I was playing a person the other day and I noticed that he, on certain cut shots, approximately 40 degrees or more, would first point his cue towards the target pocket in back of the OB about one inch from the OB. Then without lifting his cue he would pivot over center CB. On occasion this would leave a chalk mark on the table and he would then proceed to aim for the chalk mark and pocket the ball. My question is this. Would that be legal in tournament play? He was having great success with this method and if it's legal, I would certainly like to know.
Rules question
- Thread starter Art Amato
- Start date
Its much the same as I have seen players point to a point on the rail with the tip of their cue for a bank and leave a chalk mark.
It is illegal no matter what is said to justify it.
You cannot mark a rail or cloth with chalk or the use of a piece of chalk or any object.
Should call him on it, wet your finger and remove the chalk mark and then said, "ok, now shoot".
Oh, and then give him a wry smile so he knows for certain that you are onto his game.
People can do it totally unintentional on occasion but when it becomes a habit, then its obvious, right.
Can you call a Foul, probably not, but during a Tournament, you can bring it to a Refs attention pretty quick.
For a small example, we play against one team, I caught all of them Racking the balls, one ball forward of the spot. They were also in the habit, if they Fouled, would grab the cue ball and hand it to their opponent before the cue ball stopped rolling. No one called a Foul but I sat down beside their captain and told him that they had been around long enuff to know better than that and the next infraction, Fouls would be called.
I also made sure that I told every team that I could to watch out for any antics from them. Doesn't take long for word to get around of any improprieties. Most teams already knew about them.
Bout the best you can do short of warping a bar cue around his fore head.
It is illegal no matter what is said to justify it.
You cannot mark a rail or cloth with chalk or the use of a piece of chalk or any object.
Should call him on it, wet your finger and remove the chalk mark and then said, "ok, now shoot".
Oh, and then give him a wry smile so he knows for certain that you are onto his game.
People can do it totally unintentional on occasion but when it becomes a habit, then its obvious, right.
Can you call a Foul, probably not, but during a Tournament, you can bring it to a Refs attention pretty quick.
For a small example, we play against one team, I caught all of them Racking the balls, one ball forward of the spot. They were also in the habit, if they Fouled, would grab the cue ball and hand it to their opponent before the cue ball stopped rolling. No one called a Foul but I sat down beside their captain and told him that they had been around long enuff to know better than that and the next infraction, Fouls would be called.
I also made sure that I told every team that I could to watch out for any antics from them. Doesn't take long for word to get around of any improprieties. Most teams already knew about them.
Bout the best you can do short of warping a bar cue around his fore head.
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He's using a simple ghost ball contact method. He can do the same thing without marking the table. But he is marking the table and that is illegal in most all rule sets I've ever heard of.
Ghost ball aiming works fairly well. But all the pivot dragging is kind of overkill once you've found the spot on the table you're aiming at.
Ghost ball aiming works fairly well. But all the pivot dragging is kind of overkill once you've found the spot on the table you're aiming at.
I have Laser Radar vision anyway, so once I lock onto that spot, its over.
Yeah right, coming from a guy who now uses magnifiers to read labels and do League score sheets.
Yeah right, coming from a guy who now uses magnifiers to read labels and do League score sheets.
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That way of aiming is fine, BUT if he is putting a mark on the table, that's illegal. FOUL!
Lots of people sometimes use their cue to aim. You gotta have large cojones to jump up and call a foul because there's a bit of chalk on the table after your opponent puts their cue tip down on it.
I'm skeptical that leaving a mark for the ghost ball really would help anyway. You'd have to accurately find the center of the ghost ball and leave your mark right there, which I doubt most people could do accurately. People can aim far better without a dumb mark like that.
One time after using my cue to see the line to the pocket, my opponent, a well-known nit in my league, got up as I was down on my shot and wiped the table off behind the object ball. I didn't say anything, but my teammates said I should have called a foul on him for interrupting me while I was down on the shot. That was the first I'd ever even thought about the possibility of marking the table. Some people are just shysters, I guess.
I'm skeptical that leaving a mark for the ghost ball really would help anyway. You'd have to accurately find the center of the ghost ball and leave your mark right there, which I doubt most people could do accurately. People can aim far better without a dumb mark like that.
One time after using my cue to see the line to the pocket, my opponent, a well-known nit in my league, got up as I was down on my shot and wiped the table off behind the object ball. I didn't say anything, but my teammates said I should have called a foul on him for interrupting me while I was down on the shot. That was the first I'd ever even thought about the possibility of marking the table. Some people are just shysters, I guess.
i do this at times
I am not looking for a mark on the table. I leave the tip on the table, then with the cue butt over the object ball i have my head at shooting level. I then look at where the edge of the ferrule is on the object ball, rail, etc. This is just a second check point for me when I get down on the shot.
I am not looking for a mark on the table. I leave the tip on the table, then with the cue butt over the object ball i have my head at shooting level. I then look at where the edge of the ferrule is on the object ball, rail, etc. This is just a second check point for me when I get down on the shot.
Lots of people sometimes use their cue to aim. You gotta have large cojones to jump up and call a foul because there's a bit of chalk on the table after your opponent puts their cue tip down on it.
I'm skeptical that leaving a mark for the ghost ball really would help anyway. You'd have to accurately find the center of the ghost ball and leave your mark right there, which I doubt most people could do accurately. People can aim far better without a dumb mark like that.
One time after using my cue to see the line to the pocket, my opponent, a well-known nit in my league, got up as I was down on my shot and wiped the table off behind the object ball. I didn't say anything, but my teammates said I should have called a foul on him for interrupting me while I was down on the shot. That was the first I'd ever even thought about the possibility of marking the table. Some people are just shysters, I guess.
I concur.
If my opponent is accidentally leaving a small mark on the table it doesnt bother me, in fact it wouldnt bother me if he wanted to mark his ghost ball location, more power to them if they think it will help.
You are right except with one exception. It is legal in APA league and tournament play, to use a piece of chalk as an aim point when doing banks and kicks. The chalk cube has to be on the hard surface of the rail, not on the rail cloth. I have done this legally when coaching lower level players. No marking of the cloth though.
This post is old, someone for some reason decided to post about Jay's book and bumped it up LOL.
Do you mean APA tournaments? Because in normal tournaments you can't use anything to mark a shot.
Yes APA. FROM THE team manual.....
"9. MARKING THE TABLE Marking refers to a physical alteration in the appearance of the cloth on a pool table. No one is allowed to mark the cloth. For example, using chalk to draw a line or wetting your finger to dampen the cloth is not allowed. It is permissible to set a piece of chalk on the hard surface of the rail."
It's used to help lower skill level players, though anyone can do it. There is nothing in the manual saying it has to be removed before the shot.
I doubt he is marking the table to his advantage. He may think he is, but I've tried it for practice and it is more distracting than it is helping.
Are you sure he is intentionally marking the table? Even that is hard to do without putting chalk on the edge of the tip.
It's still against the rules, either way, so you could just tell him that and see how he responds, then hang him!
Jeff Livingston
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You guys do realize that the OP resurrected this thread from 2014?
He just wanted to let Jay know that he read his book. Not sure why he didn't start a new thread?
He just wanted to let Jay know that he read his book. Not sure why he didn't start a new thread?