Rules Question - Gambling Scenario

C

cue4me

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing 9-ball, cue ball fouls only, and giving the 6 and the breaks. I get a bad leave on the 6 and push the 8 up so that it blocks any shot at the 6 ball other than a return safety. The 6 is about 1 and a half diamonds below the side pocket, about 1/2" off the cushion and the 8 is just above it and about 3/4" off the cushion. My opponent decides to place the c/b close to the 6 so that he can just graze it and have the cue ball travel across table, past the side pocket, and back to the same side cushion with the 8 effectively blocking the hit. While he is placing the c/b I notice that his hand is a little unsteady and decide to look closely at the ball placement. As he is making fine adjustments to the c/b, the c/b comes to rest, frozen to the 6 ball. I stop him at this point and tell him that the balls are frozen, therefore the c/b has contacted the o/b and this is a foul. His answer is that yes, the balls are frozen, but the o/b didn't move and this is therefore not a foul. Eventually he conceded the point and I then shot the same shot he was considering.

I guess I'm just looking for confirmation that this is indeed a foul and I was correct in calling it on him.

Thanks for any input you may make.

Al
 
cue4me said:
Playing 9-ball, cue ball fouls only, and giving the 6 and the breaks. I get a bad leave on the 6 and push the 8 up so that it blocks any shot at the 6 ball other than a return safety. The 6 is about 1 and a half diamonds below the side pocket, about 1/2" off the cushion and the 8 is just above it and about 3/4" off the cushion. My opponent decides to place the c/b close to the 6 so that he can just graze it and have the cue ball travel across table, past the side pocket, and back to the same side cushion with the 8 effectively blocking the hit. While he is placing the c/b I notice that his hand is a little unsteady and decide to look closely at the ball placement. As he is making fine adjustments to the c/b, the c/b comes to rest, frozen to the 6 ball. I stop him at this point and tell him that the balls are frozen, therefore the c/b has contacted the o/b and this is a foul. His answer is that yes, the balls are frozen, but the o/b didn't move and this is therefore not a foul. Eventually he conceded the point and I then shot the same shot he was considering.

I guess I'm just looking for confirmation that this is indeed a foul and I was correct in calling it on him.

Thanks for any input you may make.

Al
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I would agree that when in the process of placing the CB with BIH, if you freeze (touch) another OB with the CB, I would consider that a foul. For clarification of your initial post, when you say you pushed the 8-ball up to the 6-ball so he wouldn't have a shot on the 6, did you shoot the CB in to the 8-ball, or just simply push the 8-ball with the your cue tip and not by hitting the CB in to the 8-ball? If you did the latter, I would consider that an unsportsmanlike foul, loss of game.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I would agree that when in the process of placing the CB with BIH, if you freeze (touch) another OB with the CB, I would consider that a foul. For clarification of your initial post, when you say you pushed the 8-ball up to the 6-ball so he wouldn't have a shot on the 6, did you shoot the CB in to the 8-ball, or just simply push the 8-ball with the your cue tip and not by hitting the CB in to the 8-ball? If you did the latter, I would consider that an unsportsmanlike foul, loss of game.
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Chris,

I used the cue ball to shoot the 8 up next to the 6. I would agree that if I did it with just my stick it would be unsportsmanlike conduct and not only should I lose the game, but I should be smacked in the head.

BTW, I have been in your beautiful room three times. Once when you had nothing but triple shimmed Connolly Ultimates (great playing tables) and the next day while my wife visited Cheap Joe's. The next time you had one Ultimate left and one Gabriel table and were waiting for the remainder of the Gabriel shipment the next day.
 
cue4me said:
Playing 9-ball, cue ball fouls only, ...
Thanks for any input you may make.

Al
Click to expand...
Your best official source to answer this particular question is BCAPL/CSI rule book. The World Standardized Rules assume that you are playing all fouls so the details of "cue ball fouls only" (which is a misnomer) are not covered well. Here is the section from BCAPL/CSI rule 1-38 that applies:

4. When placing or moving the cue ball, it is a foul if you touch or disturb any object ball with the cue ball or your hand that holds the cue ball. Your "hand" is defined as including the wrist up to a point where a wristwatch would normally be worn. Your opponent has no restoration option.

​
 
cue4me said:
Chris,

I used the cue ball to shoot the 8 up next to the 6. I would agree that if I did it with just my stick it would be unsportsmanlike conduct and not only should I lose the game, but I should be smacked in the head.

BTW, I have been in your beautiful room three times. Once when you had nothing but triple shimmed Connolly Ultimates (great playing tables) and the next day while my wife visited Cheap Joe's. The next time you had one Ultimate left and one Gabriel table and were waiting for the remainder of the Gabriel shipment the next day.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's been a long time ago. We now have eight 9-foot Gabriels, one 10-foot Gabriels and one Diamond Smart 7-foot table in the small room where we used to have all the video games. Please come back if you get a chance, and introduce yourself.

Regarding your response, I was just clarifying you didn't do what it kind of sounded like you did by your post. We have seen players who didn't understand the rules, who, after the break when the 9-ball ends up almost next to a pocket but there is no way to get to knock it out even on a bad hit, that I've seen players think it was OK to just knock the 9-ball out of the pocket with their cue.
 
Rules Question ?Gambling Scenario posted earlier

This thread made me chuckle.
Here on AZ, it seems the majority of people are in favor of following the rules.
Over on One pocket.org the majority thinks it is cheesy if you call fouls and that it's a gentleman's game and you should have the attitude of," do whatever is "right'.
Most agree with this, especially if it is easy action, because you might make your customer angry.
I guess if you are gambling for anything substantial, you should have a rulebook with you and agree to abide by it, or agree to use an arbitrator and abide by their ruling
or agree that if you can't agree , go to the parking lot. Whatever
But, if you are playing in a tournament , it seems obvious to me , that there must be rules and they must be followed by all .
{Some of the people on OP.org think that even if there are tournament rules , you should do what you think is right?????}
 
giving someone the 6 means you are way better than him and probably robbing him anyway. so maybe he should just quit you for good as you may seem too greedy.

it wasnt a shooting foul so why call it. especially as it was so close. anyone calls something like that on me loses me for good if the game is close and only gets to play in the future when i have him locked up good.

but you are right it is a foul by the rule book.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Your best official source to answer this particular question is BCAPL/CSI rule book. The World Standardized Rules assume that you are playing all fouls so the details of "cue ball fouls only" (which is a misnomer) are not covered well. Here is the section from BCAPL/CSI rule 1-38 that applies:

4. When placing or moving the cue ball, it is a foul if you touch or disturb any object ball with the cue ball or your hand that holds the cue ball. Your "hand" is defined as including the wrist up to a point where a wristwatch would normally be worn. Your opponent has no restoration option.

​
Click to expand...

Is the distinction between "touch" and "disturb" made to prevent players from trying to change ball positions by slamming the cue ball down when placing it?
 
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