New Derby rules

[Wybrook]

Anybody that has played One Pocket has heard of these rules even if they havent played played this way. If toy cant win under these rules, your in a game that you cant win anyway.

One Pocket is the ultimate game of adjustment, no other game like it and this is just another adjustment.

I guess you don't know me.

I would be interested in playing you some, with any rules..

Maybe you are stirring the pot or maybe you just don't play one pocket yourself. I'm assuming both...

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue also. The rule does not say the last 4 balls on the table.

What happens when you are up in the score and you start pushing it up table..and every time there are more than 4 balls in the kitchen your opponent gets to spot them.. Haha..

 

[Paul Schofield]

Texas express was implemented many years ago to speed up the game, but the sad truth is that the game became slower.
Unintended consequences!

Tom

Wise and very true. Texas express has evolved........to a s-l-o-w-e-r game.

Furthermore, penalties on foals are not equitable. Ball-in-hand for a bad hit is like a death sentence for shoplifting. There is way too much incentive to duck. Nine-ball is at it's best and most exciting when the rules promote aggressive play.

 

[King T]

That will never happen.

IF the 1pocket rule changes were posted today, after players have sent in their entry, that is total bullshit.

And here's what's going to happen: guys will will decide amongst themselves at the start of a match: old rules or new rules. And the majority, who have no clue about this new bullshit, will say "old rules." So there will be matches contested both ways. That's the only saving grace -- you'll probably get to play old rules anyway.

These rules are purely for the benefit of the promoter and not the players. The way it's been handled, it's bullshit.

?

There are to many eyes on the games that count for guys to try to play by their own rules, that will never happen. The best player will still win and these rules wont effect anything.

10/6, 15/5, your fouls dont count, you get the break, I get the break you get 9/7, you can only run 3, shoot and stop.., the way this game can be played is endless, this is just one more way to play, make the adjustment and get the cash.

 

[iusedtoberich]

They might have been forced to change the rules..... maybe they got 500 early entries in each division this year? And it was either change the game rules or make the banks and one hole race to two, and the 9 ball race to 5. I'm just guessing.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

Anybody that has played One Pocket has heard of these rules even if they havent played played this way. If toy cant win under these rules, your in a game that you cant win anyway.

One Pocket is the ultimate game of adjustment, no other game like it and this is just another adjustment.

That's very well said. We have debated this many times over at the one pocket forums. Bottom line is nobody has come up with a real solution to keep long matches from making a one pocket tournament run way long. Last year the one pocket ran a whole day behind. Something had to be done. There were several 5-1/2 hour matches last year that I know of. You cant make everybody happy but it's better than timers, shortened games or races. IMO like it or not this was the obvious solution.

 

[poolandpokerman]

I just watched a dvd of a one pocket match from 2015 between Shuff and Skylar. The first game took 40 min. I have not watch the rest of the dvd but these two guys are pretty fast players and great shooters. The Derby had to do something to speed of the games. When the uptable game gets going it is a very slow and boring game to watch. I usually fast forward until more balls get out of the kitchen. I think we should give the Derby a chance and see how it goes. I love the action and matches at the Derby and this is the best week of my pool life every year.

 

[jay helfert]

Posted today on Facebook:


2019 Derby City Classic Rule Changes

One-Pocket:

•If a ball is made on the break, re-rack.
•When more than four balls are in the kitchen at the end of a player’s inning, the ball or balls closest to the end rail are spotted until there are only four balls remaining in the kitchen.

9-Ball:

•The Outsville template will be used in place of the traditional triangle.
•The 9-Ball is to be positioned on the spot when racking.
•Once balls are placed inside the template, do not touch them.
•If the template is not perfectly straight, call for a re-rack.
•A minimum of 3 balls must cross the head-string, less pocketed balls.
•There will be an 18” break-box.

Baby Powder is prohibited during all events at The Derby City Classic.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another tournament going to the bullsh!t 9 ball rule of "•A minimum of 3 balls must cross the head-string, less pocketed balls."

Too bad they don't just move the Bigfoot to the back end of the event so we can watch all Banks, 1P, and then Bigfoot and just skip the 9 ball.

Finally Greg took my suggestion on how to speed up the play of the One Pocket division. I worked on him for years to do this (the Grady rule). The slow play of many One Pocket matches created a lot of difficulty in scheduling and affected the entire event.

 

[jay helfert]

There are to many eyes on the games that count for guys to try to play by their own rules, that will never happen. The best player will still win and these rules wont effect anything.

10/6, 15/5, your fouls dont count, you get the break, I get the break you get 9/7, you can only run 3, shoot and stop.., the way this game can be played is endless, this is just one more way to play, make the adjustment and get the cash.

You've got it right here! The players will quickly adjust to this rule and play accordingly. In my experience of using this rule, the best player will still win, and better yet there are no one hour plus games! A 40-45 minute game is about the longest you will see using this rule and that's a good thing. Most games will be over in 30 minutes or less.

Greg and Chad got it right here! They have a winning formula with the Derby City Classic, but it definitely needed some tweaking with the One Pocket division. It became unworkable during the last five or six years when they started getting fields of well over 300 players. This one rule change will make a huge difference in the scheduling of matches and the duration of play each day.

This is a much better solution than using a time clock (totally unworkable with all the matches going on at once), putting time limits on the match or anything else that had been suggested before. The rule works! And you will see that this year.

 

[kollegedave]

O.k., so let's say the new rule is great, and the games go quicker...by the way, I am not convinced that the new rule is great, but I will give it the 'ole college try, lfigueroa is right that this rule was announced after they collected a lot of entry fees.

Players should have been given more notice of this change. Making a significant rule change two weeks before the tournament is unprofessional.

kollegedave

 

[or1pkt]

Unfortunately...IMO The DCC is becoming one the "too many chiefs not enough Indians" situations where all kinds of people give Greg and the promoters their "input" which results in the constant yearly rule changes that are hard to keep up with when in reality a lot of things that are being "fixed" were not broken in the first place.

 

[Wybrook]

Everyone does read the rule correctly??


"When more than four balls are in the kitchen...?"


This is not to speed up the end of the game.

This can happen from the very start of the game, with 15 balls on the table.
This may very well lengthen every game as everyone is trying to figure out what balls to spot on every shot and when..

If they were trying to speed up the end game, this rule needs to read:

"When there are ONLY four balls left in the game" or something to that effect.

 

[lfigueroa]

Hey guys, they have to do something to shorten some of the 1p matches. With DCC's buy-back and re-draw every round some matches go so long it throws a major wrench into the works. A race-2-three shouldn't take 3hrs but it happens enough to warrant trying something. If it turns out to be a total cluster u-know-what i'm sure that they'll make adjustments. If they had a 128player limit in the 1p this probably wouldn't be an issue but with twice that it is. Just my $.02, nothing more. BTW, i'm good with all the 9b rules. The best players will make the final 16 as usual.

No, they do not have to do something to shorten the 1pocket matches.

What they have to do is limit the entries to all three events. Every year the entries grow and grow with hundreds of players entering each discipline. But guess what? They have not -- and basically cannot because of venue limitations -- increased the number of tables. 1pocket gets squeezed from both sides: more and more guys getting into the bank pool to fly the event pass fee and more guys getting into the 9ball (and the 1pocket). So the number of entries they allow is a basic problem. It's great that there is so much interest in the event, until they start messing with the rules.

And then there is the issue of the tournament staff not taking on the issue of slow play. Sometimes 1pocket matches do go long. And often, not always, that's because you have two guys that are not particularly good players bunting everything up table and/or one or both players studying every shot for 10 minutes and/or refusing to shoot at their hole. The tournament staff knows when every match starts, either because it is the beginning of a scheduled round of play or they've called a match to their assigned table. And instead of noting a match is taking too long and visiting the table and making a slow play call, they have decided to punish the entire field with bogus rules. At the US One Pocket Open up in Kalamazoo, if a match went too long you would get a visit from the tournament director who would check out the score, see what was happening, and then make a call along the lines of: the winner of the next game is the winner of the match. As a participant in that match you might not like the call but at least the whole event wasn't compromised.

In the copy of the "OFFICIAL RULES OF PLAY DERBY CITY CLASSIC Presented by Horseshoe Casino and Hotel" it says:

"Slow Play:* Slow play will not be tolerated.* Tournament officials will issue a warning if they feel you are delaying the progress of the match.* A second warning will result in ball in hand anywhere on the table.* A third warning is loss of game.* A fourth occurrence is loss of match."

And yet, in the 20 some odd DCCs I've attended, I have never seen a tournament official visit a table and make a slow play call. So instead of enforcing their own rules, we get goofy rules.

Lou Figueroa

 

[pt109]

Wise and very true. Texas express has evolved........to a s-l-o-w-e-r game.

Furthermore, penalties on foals are not equitable. (Ball-in-hand for a bad hit is like a death sentence for shoplifting. )There is way too much incentive to duck. Nine-ball is at it's best and most exciting when the rules promote aggressive play.

That'll be my quote of the day...:rotflmao1:

 

[lfigueroa]

There are to many eyes on the games that count for guys to try to play by their own rules, that will never happen. The best player will still win and these rules wont effect anything.

10/6, 15/5, your fouls dont count, you get the break, I get the break you get 9/7, you can only run 3, shoot and stop.., the way this game can be played is endless, this is just one more way to play, make the adjustment and get the cash.

Sure, towards the end, or perhaps even in the main tournament room.

But upstairs in all those separate rooms, guys are going to do what they want. Maybe they should just change the rules to say that after the break your opponent gets BIH. That'll speed things up too.

Lou Figueroa
get the cash
and all that

 

[Andrew Manning]

This is not to speed up the end of the game.

This can happen from the very start of the game, with 15 balls on the table.

Yes, it's intended to speed up the average game by eliminating "wedge games" where the balls go uptable before many have been pocketed. The rule isn't intended to remove the end game from one pocket.

This may very well lengthen every game as everyone is trying to figure out what balls to spot on every shot and when..

You realize this rule may be new to DCC, but is *not* actually a new rule, right? It doesn't lengthen the games, it can clearly be seen to shorten them on average in events where it's used.

It does change the game in the name of keeping it on schedule, though. Whether it's worth it is debatable.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

I just watched a dvd of a one pocket match from 2015 between Shuff and Skylar. The first game took 40 min. I have not watch the rest of the dvd but these two guys are pretty fast players and great shooters. The Derby had to do something to speed of the games. When the uptable game gets going it is a very slow and boring game to watch. I usually fast forward until more balls get out of the kitchen. I think we should give the Derby a chance and see how it goes. I love the action and matches at the Derby and this is the best week of my pool life every year.

That was a great match Tom.

 

[rhinobywilhite]

Basically, what they are doing, is radically changing the traditional 1pocket “end game” for the sake of expediency.

It’s an integral part of the game that, just as in chess, is at the core of the contest, replete with all kinds of subtleties, nuance, opportunities and traps.

Lou Figueroa

What he said. Why screw up a perfectly good game(as it is currently played)? The goal seems to be speed up the game not improve the game. If the promoter is unhappy with the time involved, limit the number of entries to a lower number. Oh wait, that cuts into profits.

 

[Wybrook]

The issue with the tournament overruns are the number of players.
The event gets more and more players every year, but its still confined to the original time constraints.

Why not either raise the entry fee or put a cap on the number of entries, or both?

Then stop creating goofy rules to compensate for lack of time.

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

In the copy of the "OFFICIAL RULES OF PLAY DERBY CITY CLASSIC Presented by Horseshoe Casino and Hotel" it says:

"Slow Play:* Slow play will not be tolerated.* Tournament officials will issue a warning if they feel you are delaying the progress of the match.* A second warning will result in ball in hand anywhere on the table.* A third warning is loss of game.* A fourth occurrence is loss of match."

And yet, in the 20 some odd DCCs I've attended, I have never seen a tournament official visit a table and make a slow play call. So instead of enforcing their own rules, we get goofy rules.

Lou Figueroa

Nobody working the floor probably knows it is the stated rule :rotflmao:

 

[briankenobi]

I agree with Lou in that the issue is more and more people playing in the event. I first played in this even back when it was in Louisville and the numbers back then aren't what it is now. Last year the one pocket final didn't happen until Friday, which it normally is on Thursday.

You could limit the field, but that doesn't make financial sense. Of course they want as many people to play as possible. And you can't really start the tournament on Saturday because that is only day 2 of bank pool. If you keep allowing an unlimited field then you may have to increase the total length of Derby City to 10 days instead of 9 so you can have the traditional 4 days for bank pool, and 9 ball but then have 5 days for one pocket without changing the rules.

Aside from changing the rules, limiting the field, and extending the days, what else is there?