10 ball, world skill level test, let's find out how players rate.

[buckshotshoey]

I read through this thread and the others concerning this topic and although I might not see through this concept completely, I think it is at least a bit...ambitious.

Skill tests are fun and I for myself like a challenge, although I already know I won`t get a score worth mentioning.

But I want to draw attention to the fallacy concerning the pro status. The points made here have, although it is claimed to be a worldwide concept, a very american view on things.

The steps from amateur to semi pro to pro, are very well developed in other countries. There are regionals and nationals and the best players are drafted for the national team. Being part of the national team is the basis for governmental fundings, sponsorships and access to coaches and training facilities.
Maintaining this pro/national team status is often linked to earning medals/ titels in “official” World-European- Asian Championships or established tours or tournaments. So many players and national organisations might hesitate to accept an alternative pro tour or World Championship.

But I won`t deny, that IF the big money, that is promised to go along with this new events, will come, some players will be attracted to compete.

That said, as I understand a certain part of the prize fund, at least in the beginning, will be collected through marketing the certified new playing equipment….tables, cloth, glue, maybe ball sets etc..

So you will need people/ officials/ fitters, who control all the tables worldwide to prevent cheating or manipulation to give everyone a fair chance to be part of the race to the tournaments and the more I think about it, I guess the only way to do so is to have official referees, who monitor every single attempt at this ability test...again, worldwide.

Another thing with which I don`t agree is the potential spread of this new “official” playing materials. Most countries just have a handful of pro players, so there is no need for new tables in every single club or pool hall.
If I would be a national official and I would hop on this idea, I would say:” Ok, there is this new Pro Tour and I want our players to be part of it. We set up ONE table in our academy/training center and let it get approved, so all our established pros, aspiring semipros and young talents can practice there and can get their scores submitted to the ranking list!”

Which is the same way it is handled right now, because most clubs and pool halls can`t afford to buy and maintain professional equipment. Granted, there will be some private citizens or club owner, who want to have the new setup too, but I wouldn`t calculate with a wide spread of the new equipment, but one to five tables per country.

So as much as I would love to see a worldwide Pro Tour, a meaningful World Ranking and overall a revaluation of professional pool, I highly doubt, that these plans will be the answer to the ultimate question of Billiards, the universe, and everything.

I have a problem with your post..... the US government has no business funding ANY sport! Legally or ethically.

New tables might not be necessary. A Gold Crown could work if it can be altered to the same playing specifications. It does sound like Glen is trying to make a monopoly for Diamond Tables though. Not that I would mind that. But we need competition from the billiard table industry, as well as the players.

 

[Oze147]

I have a problem with your post..... the US government has no business funding ANY sport! Legally or ethically.

I know, that`s why I said this whole plan comes from an US view on things and because of that, I see everything a bit critically.
That doesn`t mean, that everywhere outside the US everything is fine, everybody is happy and being a pro poolplayer is a cakewalk.
I think many pros would welcome an organization like WorldSnooker, but for pool, with official tour, tournaments, secured payouts etc.
But since there are already established structures in many countries, it might be quite hard to convince people, that this is the new way to go.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I know, that`s why I said this whole plan comes from an US view on things and because of that, I see everything a bit critically.
That doesn`t mean, that everywhere outside the US everything is fine, everybody is happy and being a pro poolplayer is a cakewalk.
I think many pros would welcome an organization like WorldSnooker, but for pool, with official tour, tournaments, secured payouts etc.
But since there are already established structures in many countries, it might be quite hard to convince people, that this is the new way to go.

Build the money, and they will come! Lol

 

[realkingcobra]

OZE147 you're kind of missing the whole point about the use of the Diamond table as the test table. The major problems with pool tables today, is trying to pick out 500 pool tables spread out all over the world that play relatively the same, as different tables play differently, especially after installers have been working on them for a few years, therefore the skill level test scores can not only vary based on the players own skills, but that exact same player would end up with different scores depending on the table the player took the skill level test on. Look at it this way for a minute. Are all soccer fields the same size? Are all tennis courts the same size. Are all golf cups the same size? Isn't the throw line playing darts the same distance from all dart boards? Are all dart boards the same size? Are all bowling lanes the same size? All drag racing tracks today are now, 1,000 meters instead of a 1/4 mile. Are official soccer balls the same size?

I hope you're starting to understand my point because pool tables, even though they all have 6 pockets on them, are all over the place with pocket sizes, miter angles, cushions, cloth. There is no uniformity in the billiards industry because although there's all kinds of organizations out there that would lead you to believe there is official rules, official referees, official this, and official that, and it's a bunch of bullshit. Without at least 1 official pool table in which all play the same, how can anyone expect to have a consistent rating system that players must first take in order to determine their ranking?? And i already stated I'm not pushing the sale of Diamond pool tables, hell if a pool room is full of Olhausen pool tables, why do i care if they play on them in their area tournaments? They're still going to play equally the same to everyone playing on them in that area of play, but unless that have at least one Diamond ProAm in house, or at least somewhere in the area, how is anyone going to be able to perform a fair skill test, all the Olhausen pool tables may have 5" corner pockets, which would greatly change the points on a skill level test, making a player with the same skills look lower rated if that player took the skill level test on a table with 4" corner pockets. How tight the cloth is installed on a pool table, as well as the make of the cloth can effect the scores of a player. This industry is NOT about uniformity, it's ALL about sales and nothing more. Ask yourself and be honest, why isn't there any schools to teach the pool table mechanic trade to? Why doesn't pool table mechanic have to prove they know what they're doing before they start working on pool tables? Why don't pool table manufactures teach pool table mechanics how to work on the products they sell? Why don't cloth manufactures have instructions detaling how to install the product they sell. When someone says i install the cloth tight, well....how tight is tight? Why isn't there a set way of installing the same exact brand of cloth the same on all pool tables, because 10 installers are going to install it 10 different ways, which effects the overall way the cloth plays. Why is it that i can install the cloth on a Riley 6'×12' snooker table so tight, that in 2 years won't come loose, where as the Professional Outfitters in the UK have to come back at least twice to restretch the cloth because it comes loose?

You mentioned the lack of Pros in your area, hate to break it to you but, no area is guaranteed to have Pro level players, they're not picked based on population numbers, they're picked because their test scores show up at the top of the skill level rating charts.

Let me ask you another question. Let's say pool was going to be allowed into the Olympics ok, who's going to provide the OFFICIAL pool tables to the Olympics? When you figure that out, you'll start understanding this industry a little better, because the bottom line is allways about sales....and nothing about the players, as long as there's no world organized pool players association, then the players will never have a voice, only their wallets!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

I have a problem with your post..... the US government has no business funding ANY sport! Legally or ethically.

New tables might not be necessary. A Gold Crown could work if it can be altered to the same playing specifications. It does sound like Glen is trying to make a monopoly for Diamond Tables though. Not that I would mind that. But we need competition from the billiard table industry, as well as the players.

Don't have to be new tables, Diamond is selling 9ft ProAms all over the world and has been doing so for several years. It's easier to back up in time, and pick 100 tables already in use, on location, than it is to rebuild what's already been built and sold by any other pool table manufactures. For example, let's say the Olympics decided to include pool at the next Olympics, and who ever picked up the contract to supply 100 9ft pool tables, would also be required to set the table's up within a 2 day span and have them ready to play on in day 3, and they all are required to have 4 1/2" Pro cut pockets. If i started NOW i couldn't possibly find, rebuild, ship, set up and be ready to go on day 3 for the Olympics. Other manufactures might be interested in the contract as well, but when it comes right down to it, no manufacture is going to be able to set up 100 3 piece slate 9fts in 2 days, new tables at that, and be ready for play on day 3 and then there's the question of what are they going to do with 100 now USED pool tables wben they go to take them out after they're done using them. So when it comes to fixing used pool tables up to play like a Diamond Pro Am so it can be used as a test table, at 61 years old, I'm not even close to being interested, and the pool table mechanics all ready out there working on pool tables for the most part, have NO idea what they're doing so calling on them to rebuild a used table into a test table is pretty much out the window. As far as the official table of the Olympics, all the manufacturers would just love Diamond taking on the job because then they don't have to deal with their used pool tables, AND they get to make sales riding on Diamond's back promoting pool at the next Olympics.....sales baby, that's what it's all about.

 

[Black-Balled]

I'm always getting at least 4 balls past the side pockets on the break, but what happens when they hit the rails and go back up table? For example 5 balls go past the side pockets, but 2 of them hit the rails and go back up table and are no longer resting past the side pockets? Do I count that as 3 or does it count that they initially passed the side pockets?...Thanks!

You are clearly breaking from the wrong end of the table.

Try breaking from the head of the table.

Then balls will travel from the foot end to the head end...down to up.

Simple fix.

 

[BasementDweller]

The whole thing sounds like a pre-FargoRate idea to me. Fargo is doing a fine job of sorting out our players. The only people that don't agree with this are those that aren't capable of understanding it.

So you're trying to out think the room here.

 

[realkingcobra]

The whole thing sounds like a pre-FargoRate idea to me. Fargo is doing a fine job of sorting out our players. The only people that don't agree with this are those that aren't capable of understanding it.

So you're trying to out think the room here.

hmmmm....so your saying Fargo rates can skill level test a player BEFORE they even play another player? Really????

 

[realkingcobra]

The whole thing sounds like a pre-FargoRate idea to me. Fargo is doing a fine job of sorting out our players. The only people that don't agree with this are those that aren't capable of understanding it.

So you're trying to out think the room here.

How does a player get a Fargorate who's never played anyone, who's never seen the player play?

 

[realkingcobra]

Carlo Biado defeated countryman Ronald Garcia 13-5 to win the world 9-ball title in Doha, Qatar Thursday.

Biado, who pocketed $30,000 (P1.5 million) for the victory, became the first Filipino to win the 9-ball crown since Francisco “Django” Bustamante in 2010.

The pay for winning the so called world 9 ball championship paid a whopping $30,000....WOW

Jason Shaw wins the US Open 9ball event and gets paid $40,000.....do you SEE something wrong here????

And NEITHER player can earn one more dime defending their title against any challengers.....why not?

 

[realkingcobra]

AND if Carlo Biado don't play in the next world championships, no big deal, whithout ever having to be beat, he'll lose his title to the next tournament winner....why is that?

 

[GB Basher]

I applaud the enthusiasm, I really wish the state of Pool was enhanced.
I admit I don't have any better ideas, but that doesn't mean alot.
I hope the idea works, but believe it will struggle.
It is full of 'American thinking', Which is to be expected really.
Firstly, Be the top man if you wish, but form a group of like minded people from around the world to sort out the details to give this a better chance of working.
Be honest with yourself, and admit your strengths and weaknesses.There is no way you know the mindset and mentality of others around the world.

So this is meant to be a global thing....
You've already stated that this forums members will not give you any quality players. Where is the global advertising so the real top players actually know anything about this.
How can they take a skill test if they don't know anything.
Is there a website?
Where's the marketing?
Is there a Chinese translation available?

Whilst creating good discussion, and asking AZ'ers to take a test as a gauge pin for their own game. This alone will change nothing.

Please enlighten me of your plans beyond AZB.
Thanks & good luck.

 

[realkingcobra]

That said, as I understand a certain part of the prize fund, at least in the beginning, will be collected through marketing the certified new playing equipment….tables, cloth, glue, maybe ball sets etc..

No, you don't understand, I've never said anything about raising money from tables, cloth, balls etc... that's what you're assuming is happening.

Let me be clear, so you fully understand. I'm building a video training library for the purpose of educating pool table installers for the purpose of giving anyone who WANTS to improve their knowledge the professional training and education to do so, as this schooling does NOT exist to learn from anywhere in the world. NO pool table manufactures have a training program to teach how to work on the pool tables they sell. NO cloth manufactures have a training program to show installers how to install their product correctly. NO cushion manufactures offer a training program to show how to correctly install the products they sell.

Want to test me, call anyone you want, and ask them how tight do you install the bed cloth on a pool table, go ahead, call and ask. The answer is just going to be "tight". Only problem is, 10 different installers are going to install the cloth "tight" in 10 different ways. I teach how to install cloth repeatability, meaning all 10 installers will install the bed cloths the exact same way based on their own individual strengths.

All I'm offering is free passage to knowledge for the cost of a 1 quart or 1 gallon can of my glue, in which will be needed to perform the task of installing the bed cloths and cushions, that's all. I get to do two things this way, 1 being teaching all those in this line of work how to perform the job and turn out professional results, and 2 selling my privatized glue, of which I'll take the proceeds from if theirs enough, and start the building process of straightening out this sport so it can stop being a sales platform for all those that profit from is but give nothing back.

Now do you understand?

 

[Black-Balled]

AND if Carlo Biado don't play in the next world championships, no big deal, whithout ever having to be beat, he'll lose his title to the next tournament winner....why is that?

Aren't all big events like that rhough? Tennis, marathons, ice skating, olympics?

 

[Z-Nole]

So what's the one pocket test?

 

[Black-Balled]

So what's the one pocket test?

State-issued handicapped parking permit which hangs from rear view mirror.

 

[Dan_B]

... Ha ....






I'm sorry

 

[BasementDweller]

hmmmm....so your saying Fargo rates can skill level test a player BEFORE they even play another player? Really????

Nope. What I'm saying is you can think of any fancy skill test that you want and it will never gather as much information as is baked into an actual competition between two players. The real beauty of FargoRate lies in its simplicity. Record the results of enough matches and the results speak for themselves. I know you think you have a better way of figuring out who the best players are BUT you don't!

 

[tim913]

I'm finding that this is all about the break, at least for me. If I break soft enough to try to spread the balls and have a shot at the 1, I lose on bonus points. If I just bust them I always get my 4 bonus points but can't control the 1 and CB. For example in one set, breaking hard, I broke, got my bonus points and ran out for a '14'. The next game same thing. Now I have '28' in 1st two games. The next 6 games I broke, got my 4 bonus points, and had absolutely no shot at the next ball, so the 6 games combined for a total of '24'. I'm now just trying to take enough off the break to have some control and still get the bonus points, but it's hard to do both, at least for me it is. In real competition I would just play safe and keep control of the table, but that's not an option here.

 

[Black-Balled]

Keep.practising, lil buddy.

We aren't ready for the Tour just yet.

I'm finding that this is all about the break, at least for me. If I break soft enough to try to spread the balls and have a shot at the 1, I lose on bonus points. If I just bust them I always get my 4 bonus points but can't control the 1 and CB. For example in one set, breaking hard, I broke, got my bonus points and ran out for a '14'. The next game same thing. Now I have '28' in 1st two games. The next 6 games I broke, got my 4 bonus points, and had absolutely no shot at the next ball, so the 6 games combined for a total of '24'. I'm now just trying to take enough off the break to have some control and still get the bonus points, but it's hard to do both, at least for me it is. In real competition I would just play safe and keep control of the table, but that's not an option here.