Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

Johnny Rosato said:
Are you one of those that tries to tell your partner how to shoot every shot and shakes head in disgust when they miss? Yet when you miss a duck or leave shitty shape everything is ok?
Tell me that ain't you.
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True.

Never ever offer advice unless the other player asks for it.

I’ve played billiards for 51 years and the few times I have ever raised my voice is to a player offering unsolicited advice. I don’t mind discussing my options but ‘I’ will initiate it.

Hint: SHUT UP
 
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a few things

First and foremost, gotta agree that demanding the other guy pay your losses was a no class move regardless of how you lost.

I can't remember ever losing scotch doubles and when they were jack and jill young ladies often chased me down to be their partner, only on the pool table unfortunately! The reason was simple. Their one instruction before the game, "pocket the easiest ball to make." Because I knew my partner was weak or very weak I played much easier shape than I played for myself. Then I didn't have them try to play shape, shoot and I will make it work.

I am not Efren by a long shot but he and a shortstop were paired in a scotch doubles match. "Where do you want the cue ball?"

Efren:"It doesn't matter."

You cover your partner playing scotch doubles and let them do their best to cover you.

Hu
 
If it was me I would never accept money back
from my partner. Wtf, when you put your
$$ up and say me and x are going to
play you, your $$ is gone. Your partner
doesn't owe you squat if you lose unless
the guy unscrews prematurely or something.

Agree with SJM giving a partner, of any
skill level, unsolicited advice is disaster.
You would have to play together quite a
bit to make that work.

Accept that you chose each other,for good
or bad, and accept your fate. From the
sound of it you both know it wasn't on
purpose so why would he owe you?.
 
Growing up, I was always taught you win as a team and you lose as a team. Maybe you could have played lefty then righty as Thing 1 and Thing 2.

I do like to hear the thought process when partners talk, though. This last Mosconi Cup, there was a match with Billy Thorpe and I can’t remember who, but Thorpe kept trying to leav him thick cuts on the rail and his teammate kept telling him to give him more angle. Is that a reflection of the shooter’s preference or is it a reflection of his confidence in his partner? Would he play the shot the same way in a singles match?
 
ShootingArts said:
First and foremost, gotta agree that demanding the other guy pay your losses was a no class move regardless of how you lost.

I can't remember ever losing scotch doubles and when they were jack and jill young ladies often chased me down to be their partner, only on the pool table unfortunately! The reason was simple. Their one instruction before the game, "pocket the easiest ball to make." Because I knew my partner was weak or very weak I played much easier shape than I played for myself. Then I didn't have them try to play shape, shoot and I will make it work.

I am not Efren by a long shot but he and a shortstop were paired in a scotch doubles match. "Where do you want the cue ball?"

Efren:"It doesn't matter."

You cover your partner playing scotch doubles and let them do their best to cover you.

Hu
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Reminded me of playing scotch doubles a few years ago with my partner being a very strong shortstop level player and me...well, not so much...Scotch doubles, like tennis doubles, comes with the extra level of pressure of not wanting to disappoint your own partner, especially if they're the stronger player, and even when you're the stronger there's the pressure to carry your weaker partner. Can't win.

First time I asked where he wanted the cue ball and his reply was a simple "anywhere in the center of the table", which I delivered. :wink:

Another time I was setting up a ball in hand for two rail shape when he reached over. picked up, and placed my cue ball for a much simpler one rail shape, which I, of course, I already knew...but just a little more pressure causes errors....and embarrassment :embarrassed2:.

Instructions in the middle of a game does more harm than good most of the time.

Jim
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a scotch doubles format it’s always best to trust your partner’s skills and not constantly talk to each other every shot about what you each want to leave each other, etc. If you can’t trust your partner and they can’t trust you, you probably shouldn’t be playing partners with each other.
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This. And we didn't chat on every shot. If either of us got in trouble we would discuss it. I can't think of actual specifics (as it was a very long time ago) but stuff like "thin it on the left and go three rails" and then he'd thin it on the right and leave them dead straight.

Again, it was a long time ago and it was bad enough even the women agreed he should pay.

maha said:
for a lousy 5 bucks you get mad at your partner because he doesnt play the way you want him to. and to top it off you expect to have him pay your share of the loss. thats a real dick move if your think of it.
and if you didnt like the game you could have quit at any time yourself. so basically you free rolled your not to be ever again friend.
you shouldnt gamble as you do not understand how it works.
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I did quit.

1on1pooltournys said:
This is why 1 on 1 pool tourneys the best way to go. Ya get all the glory when you win and can only blame your self when you lose...or the cueball, or the table, or the cloth, or the cue, or the guy across the room that sharked you, or your bad eyes, or the humidity :grin-square:

Do you recall the names of the females that hustled you two?
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I don't remember their names. I'm assuming they were in their 30's at the time so they would be in their 60's now.

couldnthinkof01 said:
If it was me I would never accept money back
from my partner. Wtf, when you put your
$$ up and say me and x are going to
play you, your $$ is gone. Your partner
doesn't owe you squat if you lose unless
the guy unscrews prematurely or something.

Agree with SJM giving a partner, of any
skill level, unsolicited advice is disaster.
You would have to play together quite a
bit to make that work.

Accept that you chose each other,for good
or bad, and accept your fate. From the
sound of it you both know it wasn't on
purpose so why would he owe you?.
Click to expand...

None of the advice was unsoclicited.
 
Chili Palmer said:
None of the advice was unsoclicited.
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Ah, now I get it.... He asked for your opinion and discounted it as not good as his own. It wasn't the fact that he missed, or even what he did in terms of shot selection. Just the fact that he didn't do what you thought he should.

Let me ask you this...: If he didn't ask for your opinion at all during the games and you still lost in the same magnitude. Would you expect him to cover your loses...?

As far as the current discussion on whether or not he should pay for your half of the bet. Well that's just boils down to whether or not your suggestions would have put you up 60, rather than down. Was your partner strong enough, and are you certain enough that if he had done exactly what you suggested you would have come out the winner...?
 
Don't put your fate in the hands of someone else.

Scotch doubles is literally the worst possible way I can think of to play pool.
 
The_JV said:
Ah, now I get it.... He asked for your opinion and discounted it as not good as his own. It wasn't the fact that he missed, or even what he did in terms of shot selection. Just the fact that he didn't do what you thought he should.

Let me ask you this...: If he didn't ask for your opinion at all during the games and you still lost in the same magnitude. Would you expect him to cover your loses...?

As far as the current discussion on whether or not he should pay for your half of the bet. Well that's just boils down to whether or not your suggestions would have put you up 60, rather than down. Was your partner strong enough, and are you certain enough that if he had done exactly what you suggested you would have come out the winner...?
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If we didn't have the opportunity talk I more than likely would've just been pissed he played poorly, even I do that sometimes, ok, most of the time. But conversation between the two players was permissible and so we'd discuss a shot and he'd do the exact opposite. As mentioned, even the ladies thought he ****ed it all up.
 
iusedtoberich said:
It took you 30 years to ask? ha ha:)

I used to play a fair bit doubles for the cash with a couple of buddies of mine 20 years ago. We always told each other before agreeing to the game "do whatever you normally do". This made the experience very smooth for both players, IMO.

Also, alternate shot make the weakest player per team the deciding factor. Whearas alternate turn makes the strongest player per team the deciding factor.
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LOL, I totally forgot about it until my GF and I signed up for scotch doubles. :)

I was 18 or 19 at the time and clearly made a bad choice. I have a select few people I would play scotch doubles these days.
 
Black-Balled said:
Don't put your fate in the hands of someone else.

Scotch doubles is literally the worst possible way I can think of to play pool.
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I disagree as well. When all 4 players are close to the same skill level and the $ stakes are not above what any of the players are comfortable with losing, it can be a lot of fun. The teamwork aspect when you’re both playing well and running out racks when you should, in some ways is just more rewarding than doing it individually.

Yes, of course it sucks when yourself or your partner misses the relatively easy crucial shot to win / lose the session, but that’s what makes it so exciting.
 
None of the advice was unsoclicited.[/QUOTE]

I played $100/stick/game one pocket partners with a
guy who was much better than me at the time.

We could talk and he would try to advise.
Almost everytime he did that my speed was off
or i I hit the ball too thick/ thin. I wasn't complete
dog doo but I sure wasn't playing to my ability.

We were down $300 and I finally had to tell him
" You are going to have to let me just play my game
or quit now."

No more talking we went back and forth a bit.
Ended up $500 to the good per guy.

Playing with someone giving advice is a weird pressure
and I wasn't able to picture the shot in my head the
way I normally do.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
Playing with someone giving advice is a weird pressure
and I wasn't able to picture the shot in my head the
way I normally do.
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When I have been talked into scotch doubles, my first and only suggestion to my partner is...: "Concentrate on making your ball, and if you can help it, don't hook me. I'll take care of the rest."

I put a lot of expectation on my own game. Really isn't fair to put the same pressure on someone else. Even when I have been asked for advice, I normally just tell them to do what they think is right. ...and just don't hook me...lol
 
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The_JV said:
When I have been talked into scotch doubles, my first and only suggestion to my partner is...: "Concentrate on making your ball, and if you can help it, don't hook me. I'll take care of the rest."

I put a lot of expectation on my own game. Really isn't fair to put the same pressure on someone else. Even when I have been asked for advice, I normally just tell them to do what they think is right. ...and just don't hook me...lol
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How has that worked out for you? You might as well tell them not to miss while you’re at it!
 
We play a lot of barbox scotch doubles in the mid-west. Its usually random partner higher skill/lower skill team mates. When my partner asks for shot advice I usually try to give them shot advice and an option but I always, always tell them to do whatever they are most comfortable with even if its not what I suggested. We also have a 2 man per team league and 2 of the games we play for 1 round is scotch doubles. I told my partner that all we needed to do was get 3 balls off the table to win the round, He had BIH and seemed confused on how to start the run to ensure the easiest path to making the 3 balls. Without him asking I suggested his opening shot that would make the run a stop shot and another stop shot for an easy shot on the 3rd ball, sometimes people just dont see the obvious when you're looking at the table, he laughed at how easy it was and the fact that he didnt see it. Stuff just happens sometimes.
 
That’s the thing.

When someone asks for advice, the honest response is usually “You should’ve asked for advice two shots ago when things looked easy but you didn’t plan ahead and took the wrong shot. But here we are now and things look bleak.”

Alternatively, giving advice earlier means talking about how to address problem balls and stay in shape. That kind of advice applies to every shot. And can be tedious to give or receive outside of a formal lesson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
if everybody plays well you eventually get to even in the long run.
Id rather play with myself...

...instead of having to give up 75% of all shots ro you 3 while i am 'playing'.

But as a patron, I am kind of coming from a different position on table time than you.

ChrisinNC said:
I disagree as well. When all 4 players are close to the same skill level and the $ stakes are not above what any of the players are comfortable with losing, it can be a lot of fun. The teamwork aspect when you’re both playing well and running out racks when you should, in some ways is just more rewarding than doing it individually.

Yes, of course it sucks when yourself or your partner misses the relatively easy crucial shot to win / lose the session, but that’s what makes it so exciting.
Click to expand...
 
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