Low over the cue or taller stance (older guys)
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
1. A TALLER stance allows the human to see ANGLES a little better.
2. A LOWER stance allows for better depth preception.
randyg
I'd say a lower stance puts your eyes closer to the shot line, making aiming more precise - like sighting through a rifle's sites rather than from above them. Probably worth the trouble.
pj
chgo
I'd like to see Ray Martin shoot. I wonder if his back can get down low time after time.
How about it Ray? Show us a picture of you stroking a ball naturally for your age. I'm thinking as everyone ages the stance gets more upright but could be wrong.
Ray vs. Sigel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3TQ5Lbjems
True for me (71 years old and lazy). I only get low on more difficult shots - that's how I know it works.
pj
chgo
Thanks for that. I'm watching it. Even Sigel is up over the current pros. For me, I've had two neck surgeries and can not see the balls when I'm lower to the cue stick. Neck will not turn that high up. Sucks!
stance
The books, including Ray's, and the video's tell the story. Old time players tended to stand higher. Also their "level cue" tended to be three to five inches higher at the buttcap than the tip rather than the all out effort to get the cue as flat as possible.
I have shot both very low and more erect. There was a twenty year break between the time I was getting low and obsessed with pool for ten years and the time I came back and had to stand more erect. I once got so low on some shots that I used my bearded jaw as an anchor point for the cue to slide on.
No question that old school players were highly skilled with the higher stance. No question I shot better with a low stance but the hours put in might have had more to do with it than the stance.
I think the lower stance might not be better but it is easier to use. When you can't get low the shoulder is much freer and the pendulum stroke is much more difficult to execute well. The pendulum stroke and low stance go together. If you use a pendulum stroke you should use the lowest stance you are comfortable with. If there is a lot of shoulder movement in your stroke standing a little higher might be an advantage.
Consistency is the most important thing. I believe that the low stance and pendulum stroke is easier to learn. Almost anything you can do consistently works well. I noticed one of the best in the world has a pretty pronounced chicken wing. Perhaps we should tell him his technique is poor!
Hu
The books, including Ray's, and the video's tell the story. Old time players tended to stand higher. Also their "level cue" tended to be three to five inches higher at the buttcap than the tip rather than the all out effort to get the cue as flat as possible.
I have shot both very low and more erect. There was a twenty year break between the time I was getting low and obsessed with pool for ten years and the time I came back and had to stand more erect. I once got so low on some shots that I used my bearded jaw as an anchor point for the cue to slide on.
No question that old school players were highly skilled with the higher stance. No question I shot better with a low stance but the hours put in might have had more to do with it than the stance.
I think the lower stance might not be better but it is easier to use. When you can't get low the shoulder is much freer and the pendulum stroke is much more difficult to execute well. The pendulum stroke and low stance go together. If you use a pendulum stroke you should use the lowest stance you are comfortable with. If there is a lot of shoulder movement in your stroke standing a little higher might be an advantage.
Consistency is the most important thing. I believe that the low stance and pendulum stroke is easier to learn. Almost anything you can do consistently works well. I noticed one of the best in the world has a pretty pronounced chicken wing. Perhaps we should tell him his technique is poor!
Hu
I did not know that part. I try to use a pendulum stroke. Practicing with my hand hitting my chest.... just elbow.
I imagine that explains why, with the acknowledgement that there are always exceptions, 3c players tend to stand taller than snooker players, with pool players in between.
I think Ray Martin has always played with his chin a few inches above the stick. In his book he shows a picture with his chin on the stick and the caption "Too low." Whether he is higher off the cue now than he was in his prime, I don't know.
Some years ago I asked Ray whether he would now (as of that time) want to change anything in the book. His answer was that he would no longer present what is a "proper" stance in the same way. He had come to the belief that it should be more open to personal variation.
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I've heard of this instructor in the PNW who can help... Can't think of his name. Maybe someone here can think of it.
old thread
I haven't read my thread in years or Joey's that turned up when I did a search but you might find these old threads of interest. If the link doesn't work do a search on "pendulum stroke must die" and shootingarts as the user.
Hu
https://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=22621600
I haven't read my thread in years or Joey's that turned up when I did a search but you might find these old threads of interest. If the link doesn't work do a search on "pendulum stroke must die" and shootingarts as the user.
Hu
https://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=22621600
I've seen good players with both stances and some who used both depending on the shot. It's kind of hard for a tall guy to get way down on the cue and that's one reason why you see so many good players who are short. The other reason being that being shorter (under 5'8) has you down closer to table height (30") and in better position to shoot comfortably.
As I remember Mosconi, Ray Martin, Fats all played with their heads several inches above the shaft
Does Efren play with his head somewhere in the middle ,looks about 4 inches above
Do Filipino players as a rule play with the chin on the shaft or higher?
What about Mizerak,Varner, Jersey Red,Wimpy,Cornbread,Eddie Taylor?
Did they play low or more erect?
I have been playing low,but thinking about standing higher
Does Efren play with his head somewhere in the middle ,looks about 4 inches above
Do Filipino players as a rule play with the chin on the shaft or higher?
What about Mizerak,Varner, Jersey Red,Wimpy,Cornbread,Eddie Taylor?
Did they play low or more erect?
I have been playing low,but thinking about standing higher
I have to stand higher as my neck (surgeries) will not let me see the balls down where the cue stick is above my chin. No choice.
Likewise with C4 herniated disc... pisses me off.
Wishing all a Happy, Healthy and Safe New Year !
-Kat,
Wishing all a Happy, Healthy and Safe New Year !
-Kat,