Would you call this great condition?

[PoppaSaun]

Anyone who has looked at the ebay listing can easily see in the VERY first photo that the butt sleeve had a poor finish. After looking at the photo, I'm convinced that the buyer was completely negligent.

I'm sure that first photo contributed to the final purchase price being less than the OP was willing to pay (his words).

 

[bowiebill]

Why won't you acknowledge that the seller, by offering you all of your money back plus shipping both ways, met his obligation?

I think that a guy with such an extensive and positive track record deserved the benefit of the doubt over sending out a cue that wasn't up to standard.

To be honest, I'm much more troubled that you threatened then followed through with issuing him a negative on ebay because he wouldn't contribute toward a refinish that he wasn't obligated to do.

That really comes across like a money-grab move.

Send it back for a full refund or keep it as it is.

You decided.

It should have ended there.

imo

best,
brian kc

I believe we differ on one important point. You feel offering money back because he could rip someone else off for more money, made lying about the cues true condition ok. I don’t feel offering a refund makes it ok to misrepresent the condition in the auction listing.

Again, if you held the cue, you’d understand there is just no possible way he didn’t know about the condition.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Since we're 18 pages in and everyone is weighing in, I may as well too.


Buying a used cue online ONLY works if the seller gives an accurate description of the cue, and is honest in disclosing all the flaws. A seller who claims that he/she wasn't aware of the damage to the finish on this cue is full of sh!t imo.

A lot of people here seem to be saying that once the refund was offered the buyer should take it and shut up, or keep the cue and shut up. That is completely outside the purpose of the OP as I read it. The whole point of this is to raise awareness of a person who sells cues online without an honest description. When you buy a used cue online without the ability to inspect it before the deal is done, you are putting your faith that the seller is describing the cue as best he can. That simply wasn't done and imo (and I'm sure nobody here cares about m.o., but you're reading it anyway) the seller should have been willing to pay for a butt sleeve refinish (a quick google search found Erwin Custom Cues will do it for $30) in order to make sure a customer was happy, not simply tell him to return it so he can try again on someone else.

With all due respect, your comment that the seller tells the buyer to return the cue instead "so he can try again on someone else" is rather shortsighted.

You don't sell to strangers on ebay thousands of times keeping a 100% positive rating because you're in the habit of trying to get away with sh1t.

imo

best,
brian kc

 

[bowiebill]

Anyone who has looked at the ebay listing can easily see in the VERY first photo that the butt sleeve had a poor finish. After looking at the photo, I'm convinced that the buyer was completely negligent.

I'm sure that first photo contributed to the final purchase price being less than the OP was willing to pay (his words).

Now that I know the condition I agree with you. I should have seen it. When I originally saw the picture I thought it was just funny lighting shining on it that made it look that way.

 

[Snooker Theory]

With all due respect, your comment that the seller tells the buyer to return the cue instead "so he can try again on someone else" is rather shortsighted.

You don't sell to strangers on ebay thousands of times keeping a 100% positive rating because you're in the habit of trying to get away with sh1t.

imo

best,
brian kc

So if ebay removes anyone's negative feedback, if a full refund is offered, is it really 100% positive feedback, no way of knowing right? Or am I missing something, Thanks for clarifying KC

 

[batalarms]

So if ebay removes anyone's negative feedback, if a full refund is offered, is it really 100% positive feedback, no way of knowing right? Or am I missing something, Thanks for clarifying KC

.
The OP used a neg feedback to threaten/extort money from the seller.That is AGAINST eBay rules.That is why his feedback was removed.He is only out to scam for more money .When you turn down a refund,you are basically saying,it is ok the way it is.

 

[JC]

Since we're 18 pages in and everyone is weighing in, I may as well too.


Buying a used cue online ONLY works if the seller gives an accurate description of the cue, and is honest in disclosing all the flaws. A seller who claims that he/she wasn't aware of the damage to the finish on this cue is full of sh!t imo.

A lot of people here seem to be saying that once the refund was offered the buyer should take it and shut up, or keep the cue and shut up. That is completely outside the purpose of the OP as I read it. The whole point of this is to raise awareness of a person who sells cues online without an honest description. When you buy a used cue online without the ability to inspect it before the deal is done, you are putting your faith that the seller is describing the cue as best he can. That simply wasn't done and imo (and I'm sure nobody here cares about m.o., but you're reading it anyway) the seller should have been willing to pay for a butt sleeve refinish (a quick google search found Erwin Custom Cues will do it for $30) in order to make sure a customer was happy, not simply tell him to return it so he can try again on someone else.

The guy has 1000s of positive feedbacks on Ebay with zero negative. I'm sure the OP believes he is doing a public service as you say but the fact pattern simply is not consistent with this.

Scott Lee put it as plainly as it could be put earlier in this thread mentioning the guy by his first name so he must know him but the OP continues to prove that the problem is with him not the seller with each additional post.

FWIW I don't see 600 dollars of value in that cue no matter what it's condition. I find it unattractive in design.

JC

 

[cswann1]

You don't sell to strangers on ebay thousands of times keeping a 100% positive rating because you're in the habit of trying to get away with sh1t.

I don't believe he's in the habit of trying to get away with things like this, due to his excellent feedback.
What I do believe is that he either was a) dishonest in this one sale, or b) incompetent in describing the cue. Whichever it is, imo the only way to resolve this and maintain professional integrity is to take a small hit and pay for the butt sleeve refinish at a competent repair shop of the sellers choice.

 

[KRJ]

Anyone who has looked at the ebay listing can easily see in the VERY first photo that the butt sleeve had a poor finish. After looking at the photo, I'm convinced that the buyer was completely negligent.

I'm sure that first photo contributed to the final purchase price being less than the OP was willing to pay (his words).

So, the OP is the bad guy even though the seller admitted he missed it. Yep, that's right, that is evidence at hand right now. He admitted it on this thread that he just missed it.

So, how could the buyer be negligent and not the owner. My god, at least attempt to look at both sides, and your side ADMITTED he did not accurately describe the cue, and thus should have made it right.

And if this was only about MONEY, like many of you have accused the OP, then why would he NOT take my money when I offered to cover the repairs? That's seems odd, no ? He REFUSED free money from me, up to $75 for the refinish. So, it appears most of you were wrong in regards to his motives. But, did that really surprise any of you with the insults you have thrown at the guy. I've responded numerous times in this thread and have not made one negative comment regarding the seller. If you got facts, state them, when you don't, throw a flame thrower and think you're smart.

Bottom line, is he bought a cue in Great Condition, the seller admitted he missed the "damage" and now the buyer has to refinish a cue, which many folks don't like refinishing cues. Heck, I got crap from some folks when I refinished by 35 year old Burton Spain

Personally, I would have sent the cue back, because I would not want a cue in this condition, if I spend money on stuff, It's going to be in GREAT condition or I don't bother. Unless I'm buying to be specifically refinish (Willie Hoppe)

But, the seller should have done someone to make this right other than taking it back in the hopes he could just resell it for more. Thus, who really win's on the deal? The seller, because of his honest mistake, is now going to make more money putting it back on Ebay. Sorry, that's seems a bit off to me. Why should he profit from his own mistake ??

Buyer: Hey, this cue has a some refinish issues.
Seller: Crap, I missed that (which he admitted)
Buyer: I need to get it fixed, gonna cost $100
Seller: I'll split the cost with you or you can send the cue back. Your choice.

At least you are negotiating and showing some signs of customer service. Now, it puts it back on the buyer of what he wants to do. I mean, my God, the seller ADMITTED he missed it, and thus, he now should have skin in the game.

 

[Koop]

So, the OP is the bad guy even though the seller admitted he missed it. Yep, that's right, that is evidence at hand right now. He admitted it on this thread that he just missed it.

So, how could the buyer be negligent and not the owner. My god, at least attempt to look at both sides, and your side ADMITTED he did not accurately describe the cue, and thus should have made it right.

And if this was only about MONEY, like many of you have accused the OP, then why would he NOT take my money when I offered to cover the repairs? That's seems odd, no ? He REFUSED free money from me, up to $75 for the refinish. So, it appears most of you were wrong in regards to his motives. But, did that really surprise any of you with the insults you have thrown at the guy. I've responded numerous times in this thread and have not made one negative comment regarding the seller. If you got facts, state them, when you don't, throw a flame thrower and think you're smart.

Bottom line, is he bought a cue in Great Condition, the seller admitted he missed the "damage" and now the buyer has to refinish a cue, which many folks don't like refinishing cues. Heck, I got crap from some folks when I refinished by 35 year old Burton Spain

Personally, I would have sent the cue back, because I would not want a cue in this condition, if I spend money on stuff, It's going to be in GREAT condition or I don't bother. Unless I'm buying to be specifically refinish (Willie Hoppe)

But, the seller should have done someone to make this right other than taking it back in the hopes he could just resell it for more. Thus, who really win's on the deal? The seller, because of his honest mistake, is now going to make more money putting it back on Ebay. Sorry, that's seems a bit off to me. Why should he profit from his own mistake ??

Buyer: Hey, this cue has a some refinish issues.
Seller: Crap, I missed that (which he admitted)
Buyer: I need to get it fixed, gonna cost $100
Seller: I'll split the cost with you or you can send the cue back. Your choice.

At least you are negotiating and showing some signs of customer service. Now, it puts it back on the buyer of what he wants to do. I mean, my God, the seller ADMITTED he missed it, and thus, he now should have skin in the game.

Perfectly stated, IMO

 

[PoppaSaun]

So, the OP is the bad guy even though the seller admitted he missed it. Yep, that's right, that is evidence at hand right now. He admitted it on this thread that he just missed it.

So, how could the buyer be negligent and not the owner. My god, at least attempt to look at both sides, and your side ADMITTED he did not accurately describe the cue, and thus should have made it right.

And if this was only about MONEY, like many of you have accused the OP, then why would he NOT take my money when I offered to cover the repairs? That's seems odd, no ? He REFUSED free money from me, up to $75 for the refinish. So, it appears most of you were wrong in regards to his motives. But, did that really surprise any of you with the insults you have thrown at the guy. I've responded numerous times in this thread and have not made one negative comment regarding the seller. If you got facts, state them, when you don't, throw a flame thrower and think you're smart.

Bottom line, is he bought a cue in Great Condition, the seller admitted he missed the "damage" and now the buyer has to refinish a cue, which many folks don't like refinishing cues. Heck, I got crap from some folks when I refinished by 35 year old Burton Spain

Personally, I would have sent the cue back, because I would not want a cue in this condition, if I spend money on stuff, It's going to be in GREAT condition or I don't bother. Unless I'm buying to be specifically refinish (Willie Hoppe)

But, the seller should have done someone to make this right other than taking it back in the hopes he could just resell it for more. Thus, who really win's on the deal? The seller, because of his honest mistake, is now going to make more money putting it back on Ebay. Sorry, that's seems a bit off to me. Why should he profit from his own mistake ??

Buyer: Hey, this cue has a some refinish issues.
Seller: Crap, I missed that (which he admitted)
Buyer: I need to get it fixed, gonna cost $100
Seller: I'll split the cost with you or you can send the cue back. Your choice.

At least you are negotiating and showing some signs of customer service. Now, it puts it back on the buyer of what he wants to do. I mean, my God, the seller ADMITTED he missed it, and thus, he now should have skin in the game.

I believe in personal accountability. The seller owned his mistake, but not in the way the buyer wanted. Guess what? The seller has no need to accept the buyers terms.

The real question is: Do you think the seller's offer to reimburse the buyer all money (including shipping) was unfair? Most people feel it was fair. I do, also.

This then comes back to the buyer who wouldn't take a very fair deal and tries to harm the seller's reputation. Not cool.

Then we have the buyer admitting that he saw the photo and knew there was something wrong with the photo or the cue. He didn't ask, just convinced himself that it was 'funny lighting', even though the rest of the photos are fine.

The OP bears much of the responsibility in this case.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I believe we differ on one important point. You feel offering money back because he could rip someone else off for more money, made lying about the cues true condition ok. I don’t feel offering a refund makes it ok to misrepresent the condition in the auction listing.

Again, if you held the cue, you’d understand there is just no possible way he didn’t know about the condition.

as I said in a previous post, you are very clever in how you word things....

BUT

what I highlighted above in blue is very telling.

I have 180 all positive iTraders and a 1623 all positive rating on ebay. I know first-hand how hard it can be to maintain ratings like these when dealing with all of the various personalities out there.

do you really think I condone lying and ripping people off?

The seller offered you *ALL OF YOUR MONEY* back.

#waypastvindictive

best,
brian kc

 

[batalarms]

I believe in personal accountability. The seller owned his mistake, but not in the way the buyer wanted. Guess what? The seller has no need to accept the buyers terms.

The real question is: Do you think the seller's offer to reimburse the buyer all money (including shipping) was unfair? Most people feel it was fair. I do, also.

This then comes back to the buyer who wouldn't take a very fair deal and tries to harm the seller's reputation. Not cool.

Then we have the buyer admitting that he saw the photo and knew there was something wrong with the photo or the cue. He didn't ask, just convinced himself that it was 'funny lighting', even though the rest of the photos are fine.

The OP bears much of the responsibility in this case.

^^^ what he said.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

So if ebay removes anyone's negative feedback, if a full refund is offered, is it really 100% positive feedback, no way of knowing right? Or am I missing something, Thanks for clarifying KC

yes, we can guess that with a guy who has 2700 positives, maybe half were negatives at some point. :slap: :grin-square:

 

[howardthedick]

next ebay

So, the OP is the bad guy even though the seller admitted he missed it. Yep, that's right, that is evidence at hand right now. He admitted it on this thread that he just missed it.

So, how could the buyer be negligent and not the owner. My god, at least attempt to look at both sides, and your side ADMITTED he did not accurately describe the cue, and thus should have made it right.

And if this was only about MONEY, like many of you have accused the OP, then why would he NOT take my money when I offered to cover the repairs? That's seems odd, no ? He REFUSED free money from me, up to $75 for the refinish. So, it appears most of you were wrong in regards to his motives. But, did that really surprise any of you with the insults you have thrown at the guy. I've responded numerous times in this thread and have not made one negative comment regarding the seller. If you got facts, state them, when you don't, throw a flame thrower and think you're smart.

Bottom line, is he bought a cue in Great Condition, the seller admitted he missed the "damage" and now the buyer has to refinish a cue, which many folks don't like refinishing cues. Heck, I got crap from some folks when I refinished by 35 year old Burton Spain

Personally, I would have sent the cue back, because I would not want a cue in this condition, if I spend money on stuff, It's going to be in GREAT condition or I don't bother. Unless I'm buying to be specifically refinish (Willie Hoppe)

But, the seller should have done someone to make this right other than taking it back in the hopes he could just resell it for more. Thus, who really win's on the deal? The seller, because of his honest mistake, is now going to make more money putting it back on Ebay. Sorry, that's seems a bit off to me. Why should he profit from his own mistake ??

Buyer: Hey, this cue has a some refinish issues.
Seller: Crap, I missed that (which he admitted)
Buyer: I need to get it fixed, gonna cost $100
Seller: I'll split the cost with you or you can send the cue back. Your choice.

At least you are negotiating and showing some signs of customer service. Now, it puts it back on the buyer of what he wants to do. I mean, my God, the seller ADMITTED he missed it, and thus, he now should have skin in the game.

Next time i but something on ebay ill get a hold of you chalk sales man after 20 years i need lots of help. lol

 

[bowiebill]

as I said in a previous post, you are very clever in how you word things....

BUT

what I highlighted above in blue is very telling.

I have 180 all positive iTraders and a 1623 all positive rating on ebay. I know first-hand how hard it can be to maintain ratings like these when dealing with all of the various personalities out there.

do you really think I condone lying and ripping people off?

The seller offered you *ALL OF YOUR MONEY* back.

#waypastvindictive

best,
brian kc

I feel the way I do, what you highlighted in blue, because of the responses I received from Greg. He came across like, I don’t care what you think, I want more money.

 

[bowiebill]

I believe in personal accountability. The seller owned his mistake, but not in the way the buyer wanted. Guess what? The seller has no need to accept the buyers terms.

The real question is: Do you think the seller's offer to reimburse the buyer all money (including shipping) was unfair? Most people feel it was fair. I do, also.

This then comes back to the buyer who wouldn't take a very fair deal and tries to harm the seller's reputation. Not cool.

Then we have the buyer admitting that he saw the photo and knew there was something wrong with the photo or the cue. He didn't ask, just convinced himself that it was 'funny lighting', even though the rest of the photos are fine.

The OP bears much of the responsibility in this case.

Greg did not own his mistake. He continued to lie about it, by saying he “missed a little spot in the finish”. If he owns it, by admitting he was intentionally dishonest in his auction listing, I’ll go back and erase everything I’ve said about this transaction.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

So if ebay removes anyone's negative feedback, if a full refund is offered, is it really 100% positive feedback, no way of knowing right? Or am I missing something, Thanks for clarifying KC

all kidding aside, ST; the large volume of positives are accompanied by comments that are in keeping with good business being conducted. Haven't read them, not gonna, but you get what I mean.

I think more important is that after reviewing the situation eBay concluded that the negative feedback was unwarranted and so they removed it.

To me, this is further evidence that the seller complied with what was required of him.

If the two parties came up with a compromise outside of ebay that was agreeable by both sides, like a refinish with a contribution from the seller, then that would have been great, but they didn't.

Obv that didn't sit well with the buyer.

best,
brian kc

 

[batalarms]

The OP has done this kind of thing before.It is on his post on FB.
He saw the words,'Great Condition' and he admits to seeing the blemishes.With these 2 things,he knew that he could trap the seller by saying,'Not As Described'
Then he tried to use neg feedback as a weapon,to get more money back.
This clown is every traders nightmare.That's why I am writing all this.The SAME thing has happened to me on eBay.It makes me VERY uncomfortable.
Fortunately when it happened to me,my buyer kept the item and went away after I offered a return.This guy is even more extreme.
#vindictive
#extortionist

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Greg did not own his mistake. He continued to lie about it, by saying he “missed a little spot in the finish”. If he owns it, by admitting he was intentionally dishonest in his auction listing, I’ll go back and erase everything I’ve said about this transaction.

#iwannastopextortingbutcant

#yousayyourealiarillsayweregood