Technically, ball-first isn't required for inside english shots like this. What is required is that the ball hit occurs before the CB compresses the cushion very much. If the CB contacts the cushion first just in front of the ball and hits the ball before the cushion compresses the cushion very much, the inside (running) spin will still "take" after ball contact. If you look at the slow-motion footage of the first shot in my video, you will see the cushion-first contact (barely), with the inside still having a large effect.Yes, you can see from the shallow rebound angle of the CB that the 8 ball part of the shot is rail first. Ball-rail-ball.
You're probably thinking of this, which has a similar setup:Are we sure it's not one of those trick shots where you wet the contact point of the the 8 and the other ball?
Bingo!Ahh..disregard what I just wrote. I thought about it a little longer. No trick shot..top right CB.
Here's my follow-up video covering all good safety options:Thank you Mike Page and Tin Man! You guys inspired me to post the following video that includes your shot along with some interesting variations:
NV J.17 - What Would You Do Here, With Both Balls Frozen to the Rail?
Excellent analysis and suggestions. I think I now need to film a "Final Chapter" follow-up video showing just all of the best things that can happen with the best safety play.Shot 1 is the best.
One important detail - in general when I play this safe I don't play the cue ball to the rail. With a 20-30 degree angle or so it's possible to shoot straight at the 8 softly, move the 11 over six inches, and still have the cue ball frozen to the 8. The 8 double kisses the cue ball a little but at that soft speed it will remain stuck on top of the 8 every time with zero cue ball movement. This is an absolute game winner.
Now, I realize that if both balls are frozen then you have to play the cue ball to the rail. Still, if you shoot your shot 1 odds are the 11 will end up 'not frozen'. And, if they try tying up the 8 ball again, it's almost certain that one of the two will be off the rail. From there, with ball in hand, it will be easy to shoot the shot I'm describing.
My guess is that I can win with shot 1 immediately much of the time, but even if they tie up the balls they won't be able to get both frozen again and my next 'shot 1' will be dead jail.
I like some of your other suggestions, but they are all a far cry from the first.
Did anybody notice my blunder in the video?Here's my follow-up video covering all good safety options:
NV J.18 - What Would You Do Here? - Safety Follow-Up
There were more than I originally thought.
Which option(s) do you guys think are the best in general and for you specifically?
Do you think I missed any important or useful safeties?
Enjoy,
Dave
Do you mean these:This is shot is on YourTube, if I remember right it was shot with low right. Check it out, I think it is titled What Would You Do....there is also a follow up with some options of possible safety shots
Are we sure it's not one of those trick shots where you wet the contact point of the the 8 and the other ball?
Ahh..disregard what I just wrote. I thought about it a little longer. No trick shot..top right CB.
I've tried the shot many times...8 ball doesn't budge. Have you tried/done it?Saw this on a Dr Dave Billiards / YouTube, and it was a shot the shooter credited the Tin Man...you hit the rail first with outside spin. A follow up tape on this set up, shows you possible safety shots....check it out, it is titled "What Would You Do Here" (after I posted this noticed that Dr Dave posted it above my post, sorry)
I have made the shot without anything frozen. The angles have to be right.How many here have unsuccessfully/ successfully shot this shot?
I've tried it on three different tables (Olhaussen, Gold Crown, Valley bar box) and I got the 8-ball to go on all three. Again, the margin for error is tiny. You must hit the 8 and cushion at very close to the same time, hitting the cushion just a hair in front of the 8 so the inside running spin can take while the CB is compressing the cushion.I've tried the shot many times...8 ball doesn't budge.
Hey guys! Glad some of you enjoyed this one. There’s almost zero practical application, but I love tinkering around on the table.
First of all, the shot requires the right equipment. The rails and balls have to be worn/gritty to some extent. I’ve played this shot on my home table which has slick cloth and it wouldn’t go from that distance. I’d have to have the two balls an inch from the corner. The problem is that you don’t get enough grab from the cue ball to really move the 8, it just slides and rubs the side of the ball slightly. So on most tables I have to set them up close to the pocket and strike the ball very accurately.
But on the equipment last night the cue ball really grabbed and was putting much more pace on the 8 ball than I can normally generate. Mike suggested I back it up from the corner and sure enough we got it close to the middle diamond. In fact on the attempt we recorded the 8 ball was moving fast enough and with enough accuracy we probably could’ve had it another diamond from the corner. We only did two takes, this was just something we found fun and wanted to share.
Maybe I should start with a ball hanging in the pocket, then the combo would make the hanger, the 8 would make the middle ball, and the cue ball could go four rails with inside to make the 8 ball? Hmmm. Something to try today...
PS- to aim just set up like you want to make it rail first with inside, then adjust just slightly so you’ll tickle the edge of the ball going in. Just enough to get the second ball moving.
Did anybody notice my blunder in the video?
Try to find it,
Dave
I've tried it on three different tables (Olhaussen, Gold Crown, Valley bar box) and I got the 8-ball to go on all three. Again, the margin for error is tiny. You must hit the 8 and cushion at very close to the same time, hitting the cushion just a hair in front of the 8 so the inside running spin can take while the CB is compressing the cushion.
There ain't no trickery going on, you just need to get lucky with the hit. Accurate aiming also helps.
Good luck,
Dave
Did anybody notice my blunder in the video?
Try to find it,
Dave
Bingo. I got confused shooting both as myself and as my "opponent." Quite embarrassing.Yeah, you changed what balls the players were hitting on one sequence.