90+ degree cut shot

DynoDan

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Something most experienced players have accomplished at one time or another. But (much like calling a ball out of a full rack in straight pool), also something seldom attempted in competition. My question is: what conditions/circumstances could render the probability high enough to attempt? Jumping the CB enough (with your playing cue) to cut an object ball backwards usually means a VERY hard stroke, thus turning it loose & sending it around the table to likely scratch (or jump the rail). Are freshly ‘polished’ balls generally easier or harder to loft? Is the possible resulting forward spin of a jumped CB perhaps more likely to direct the OB backwards when it lands on balls that are dirty/sticky? Does traditional/slower cloth speed generally rule this shot out?
Playing on carom cloth in local club tournaments where non-pro house rules apply (and intentional safety play is frowned upon) has inspired the attempt of many ‘off-the-wall’ shots I had long ago written off (but when they DO drop, boy does your ego get a boost!).
Opinions?
 
Dirty equipment, a level stroke and more side spin than most pool players ever use is what I like. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

Note that the second stroke shown (the first was a miscue) cut the object ball towards the end rail from the spot.

Dr. Dave has some videos and articles about shots (especially banks) that are effectively over 90 degrees. You should also track down Joe Tucker's "impossible" bank shot video on YouTube.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Dirty equipment, a level stroke and more side spin than most pool players ever use is what I like. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

Note that the second stroke shown (the first was a miscue) cut the object ball towards the end rail from the spot.

Dr. Dave has some videos and articles about shots (especially banks) that are effectively over 90 degrees. You should also track down Joe Tucker's "impossible" bank shot video on YouTube.
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Nice. At LEAST 90 degrees. Makeable with dirty balls/fast cloth (especially if a chalk mark hits just right). Upon reflection, the shot I had in mind would likely require polished balls. Probably with an OB also very close to the side pocket (to preclude jumping the table). A lofted CB landing on the distal/inside quarter of the OB should theoretically propel it backwards in excess of 90 degrees for a few inches (on fast cloth).
 
DynoDan said:
Nice. At LEAST 90 degrees. Makeable with dirty balls/fast cloth (especially if a chalk mark hits just right). Upon reflection, the shot I had in mind would likely require polished balls. Probably with an OB also very close to the side pocket (to preclude jumping the table). A lofted CB landing on the distal/inside quarter of the OB should theoretically propel it backwards in excess of 90 degrees for a few inches (on fast cloth).
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Some jumpers can take the cue ball nearly straight up. That offers the possibility of cutting the object ball 180 degrees. I think that's a lot less practical than a 90-degree shot.

In the video, the shot I made was slightly over 93 degrees since I put it in the hard side of the pocket. The second stroke cut the object ball about 110 degrees. It was headed towards the 0.75 diamond from the corner but only went about a foot. Certainly a skid.

Notice that I didn't hit the ball very hard -- not hard enough to hit six cushions around the table.

As I mentioned before, the shot is an hour shot as a proposition but I made it on the second try once. A friend said he had ruined his arm trying the shot and wanted to see how I hit it. So I did.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Some jumpers can take the cue ball nearly straight up.QUOTE]
With their playing cue? (not all of us believe in the legitimacy of jump cues).

I won’t bother to setup a video camera and wear MY arm out proving a point. Just saying, with polished balls/fast cloth under specific circumstances, when you absolutely HAVE to cut a ball that’s very close to a side pocket more than 90 degrees (assuming the correct management of: distance/strike/ballistic curve/CB restraint factors, etc. are all feasible), lofting the CB enough to land past the OB’s center apex IS likely a viable option. How else can you explain dropping a lofted cut shot under conditions where it never would have ordinarily gone without using side english/throw? I would like to see experiments demonstrating the circumstances required to produce the absolute maximum cut angles possibly obtainable (without jump cues).
I suspect those of us who have always traditionally favored a hard tip would find that many ‘lofting’ techniques have subconsciously crept into our playing repitoir. We don’t know/can’t explain why we do it, but instinct directs us. Haven’t you ever been faced with a 14.1 break shot that presents an impossibly small angle, only to pocket it and then bounce-loft the CB right down into the center of the pack? Was it really a conscious/considered decision you made, or did instinct just take over?
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Bob Jewett said:
Dirty equipment, a level stroke and more side spin than most pool players ever use is what I like. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

Note that the second stroke shown (the first was a miscue) cut the object ball towards the end rail from the spot.

Dr. Dave has some videos and articles about shots (especially banks) that are effectively over 90 degrees. You should also track down Joe Tucker's "impossible" bank shot video on YouTube.
Click to expand...
"Take 5", what a great tune. Cool video.
 
VonRhett said:
... Looks like Shoreline. ...
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Which sadly closed several years ago. They were down to only league players at night while 10 years before there would be a waiting list at 10PM. Too bad -- it was a nice room with good selections on the jukebox.
 
Sliced that sucker like salami!!!
I can't wait to go nuts for a bit trying this out.
I thought that cross side bank on the far side of the pocket was tough enough. This cut takes the cake.
 
bbb said:
noone has a comment on these ??
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Exactly my preference for cutting balls backwards; inside english. As has been discussed more than a few times here, inside affords much easier whitey control. Spinning it in turns the CB loose. Unless you're Efren. And I'm pretty darned sure unless you ARE Efren, then... you're not Efren. Inside, please and thank you.
 
bbb said:
noone has a comment on these ??
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Great shots but i do have one question: how far from the rail were those balls? Hard to tell from that camera angle. Distance from the rail can really add/subtract to the difficulty. For those who don't him Bill is and has been one of the U.S.'s top 3c players for years and plays banks and 1p pretty sporty as well.
 
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