the 1 into the 8 and take the cue ball to the end rail by the 5. That's unlikely to leave a run out and is easy to play, but it's not very aggressive.

Good one. I just tried it a few times and it worked pretty well. This is definitely an easy and safe play. I just added the following to the first post:

(24) 1 into and/or behind 8, CB by 5

Anybody else have additional ideas beyond what is already listed and demonstrated?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I noticed that a lot of people so far have picked:

(9) hide behind 8, send 1 into 3-4

Here's a direct link to the shot in the video.

With the exact ball layout shown in the diagram, this shot was very difficult for me and it took many attempts to get a good outcome. In fact, I think this shot option was the most difficult of all the shot options except for the 9-ball combo shots, which were brutal.

I had to use left spin to the throw the 1 enough to make it work. And both the line of aim and speed had to be nearly perfect. The amount of partial forward roll required to stun the CB forward was also a little hard to judge. Now, if there were slightly more angle on the shot, I would agree that this would be an excellent option; but with the ball layout in the diagram, it was extremely tough. Millimeters make a big difference here.

If you picked this option, try it out at a table with the CB and 1 positioned exactly as shown in the diagram, and let me know if you still think it is a good choice.

Regards,
Dave

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip...

I don't see how. If you set up the balls on your 9' table based on the diagram, it should match the setup on my 9' table identically.

...snip...
Regards,
Dave

Yes, it makes a difference. Here is why. If I look at the ball diameter in your hybrid size table layout, and say its "1 graphical ball diameter" away from the diamond line, then go to my proper proportion 9' real table, and place the physical ball "1 physical ball diameter" away from that same diamond line, it places it in a different location than your hybrid table. For an extreme example of this, if you look at Bob Byrne's videos, where he would stand up to a pool table on a poster board that was 4 feet long, and had magnetic pool balls on it that he could move around that were 6" in diameter, you will see what I mean. That is an extreme, but shows exactly what happens and why it is impossible to duplicate a layout from one table size to another.

Alternatively, if I use the lines you drew connecting a few of the balls, to set the balls at a proper angle relative to a specific pocket, the ball locations won't correspond with the diamond grid on my table.

To make matters even worse, on some ball positions I'll use one method, and others another.

Maybe the only way you can accurately go from one table size to another is if you ONLY used the center of the balls for reference, relative to the diamond lines. And you never used ball outer diameters to measure spacing away from diamond lines or the rails. [Edit, this still would not be correct, as the spacing between the edges of the balls would be wrong, which would affect clusters and caroms, for example]

Diagram accuracy is a big pet peeve of mine. I don't believe ANY of the electronic ones, that are available today are proper. Only the cuetable.com one is, which we all know is down the toilet now. I contacted the developers of the other newer ones a couple of years ago, because they were some bastard size of table, and not a true 9'. And some of the other ones are 7' tables. I don't know if they ever fixed them.

I'd highly recommend for your instructional material going forward to make your drawings 100% to a 9' table. Don't have a bastard size table. IMO, of course

Another reason this eats me up, is for example these WWYD threads, I've sometimes taken 15 minutes to set up an "exact" layout with doughnuts. Then perform the shot. Maybe spend 30 min shooting it and several variations. Then spend another 30 minutes cutting the video and uploading it to youtube. And someone will always come on and say if you hit it different, it will work. Yes, that is true sometimes, if I don't know the shot. But many times, its really a function of the angle, and you simply can't tell the angle unless you are at the table. Its just discouraging when you know because all of the work you put in, in all of the above setup/shooting/recording/cutting/uploading, if a shot is on or not. Yet someone who only looked at the picture for 15 seconds says it goes.

 

[dr_dave]

If you set up the balls on your 9' table based on the diagram, it should match the setup on my 9' table identically.

Maybe the only way you can accurately go from one table size to another is if you ONLY used the center of the balls for reference, relative to the diamond lines.

Agreed. When I say set up the balls exactly as shown in the diagram, I mean with the centers of the balls positioned as shown, using the extra lines through ball centers for guidance (e.g., the lines I included through the CB and 1, and through the frozen 3-4).

Diagram accuracy is a big pet peeve of mine.

Me too. Although, I usually have a problem only when the diagram is not drawn "to scale" where the balls are obviously the wrong size (often way too large) ... for any size table.

Regards,
Dave