Competing with the APA

[lorider]

That was me. It is at a premier pool hall in a large metro area. They got 8 diamond bar tables and started the BCA league because the better players wanted to be able to get qualified for the BCA regional and national events. So it's those players and players who like to compete with those players.

So yeah, "Chock full of killers" is a pretty good description.

But that being said I don't mean they run out every time. Just that they can and do sometimes. Obviously the worst players don't run out as much as the best players but they are still capable of it.

And if you dog a runout...good chance you're never getting a shot at your ball again.

Not trying to belittle the ability of a bcapl player to break and run but even I as an apa 5 have way more break and runs in usapl than I do in apa because of the open break rule. Table runs after your opponent scratches on the break are also easier in bcapl due to bih anywhere on the table bs having to shoot from the kitchen as in apa.

Does the fact that i can do that make me better than the average apa player ?

Then again....maybe that's why I like usapl so much. Feel like a stronger player with those break and runs and table runs vs not getting as many in apa . :grin-square:

 

[sixpack]

Not trying to belittle the ability of a bcapl player to break and run but even I as an apa 5 have way more break and runs in usapl than I do in apa because of the open break rule. Table runs after your opponent scratches on the break are also easier in bcapl due to bih anywhere on the table bs having to shoot from the kitchen as in apa.

Does the fact that i can do that make me better than the average apa player ?

Then again....maybe that's why I like usapl so much. Feel like a stronger player with those break and runs and table runs vs not getting as many in apa . :grin-square:

I agree with you completely on this. Much easier to BNR with choice.

Also much easier to run after someone scratches with BIH anywhere instead of kitchen.

 

[lorider]

APA is the monster because it promotes rewarding horrible players with huge spots.Where else can you be a 3 level player for 20 years and still have a coin flip chance in most every match except with the local monster 7?

Bca around here is where all the 7s go when they can’t take it anymore.The rest of the people in it are usually the players looking to play good players regularly so they can improve. ...Also in Bca I always know it is 9:30 when people start leaving.Even a super slow night with many delays running late will be 10:15.Just for that it is a great league.

The first league i ever played in was bcapl. That was about 12/13 years ago and I played for 1 year before quitting pool entirely for about 4/5 years. It was a little bit of a shock coming going from years of playing bar rules to bcapl rules. I thought playing 8 ball for points was idiotic lol..took a while to get used to safes and bih also. And the round robin format was pretty foreign to me also.

But hey.... I was playing pool In a competitive environment environment and holding my own against the majority of players....worked my way up to a 7 before I quit.

Fast forward 5 years and I go back to the same pool hall to pls league again. Surprise....its nothing but apa now.i asked around to some people I remembered from bcapl days and most would not talk about it but I did manage to find out the league folded after the lo absconded with the money and no teams went to Vegas as promised. The league folded.

A few years after playing apa I thought about trying to start up a bcapl league and most friends I had made in apa wanted nothing to do with it .

Glad I did not waste my time trying to start one because since the. Napa....tap and usapl have not had any success starting up in my area.

Napa had the most success....lasting a year with 2 small divisions made up of mostly people that played apa also every week lime myself.

Tap only lasted one session. Hated to see it fold as my team won 1,500.00 in playoffs at the end of the session.

Usapl lasted 3 sessions but folded due to the lo's health issues and I hope he gets better and starts it back up. He could only muster up 6 teams and it was full of players who played apa every week also such as myself.


Quite a few people were willing to play in a different league bit no one was willing to drop apa completely for another league. Like me....they just wanted to play pool and I was interesting to play by different rules and formats.....but again.....no o.e was dropping apa entirely for another league.

You did have some guys who did not play apa that were willing to play in these other...so called serious player leagues ....but there were never enough of those to make the league work without the addition of apa players like me who were willing to play in more than one league every week.

 

[hang-the-9]

APA is the monster because it promotes rewarding horrible players with huge spots.Where else can you be a 3 level player for 20 years and still have a coin flip chance in most every match except with the local monster 7?

Bca around here is where all the 7s go when they can’t take it anymore.The rest of the people in it are usually the players looking to play good players regularly so they can improve. ...Also in Bca I always know it is 9:30 when people start leaving.Even a super slow night with many delays running late will be 10:15.Just for that it is a great league.

Seems about what I see, APA is filled with players that never get better, or at least pretend they don't get better. If your area is mostly those players or casual players then getting a new league started will be tough. I would love to see Fargo used in all leagues, then you can't have some guy playing a B in most events, but in APA they are for some reason a C level rank because APA keeps it's own internal handicap system. If tournaments and different leagues used the same handicap system then there is no way for dishonest players to hide their skill. You can't play in an A tournament and cash then slide back to your league where you are a B and go to another league where you are a C since every match is in the system no matter where you play.

 

[CGM]

My biggest gripe with APA is how late it runs and the way they keep score in 9 ball. I think getting rewarded for making a ball in 9 ball defeats the purpose of the game. If most BCA matches are really over by 9:30, I'm going to start looking for one to play in immediately. Getting home at 1am sucks especially if you play early and just sit around for 3 to 4 hours watching low level players push balls around the table. It also seems that BCA attracts higher level players overall and I am an APA player that has and wants to continue to get better.

 

[lorider]

My biggest gripe with APA is how late it runs and the way they keep score in 9 ball. I think getting rewarded for making a ball in 9 ball defeats the purpose of the game. If most BCA matches are really over by 9:30, I'm going to start looking for one to play in immediately. Getting home at 1am sucks especially if you play early and just sit around for 3 to 4 hours watching low level players push balls around the table. It also seems that BCA attracts higher level players overall and I am an APA player that has and wants to continue to get better.

Got news for you my friend......in most areas bcapl 8 ball is also a points based game. Not saying any one is lying but we never got through by 9:30 when I played bcapl. I could see it with 3 man teams but not 5 players ...unless every one is running out from every where.
Normal starting time has always been 7:30 around here in every league. Getting through in 2 hours just does not seem feasible.....not saying its impossible.

Just recalled......we always had a chance problem finding our players when it was their turn again. Our lo also ran a poker game at the same time he ran league and recruited players to play both at the same time. It was a friggin nightmare. Probly one reason I quit. And you always had a couple going around socializing with other teams and always had to hunt them up when it was their turn again. Never had that problem with any other league I have played in.

 

[chefjeff]

Got news for you my friend......in most areas bcapl 8 ball is also a points based game. Not saying any one is lying but we never got through by 9:30 when I played bcapl. I could see it with 3 man teams but not 5 players ...unless every one is running out from every where.
Normal starting time has always been 7:30 around here in every league. Getting through in 2 hours just does not seem feasible.....not saying its impossible.

Just recalled......we always had a chance problem finding our players when it was their turn again. Our lo also ran a poker game at the same time he ran league and recruited players to play both at the same time. It was a friggin nightmare. Probly one reason I quit. And you always had a couple going around socializing with other teams and always had to hunt them up when it was their turn again. Never had that problem with any other league I have played in.

The shortest match I've been in started at 7 and ended at 8:15. It was a runout fest. 16 games.

After playing around 1500 nights of mostly Valley/BCA leagues, I'd estimate the average ending time at 10:00 - 10:30. If a guy has to get up early, he can be placed so his is the first game of the final round so he can go home after that which is usually before 10 pm.

Cripes, when younger, we'd LEAVE for pool playing at 9ish or so. :embarrassed2:


Jeff Livingston

 

[lorider]

The shortest match I've been in started at 7 and ended at 8:15. It was a runout fest. 16 games.

After playing around 1500 nights of mostly Valley/BCA leagues, I'd estimate the average ending time at 10:00 - 10:30. If a guy has to get up early, he can be placed so his is the first game of the final round so he can go home after that which is usually before 10 pm.

Cripes, when younger, we'd LEAVE for pool playing at 9ish or so. :embarrassed2:


Jeff Livingston

Yea 10:30 is a more accurate ending time. Iirc correctly that was our usual ending time also. For sure apa does average a lil longer....we usually get.through between 11:00-11:30 . Have been a few times we got through around 10:30 but very rare.

I recall when i was younger there were times I stayed out till 6:00 am ...got home and changed and went straight to work. No way in heck I would attempt that now.

 

[Island Drive]

What is mandatory here in farm country along the Ark. river. Bar must have 2 tables and both tables must be played on. These farm boys, have to get up early.

In the past, I always thought APA's design was to keep them there till late evening. It may have changed, but I still think someone is there till the end keeping score, and that can be Late.

 

[lorider]

The shortest match I've been in started at 7 and ended at 8:15. It was a runout fest. 16 games.

After playing around 1500 nights of mostly Valley/BCA leagues, I'd estimate the average ending time at 10:00 - 10:30. If a guy has to get up early, he can be placed so his is the first game of the final round so he can go home after that which is usually before 10 pm.

Cripes, when younger, we'd LEAVE for pool playing at 9ish or so. :embarrassed2:


Jeff Livingston

We got through at 11:40 last night and it was entirely my fault. I started the last 8 ball match at around 10:30 ......9 ball was spread over with.

We are in first place and playing the second place team and i went I to defense mode to get a shutout. I played 20 safes if I recall and my opponent played 14. I won 4-0 to give our team am 11-2 win last night. I usually save this type of matches for playoffs or higher cause I want to go home early lime every one else. Most times during regular session I play strictly offense every match and consequently my win / loss suffers sometimes.

 

[CGM]

Even if it was 10:30 it would beat what my team averages in APA. I usually don't get home until after midnight when i play during the week. I'm not trying to bag on APA, I enjoy my time there but I would like to give BCA a chance.

 

[SBC]

What percent does the APA pay back?
May be 30?
If you tried that in a house league you would be lynched.
Win a trip to Vegas get a few hundred and entry to tourney. Still need to,pony up a grand yourself.
How much kickback do they get for bringing in a bunch of fish to the casino? Would be shocked by the amount.

Who thing is a joke

Start your own leagues. Payout strong and forget this corporate crap.

 

[CGM]

What percent does the APA pay back?
May be 30?
If you tried that in a house league you would be lynched.
Win a trip to Vegas get a few hundred and entry to tourney. Still need to,pony up a grand yourself.
How much kickback do they get for bringing in a bunch of fish to the casino? Would be shocked by the amount.

Who thing is a joke

Start your own leagues. Payout strong and forget this corporate crap.

I know for a fact that what my APA league pays out for a "free trip" to Vegas isn't anywhere close to what it would actually cost to go. I personally don't play because of the prospect of a trip to Vegas. If I want to go to Sin City I'll just go.

 

[lorider]

What percent does the APA pay back?
May be 30?
If you tried that in a house league you would be lynched.
Win a trip to Vegas get a few hundred and entry to tourney. Still need to,pony up a grand yourself.
How much kickback do they get for bringing in a bunch of fish to the casino? Would be shocked by the amount.

Who thing is a joke

Start your own leagues. Payout strong and forget this corporate crap.

Where do you get your info ? when I went 5 years ago we got 6 round trip tickets. 3 rooms for 4 nights and a total of 850.00 from the league operator and show up money from apa....last place money if you will. The only money I spent was for food and drinks and it sure did not total a 1,000.00. As you stated.

1st place 8 ball singles paid 15,000.00 1 st place 9 ball singles paid 10,000.00 . A lot of pro tournaments don't pay that much . Have not got time to look up team payouts . Let you know about that later.

 

[lorider]

What percent does the APA pay back?
May be 30?
If you tried that in a house league you would be lynched.
Win a trip to Vegas get a few hundred and entry to tourney. Still need to,pony up a grand yourself.
How much kickback do they get for bringing in a bunch of fish to the casino? Would be shocked by the amount.

Who thing is a joke

Start your own leagues. Payout strong and forget this corporate crap.

And just to clarify... That 15,000.00 first place prize money was for each skill level bracket. 2-7. ...6 brackets total paid out 15,000.00 each.

 

[mikepage]

Got news for you my friend......in most areas bcapl 8 ball is also a points based game. Not saying any one is lying but we never got through by 9:30 when I played bcapl. I could see it with 3 man teams but not 5 players ...unless every one is running out from every where.
Normal starting time has always been 7:30 around here in every league. Getting through in 2 hours just does not seem feasible.....not saying its impossible. [...]

We have 4-player teams with a limit of 2200 (average of 550/player).
We play a double round-robin, like on the scoresheet below, on two tables. So each player plays 8 games of 8-Ball. We start around 7:15 and end around 9:45 pm.

The 2000 division (500/player ave) also plays 8 games
The 1800 Division (maximum player average of 450) plays 6 games each
The 1600 Division plays 6 games

All get done at a reasonable time.

 

[sixpack]

Last night we played our league and finished up at about 9:15. 4 man teams played on two tables.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Even if it was 10:30 it would beat what my team averages in APA. I usually don't get home until after midnight when i play during the week. I'm not trying to bag on APA, I enjoy my time there but I would like to give BCA a chance.

You probably already saw it but just in case I sent you a PM with some info that may be of some help.

 

[justadub]

Ahhhh, been away from the forum for a bit and here we are, flogging this deceased equine again :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

To the OP, keep on keeping on. Even if your league is currently small, if you do a good job and keep your people engaged, it will grow. This area has long been APA only, with a couple of folks trying one thing or another over the years. Recently a friend (and used to be one of my players, sigh) started TAP here locally, on the nights that doesn't have APA. It started small for a while too. Now its getting nearly as big as APA here, which has lost some to the other league, but not a huge dip. It seems there's enough players to keep it all going, four nights a week. (Which the room owner loves, of course.) And that's cool, to me. Even tho I'm an APA guy, I love seeing the room busy, and lots of our players playing in big events for both leagues.

As to the usual arguments, APA isn't designed as a cash-back league, and folks know it, so its not a big deal. If you join APA expecting that, shame on whoever misled you into thinking that was the case. I made the Vegas trip last year, it was a great experience, but I've played several years before finally getting to go and have enjoyed my league experience greatly. To each his own, I guess.

We're usually done our league nights by 10:30, tho some go till 11 or so. Depends on how motivated both teams are to get it moving

 

[lorider]

Ahhhh, been away from the forum for a bit and here we are, flogging this deceased equine again :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

To the OP, keep on keeping on. Even if your league is currently small, if you do a good job and keep your people engaged, it will grow. This area has long been APA only, with a couple of folks trying one thing or another over the years. Recently a friend (and used to be one of my players, sigh) started TAP here locally, on the nights that doesn't have APA. It started small for a while too. Now its getting nearly as big as APA here, which has lost some to the other league, but not a huge dip. It seems there's enough players to keep it all going, four nights a week. (Which the room owner loves, of course.) And that's cool, to me. Even tho I'm an APA guy, I love seeing the room busy, and lots of our players playing in big events for both leagues.

As to the usual arguments, APA isn't designed as a cash-back league, and folks know it, so its not a big deal. If you join APA expecting that, shame on whoever misled you into thinking that was the case. I made the Vegas trip last year, it was a great experience, but I've played several years before finally getting to go and have enjoyed my league experience greatly. To each his own, I guess.

We're usually done our league nights by 10:30, tho some go till 11 or so. Depends on how motivated both teams are to get it moving

Ahh....the voice od reason popped in this thread. Good post as usual dub.