CTE - A - Outside Pivot - Only for straight shots?

Vorpal Cue said:
Here's all the info you need, straight from Stan. The video begins at 4:55 where he starts with a 0* shot and gives the visuals and sweeps for cuts to 49*.
https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4?t=295
If you watch it to the end and you'll also see that he talks about bridge distances which are important for a manual pivot. When you develop a sweep they're what you're comfortable with. Good luck practicing!! :rotflmao1:
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This is one of his best videos.
One of the delights of using this is what Stan said (probably overlooked by most)..."I just keep doing the same thing over and over".
I wonder if any big time pool CTE aiming skeptic has ever showed up at his residence in an attempt to disprove this.
I doubt it.
:thumbup2:
 
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Dan White said:
So it appears the answer is that a straight in uses the A-inside perception and any cut shot approaching a half ball hit also uses A-inside perception. Well I thought that was the answer but I have trouble with it. I was hoping Jucas would be able to make it work and relate how he did so.

Thanks for the link.
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It sounds like you're still confused. There is no inside perception. The cuts on the video are left cuts and use an A perception with an outside manual pivot. He says he's using a right sweep which is a movement from the outside of the shot line for a left cut. It's when he gets to the 30* shot before the switch is made to the inside pivot or left sweep.
 
From a CTE video on the internet.

cte.JPG
 
Vorpal Cue said:
It sounds like you're still confused. There is no inside perception. The cuts on the video are left cuts and use an A perception with an outside manual pivot. He says he's using a right sweep which is a movement from the outside of the shot line for a left cut. It's when he gets to the 30* shot before the switch is made to the inside pivot or left sweep.
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I know that. I was using the terminology of the OP and I think sacman. OP wanted to use an inside pivot and sacman uses the outside pivot while Stan does the sweep. I should have said an A-outside pockets straight in shots and an A-outside also pockets everything else up to about a half ball hit.

Anyway, have fun with it.
 
Yep, you got it. Just wanted to clear up the terminology for those that are new to the system.

The C visual is used the same way for cuts to the right. Since there was some confusion about the C in a previous thread, I thought it worth mentioning also.
 
Dan White said:
Jucas - did you get a satisfactory answer to your question? If so, I'm kind of curious what explanation cleared up the issue for you.
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Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I guess it is somewhat cleared up.

So according to what is being said; yes, the A-Outside (thickening pivot/sweep) can be used for both straight-in shots and slight angles.

After a certain point, the angle will get too thin and require a thining or inside sweep/pivot.
 
This is one of the most confusing aspects of CTE for me; choosing which direction of the pivot. Let me ask you:

Let's say I get my perception, and fixed cueball, i.e. CTE - ETA.

Then imagine I was going drop down and hit the ball without a sweep or pivot?

I ask myself "will this hit be thick or thin"?

If the hit will be thin, do outside pivot, if the hit will be thick do a inside pivot?


sacman said:
I've been at my CTE journey for about a month. With help from others, and intense, repeated viewing of Stan Shuffetts DVD-#2, and Stan's YouTube videos I believe I have a good handle on how do it. I just need to improve my accuracy in determining the perceptions.

Now - for your question. I know that I've used A-outside for slight cuts. The best thing I can say is use this routine: Lets say you estimate the shot at 5 degrees. Find ETA (or C if it is a right cut) then tweek it with CTE until you see both. This gives you a "fixed cue ball" ... as if you are frozen in place looking at a white round disc with the left edge and right edge of the cue ball determining the all important center cue ball. Ignoring the object ball, staring at center cue ball, ask yourself ... if I go to full stance without a pivot / sweep wouId I hit it thick or thin? Try it and use the results as your lesson. After a while this becomes more automatic.

Understanding how to do CTE isn't as hard as it sounds but pinpointing the objective targets and moving into the pivot/sweep takes practice. I used it last night - beat my buddy 12-3 (I had scratched on the eight-ball on two of those). The shots I missed I knew I had either viewed the perceptions incorrectly or used the wrong visual sweep.
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Jucas said:
This is one of the most confusing aspects of CTE for me; choosing which direction of the pivot. Let me ask you:

Let's say I get my perception, and fixed cueball, i.e. CTE - ETA.

Then imagine I was going drop down and hit the ball without a sweep or pivot?

I ask myself "will this hit be thick or thin"?

If the hit will be thin, do outside pivot, if the hit will be thick do a inside pivot?
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Isn't it left to right always ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Isn't it left to right always ?
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That was confusing at first for me:

Left or right pivot/sweep: pre-pivot spot that the eyes are focusing on is on the left or right side of the fixed cue ball. ..... another way to look at it: You are moving the back-hand of the cue left or right when you are pivoting.

This is not to be confused with the cue movement. I'm left handed and always move my cue right to left into the cue ball. I move it into the position that results in a left or right offset to center cue ball.

Depending on the angle of the shot: the left or right pivot/sweep can thicken or thin the shot.

Edit: I'm really reluctant to offer too much advice as I'm "agressively" learning it too. I'd hate to give wrong advice for that reason.
 
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Mirza said:
This isn't true, please don't comment on something that you're ignorant about.
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Oh. OK. Maybe it is difficult for you to understand Kentucky American English being over there in Bosnia. Stan spends the bulk of this video explaining how he pockets the balls from straight in to a 49 degree cut. He uses the A perception for about 80% of the shots at which point he goes to the 30 degree or B perception. The transition point is right around the half ball hit at which point Stan uses the A perception, again, but this time with an inside sweep. So from straight in until just before the half ball hit Stan is using the A perception ("15 degree perception) with an outside sweep. That's exactly what Stan demonstrated and is exactly what I said.

If I'm wrong I apologize but you'll need to point it out to me.

https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4?t=5m49s
 
Dan White said:
Oh. OK. Maybe it is difficult for you to understand Kentucky American English being over there in Bosnia. Stan spends the bulk of this video explaining how he pockets the balls from straight in to a 49 degree cut. He uses the A perception for about 80% of the shots at which point he goes to the 30 degree or B perception. The transition point is right around the half ball hit at which point Stan uses the A perception, again, but this time with an inside sweep. So from straight in until just before the half ball hit Stan is using the A perception ("15 degree perception) with an outside sweep. That's exactly what Stan demonstrated and is exactly what I said.

If I'm wrong I apologize but you'll need to point it out to me.

https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4?t=5m49s
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So you really felt the need to insult me?
Over there in Bosnia? What is that supposed to mean?

Ok, I'll point it out to you even though you insulted me and this was pointed out to you several times before, it is PLAIN WRONG to connect CTE perceptions and pivots/sweeps to angles because the same angle with different CB/OB placements on the table might be another CTE perception or another pivot/sweep because the CB/OB placement on the table puts you in different physical position in correlation to CB/OB overlap while you're aligning to the same perception and that is the reason why it is NOT CONNECTED to angles and that is why you just CAN NOT say you use 15° perception and outside sweep up to half a ball hit like its a universal rule.

My over here Bosnian english good enough for you your highness?
 
Mirza said:
This isn't true, please don't comment on something that you're ignorant about.
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Why isn't that guy (D.W.) banned??!! ... At least Spidey contributed meaningful information instead of trying to derail every CTE thread.


:mad:
 
Mirza said:
So you really felt the need to insult me?
Over there in Bosnia? What is that supposed to mean?

Ok, I'll point it out to you even though you insulted me and this was pointed out to you several times before, it is PLAIN WRONG to connect CTE perceptions and pivots/sweeps to angles because the same angle with different CB/OB placements on the table might be another CTE perception or another pivot/sweep because the CB/OB placement on the table puts you in different physical position in correlation to CB/OB overlap while you're aligning to the same perception and that is the reason why it is NOT CONNECTED to angles and that is why you just CAN NOT say you use 15° perception and outside sweep up to half a ball hit like its a universal rule.

My over here Bosnian english good enough for you your highness?
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OK Mirza. Let's recap and hopefully move on. You started this by calling me ignorant. I looked at the video again to see if I missed something (which I mentioned in my last post that I might be wrong) and concluded that I did not. I returned your insult with a jab that maybe you are Bosnian and don't speak english as a first language and therefore didn't understand Stan's video.

Back to the issue: You can say all you want about balls on the table in different positions and I'm not going to get into all that. This isn't the thread for such a discussion. I will only say that Stan repeatedly talks about being able to pocket shots from zero to 49 degrees with mostly the A perception with an outside sweep. For instance at 12:46 in that same video he says, "I would love for somebody to pick out one angle in between zero and 49 that doesn't work the way I described it." The way he described it was that the A perception with outside sweep works nearly up to the what Stan called a "30 degree shot."

So maybe we can agree based on the above that a viewer could easily come away with the conclusion I made. If that conclusion is false, then maybe the video is incomplete or misleading. BTW, this conversation we are having is not about whether Stan's system is good or bad, it is only about whether it is proper to say that the A perception is "good to go" up to about a half ball hit (30 degree shot as Stan says). I think it is a reasonable conclusion.

It's not that important so I'm happy to drop it.
 
sacman said:
Why isn't that guy (D.W.) banned??!! ... At least Spidey contributed meaningful information instead of trying to derail every CTE thread.


:mad:
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I think you have a premature opinion of me, but it is what it is. We're really not supposed to discuss banned people but if you want an answer to your question feel free to pm me. You may find that I have more insight than you realize.

I should apologize to you because I was a little derogatory towards your reply to Jucas. I know you are excited to learn something new and are only trying to help.

Also please take note that Jucas asked about as simple a question as there is. 24 hours went by without a reply from an experienced user so I asked cookie to chime in. (He almost never helps newbies in the forum for some reason). I already addressed this in post #15 actually.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=6178981&postcount=15

Eventually, Vorpal posted a video from Stan that should clear it up for Jucas. My gut feel is that Jucas is still confused. Maybe Mirza would follow up for him if that is the case.

I'm trying my best to minimize comments about CTE but it ain't easy. In the aiming forum it seems like all roads lead back to CTE.
 
Dan White said:
I think you have a premature opinion of me, but it is what it is. We're really not supposed to discuss banned people but if you want an answer to your question feel free to pm me. You may find that I have more insight than you realize.

I should apologize to you because I was a little derogatory towards your reply to Jucas. I know you are excited to learn something new and are only trying to help.

Also please take note that Jucas asked about as simple a question as there is. 24 hours went by without a reply from an experienced user so I asked cookie to chime in. (He almost never helps newbies in the forum for some reason). I already addressed this in post #15 actually.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=6178981&postcount=15

Eventually, Vorpal posted a video from Stan that should clear it up for Jucas. My gut feel is that Jucas is still confused. Maybe Mirza would follow up for him if that is the case.

I'm trying my best to minimize comments about CTE but it ain't easy. In the aiming forum it seems like all roads lead back to CTE.
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It's not up to you as to when i should post anything.
It's you who always reverts back to posting about CTE even though you have said repeatedly you would stay out of CTE threads.
 
Dan White said:
So it appears the answer is that a straight in uses the A-inside perception and any cut shot approaching a half ball hit also uses A-inside perception. Well I thought that was the answer but I have trouble with it. I was hoping Jucas would be able to make it work and relate how he did so.

Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

At 5:00 he is shooting a straight in shot or 0 angle with a 15 degree perception and a right visual sweep.


The next shot appears to be about a 15 degree cut to the left pocket with a 15 degree perception and a right visual sweep.


Two different shots/angle 0 and 15 degrees with the same 15 degree perception and a right visual sweep - powerful way to aim. I had stop there to digest it's power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_TW3-i0KL4&feature=youtu.be&t=295
 
Dan White said:
OK Mirza. Let's recap and hopefully move on. You started this by calling me ignorant. I looked at the video again to see if I missed something (which I mentioned in my last post that I might be wrong) and concluded that I did not. I returned your insult with a jab that maybe you are Bosnian and don't speak english as a first language and therefore didn't understand Stan's video.

Back to the issue: You can say all you want about balls on the table in different positions and I'm not going to get into all that. This isn't the thread for such a discussion. I will only say that Stan repeatedly talks about being able to pocket shots from zero to 49 degrees with mostly the A perception with an outside sweep. For instance at 12:46 in that same video he says, "I would love for somebody to pick out one angle in between zero and 49 that doesn't work the way I described it." The way he described it was that the A perception with outside sweep works nearly up to the what Stan called a "30 degree shot."

So maybe we can agree based on the above that a viewer could easily come away with the conclusion I made. If that conclusion is false, then maybe the video is incomplete or misleading. BTW, this conversation we are having is not about whether Stan's system is good or bad, it is only about whether it is proper to say that the A perception is "good to go" up to about a half ball hit (30 degree shot as Stan says). I think it is a reasonable conclusion.

It's not that important so I'm happy to drop it.
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Yes it is important if you talk about something you're ignorant about and even Stan himself told you that, and also admins repeatedly told you not to talk about CTE.

Here, this shot is under half a ball hit and certainly under 49° but yet it is a 15° perception and an INSIDE sweep/pivot, OUTSIDE IS A BANK, why oh why is that?
This is a rhetorical question, i do not want nor need your answer and nobody else who wants to learn CTE certainly doesn't need your answers about any question regarding CTE nor your interpretation of what Stan is saying because it is almost always false, until book is out they can ask Stan on FB or any other KNOWLEDGEABLE USER OF CTE her on AZ, preferably by PM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMNonU2tmtg
 
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