Exactly why I now only view this thread for entertainment purposes...lol
Using "Center Ball" - is it good advice or a hidden disadvantage?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Heh heh, never did.
Lead, follow or get out of the way.
That falls under get out of the way.
I think that everyone keeps talking about the CENTER of the pocket. My understanding has always been that the the best spot to aim at to give a ball the best chance of going in is the spot where the pocket facing (that you can more clearly see) joins with the pocket. Aim at that crack where the facing joins the pocket and NOT the visual center of the pocket (unless of course it's a straight in shot, then shoot to the center of the pocket).
I'd be interested if CJ's ever aims at this spot and not what visually looks like the center...
I'd be interested if CJ's ever aims at this spot and not what visually looks like the center...
Been doing that for years. Keeps you from hitting too much rubber.
If I draw a line from the spot to the back of the pocket lining, where on that line is the visual center of the pocket?
pj
chgo
Isn't it always exactly between the two points of the pocket no matter object ball location? Not talking about where you may "aim" on say a shallow cut along a rail where the ball can touch the rail and still go in at pocket speed. Serious question. Thank you.
~Razor
You were talking about using the mouth of the pocket. What I'm saying is, I don't think you should be aiming to hit the center of the pocket, unless you're shooting from where you're shooting a straight shot with the full pocket lined up right in front of you.
_______
I'm going to take CJ's word for it because I witnessed his top gear being from Texas. I naturally use a touch of inside and always have. Has to do with how I address the ball. I'm not an aiming expert and I play with feel and rhythm when I'm playing my best. To me it feels like I have added and repeatable control over the cue ball. I also prefer nappy cloth, slow semi gaffy tables and tight pockets.
I'm not creating the angle using deflection, although if the ball does deflect it usually enhances the shot. Jack Nicholas the legendary golfer said he FADED the golf ball and effectively took the left side of the golf course out of play....I do the same thing with the undercut side of the pocket.
The margin of error I have is almost twice what players have that don't understand how to utilize zones. Not only is the pocket a zone, the areas that you are positioning the cue ball is also a zone. I just did a video on my Facebook Page that shows how I'm doing it for position play. The pocket is the destination target, the object ball is the alignment reference and the cue ball is the primary target.
There are many shots that it's impossible to see the relationship between the object ball and the center of the pocket. What you can see is the right and left points of each pocket, corners and sides. This is a physical thing you can use to see the severe inside of the zone, and when you have a technique that over-cuts the object ball for sure you will be on your way to experiencing how easy pocket billiards can be. Unfortunately the majority of players practice 10+ hours a week and Never get better, this is a shame, if they took the time to rebuild their foundational stance and stroke they would not be wasting time and would get the satisfaction of improvement every day they dedicate their practice to.
The GAME is the Teacher
I prefer a slower table, too.
I grew up playing before they came out with all the super-fast cloth and rails and back then you really had to develop a stroke to get around the table.
Playing on the fast tables, I always feel I have to hold back my stroke and bunt the balls. That makes my stroke choppy.
I had rather play on the slower tables where I can turn the dogs loose. I like to play where you have to hit the balls firm in order to get around the table. On the fast tables you can bunt the ball and it goes four rails.
And I’m asking: where is the center of the pocket that you shouldn’t aim at? Nobody has yet described that.
pj
chgo
Same here.... Spend more time figuring out how to play an extra rail to eat up the CB speed then anything else.
Yes, you can see the points of the pocket from any perspective, it's like the right or left edge of a fairway on a golf course. Golfers align to the right side and draw the ball towards the middle, and others align to the left side and FADE the ball towards the middle.
People through the years have ask me how I can hit the center every time and they can't, the answer surprises them, I never aim for the center (unless straight or close to straight in), I aim for the inside point of the pocket and hit the cue ball in such a way that I KNOW it's going to over-cut slightly which usually hits the center.
Hitting the center of the pocket is a RESULT, not the incentive, the incentive is to develop a Touch of Inside or Touch of Outside (using spin) to take advantage the Pocket Zone......this is a secret that has been kept from the general public and there are still "Gatekeepers" trying to keep it covered up with "center ball nonsense"........it's bizarre how may players don't know or understand how to create zones playing pool.......all professional golfers do, I guess pool will catch up some day.
The GAME is the Teacher
I thought it was "twist" not spin...?
I quite literally do the same thing. But I call "spin" spin, and aim heavy to the opposite side of the pocket to which the CB squirt (because of applied spin) will correct for. Thus the end result is (hopefully) a center target hit. Don't get "target" confused with center pocket, and/or "pocket zone".
I know what I said above is wildly different (albeit the same practice) with different wording.
I have played with a TOI for years and years and I do it for the following reason.
It kills the natural spin that will be put on the cue ball by it coming off the object ball at an angle.
When the cue ball then hits a rail, it is coming off the rail with less, or no, spin because it will have been lessened or neutralized by the impact and friction of coming across the object ball.
That makes the cue ball look like it is “floating” instead of rolling. I sometimes refer to it as “dead ball”.
It makes it much easier, for me, to navigate the cue ball around the table with angle control and stroke speed. I do not have to worry about how much spin to put on the cue ball. However, I do use spin when I need to change the angle of the cue ball coming off the rail in situations where a TOI dead ball will not let me get into the position I need for the next shot. There are also times where I will use running English in order to significantly change an angle or to make the cue ball travel multiple rails with less stroke speed.
TOI is sometimes confused with an Aiming System. It is not an aiming system...it is a playing system.
It kills the natural spin that will be put on the cue ball by it coming off the object ball at an angle.
When the cue ball then hits a rail, it is coming off the rail with less, or no, spin because it will have been lessened or neutralized by the impact and friction of coming across the object ball.
That makes the cue ball look like it is “floating” instead of rolling. I sometimes refer to it as “dead ball”.
It makes it much easier, for me, to navigate the cue ball around the table with angle control and stroke speed. I do not have to worry about how much spin to put on the cue ball. However, I do use spin when I need to change the angle of the cue ball coming off the rail in situations where a TOI dead ball will not let me get into the position I need for the next shot. There are also times where I will use running English in order to significantly change an angle or to make the cue ball travel multiple rails with less stroke speed.
TOI is sometimes confused with an Aiming System. It is not an aiming system...it is a playing system.
Now that's an explanation of potential benefit of TOI that has merit.
If you wouldn't mind answering this for me, I'd appreciate it..: So if you are using TOI to kill the friction induced spin on the CB with contact with the OB. Do you also add a touch of draw to prevent the CB from rolling to the rail...? ..or is the natural roll of the CB a non-issue...?
I am not sure I understand your question.
I use top and bottom, if needed, but I usually am using a TOI and am hitting at the equator of the cue ball. My cue ball is usually traveling in sort of a slide instead of a roll. The impact of hitting the object ball will usually get rid of the roll, also. I try to keep the cue ball “dead”, unless I need to awaken it and unleash the “Frankenstein”.
Spending several hours at the table playing with the TOI style will make you see angles in a totally different way. Once you cut out all the spinning, you will learn to play position where the “natural” lie of the cue ball will allow you to use a TOI on most of your shots. Cuts out a lot of the thinking. If you can keep shallow angles, you can pretty much use the same stroke on every shot.
Most of the players that I have played who have asked me “how I am doing what I am doing” do not believe that I am hitting inside on almost every shot. Then I explain it to them and show them. Most of them will only stick with it for a few tries and then they will start spinning again because that is what they are comfortable with and they do not want to learn something radically different than what they had always been taught.
Last edited:
Apologies.... What I meant was:
Your explanation of using TOI illustrated that you use spin on the CB to counter act the naturally induced spin the CB would pick up when striking the OB. The idea is that the CB will then "float" (spinless?) into a rail if the need be so that the reflecting angle is as natural as possible.
What I was wondering is if you also use draw along with TOI to counter act what would be the natural roll the CB would normally pick up while heading toward the rail.
I am hitting at the equator or close to it. The TOI and downward angle from my cue being elevated a bit usually kills most all unwanted spins and rolls.
If you try it at the table, it is easier to see than me trying to explain it from my keyboard.
There are times that I put draw plus a TOI on the cue ball and increase my stroke speed a bit. I do that when I want to “widen” the natural distance that the cue ball would naturally come off of hitting the object ball. That allows me to change the angle, while still keeping the cue ball “dead”.
Last edited:
Every experienced player does that as needed - using as much side as needed (a "touch", a "little", whatever) to make the CB do what's wanted. Making a habit of it, much less elevating it to a "system" with a name, is giving it more importance than it's due.
pj
chgo