Question about aiming

livemusic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a really complicated game to get beyond C player! Wow, there is a lot to pool. I don't know as much as most on here. As I attempt to learn more to get better, here's one thing that bugs me. An aiming system. Or the lack thereof.

Over my life of shooting pool casually here and there, somewhere along the way, I began lining up any shot (that is not easy) behind the ball-pocket line. I'd pick out the perceived cue ball contact point for the ball to go into the hole. Then I would keep my eye on that spot and walk back and shoot the shot, never taking my eyes off that contact point. That makes sense, it's intuitive and it works. After having watched countless youtube matches, most pros do not do this. I see pro women do it some. Especially some Asian ladies of late. I assume they are being taught this.

Now, pros have shot a million shots. I assume that their 'eye' gets trained and they don't have to think about much, it just happens. But for one to get there, how?

In a nutshell, here's the issue. Close isn't good enough. I'm a pretty good wing shot with a shotgun. Think skeet shooter. Learning to do that and also having pretty good hand-eye coordination, you can down the target on a consistent basis but there is a bit of a fudge factor built in because a shotgun throws hundreds of bb's, creating a 'shot pattern' going toward the target. If one of those hundreds strikes the clay target, it breaks, it's a hit. With pool, a rattle isn't good enough. And coming close is a big part of keeping one at a C level.

So, can somebody tell me do pros have some kind of aiming system that creates monster players or do they just have some kind of super human hand-eye coordination? And maybe we could/should actually include upper B to A level amateurs with the pros in this group of players that pot most shots.

Another thing to confuse the issue... over the past few months, I decided to try something and that is to just get down on any shot and just 'guess' at what I'd think to be how much of the ball to 'take off' with the cue ball. In my mind, on each shot, just intuitively guess at "that looks about right" and pull the trigger. Intuitively (without lining up anything other than allowing my 'eye' to envision the shot), I can either make most any shot or come close. Coming close once in a great while is to be expected even with a pro but do it often and you're stuck at C level.

It just seems mind-blowing that pros, shot after shot after shot, sink these 'hard' shots, and usually, smack in the center of the hole. How! HOW CAN THEY DO THIS WITHOUT HAVING A PRECISE AIMING SYSTEM? CLOSE WON'T CUT IT!

Pool just seems so strange in that you are not behind the cue ball / object ball sight line unless it's straight in... so, how can you possibly get PRECISE with aiming? Then again, golf is kind of that way in that once you take your stance, you are not behind the shot, you are on top of it. Hmmm... ???

I know there is tons to pool other than this but this seems hugely important.

Lastly, doing what I have done in the past, fixating on the precise perceived contact point and trying to hit that exact spot with the cue ball IS a system. But doesn't seem good enough.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
If your able to ''walk up to the shot'' and get down the same way every time. If your stance is the same every time/on normal shots that your can reach comfortably. If your body/framework/weight is in balance every time (both feet/core), then you've set a baseline. Like a karate expert before they kick then...... When your down your done, and with this baseline' you should be missing your shots the same way every time. If not, if your all over the place, you need a good instructor to fix your mechanics. It's like a well made car, but the frame is slightly bent, and it never goes down the road quite like your friend that has the same vehicle.
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
There's another sub forum for all things aiming system. If you're trying to find something to distract you from improving, I think that's the place to be. ...I'm kidding, but seriously.

Sounds to me like you're still dialing in you fundamentals. Drills are what you should be focusing on. Stance mechanics etc...

Since I picked up a cue I have been using the "ghost ball" method. I don't place my cue on the table as I think you described, but I do get the OB line to the pocket, and then determine the line the CB must follow to strike the OB down that pocket line. Easy peasy... Once you've hit enough balls the CB / OB contact point becomes second nature and you tend to fore go the process.

In short, the best aiming system imo is practice.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Invest some money- buy two books- Championship pool and Play Great Pool. Start with that. When you have done all the drills, and really understood what the books are telling you- you should have a basis for: Stance, Aiming, pre- Shot Routine, and Executing the shots themselves. You MUST video yourself when at the table- and review every video to see where you are not doing things as the books instruct and where you are doing things correctly.

If, after 6 months of video, practice, drills, and reviews, you still are not happy with your progress- then invest in a good qualified instructor. There are no shortcuts to getting the right fundamentals.
 

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
Beginners show up here asking . . . and are told . . . but I never see a mention of one of pool's most important elements: etiquette. Should be Chapter 1 in any book. At its base and at its best, pool is a gentleman's game. Learn and incorporate appropriate behavior into your game, and you will benefit greatly -- it can take you places you never thought you would go.

Aiming, mine is another ghostball vote. Further, what has been said, plus S T R O K E.
A successful pool game consists of many components, none of which can be overlooked or shortchanged, but, ultimately, a smooth, consistent stroke will be your greatest asset.

I spent years teaching myself anywhere I found a table. Observation, trial, and error were my A, B, C's of pool. The only "instruction" I ever received was through random advice and critiques from experienced players when I finally developed enough confidence to play in a real pool hall. I could have greatly benefited from formal instruction, but I do not recall that such an option existed in my time and place.

Good luck, enjoy yourself.
 

livemusic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does what I described in the OP seem to be the same as ghost ball? To me, from what I have read, it does. As I said, I get behind the ball-pocket line and pick what I see as the contact point. I keep that precise spot in my eye and go back and take my stance. Then I envision where the cue ball, on its curved surface, will strike that contact point. I match those up in my mind's eye and shoot. Is that ghost ball?

So, you guys are saying that pros really don't rely on an aiming system? If they just get down a shot (even after shooting a million shots) and don't have to line anything up and shoot and make 98% of their attempts (an arbitrary percentage I am using, I have no idea but it's way up there)... and have VERY few rattles... that is amazing. I suppose I should be even more amazed by watching Ronnie O'Sullivan shoot those 147's on snooker tables.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I spent years teaching myself anywhere I found a table. Observation, trial, and error were my A, B, C's of pool. The only "instruction" I ever received was through random advice and critiques from experienced players when I finally developed enough confidence to play in a real pool hall. I could have greatly benefited from formal instruction, but I do not recall that such an option existed in my time and place.

Good luck, enjoy yourself.
Same here... No joys of the information age for me. I suppose I could have ran down to the city library and hunted for some instruction books. Unfortunately the years that were spent learning the basics of the game were the same ones that had me not wanting to stick my nose in a book...lol
 

livemusic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Same here... No joys of the information age for me. I suppose I could have ran down to the city library and hunted for some instruction books. Unfortunately the years that were spent learning the basics of the game were the same ones that had me not wanting to stick my nose in a book...lol

LOL, I note your sig...

A simple game, played by difficult people...

We could flip that.

A difficult game played by simple people...

!!!
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Does what I described in the OP seem to be the same as ghost ball?
Yep pretty much... the finer details can be different from player to player, but the concept is the same

So, you guys are saying that pros really don't rely on an aiming system?
Nope didn't say that... I think SVB using some center to edge thing. Never heard of it on the pro level, but I knew a guy that swore he used the table light's reflection...lol
I suppose I should be even more amazed by watching Ronnie O'Sullivan shoot those 147's on snooker tables.
Yep you should.... ;)
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Having the right coach or instructor to work with would be my choice. Absent that I resorted to any book I could find, starting with a small one by Willie Mosconi.
Barry Stark has made a series of instruction videos available on YouTube. I find his message and coaching very valuable. Kyren Wilson has worked with Barry. Here is a list of 147 videos. Well worth the time to study.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. If you believe in conspiracy theories, check out CJ Wiley's aiming system (TOI): https://masteringpocketbilliards.com

2. If you believe in UFO's, check out the new CTE (Center to Edge) Aiming book:
3. If you believe in simplicity, check out Tor Lowry's videos:

4. If you believe in math and science, check out all things Dr. Dave: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/aiming/dam/, https://drdavebilliards.com/videos/saws/, https://drdavebilliards.com/videos/aiming/disc-i/
 
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maha

from way back when
Silver Member
what people that miss too often do is always the same thing. their tip does not go straight. if you cant make your cue go back and forth straight then your tip wont hit where you are aiming or want it to go. simple as that.
\ to get better you have to practice your stroke to get it dead straight.

if you cant do that no aiming is going to help.
 

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quick note: If you're aiming at the contact point you will always hit the ball too full.

randyg
 

livemusic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quick note: If you're aiming at the contact point you will always hit the ball too full.

randyg

Is that due to skid or throw or swerve or one of these other terms I am trying to internalize? Lotsa terms to sort out, lol. But really, exactly what do you mean by that? TIA!

what people that miss too often do is always the same thing. their tip does not go straight. if you cant make your cue go back and forth straight then your tip wont hit where you are aiming or want it to go. simple as that.
\ to get better you have to practice your stroke to get it dead straight.

if you cant do that no aiming is going to help.

I think you are partly, but not wholly, correct. A proper stroke striking the cue ball on the intended line is key and will def need work. But just as key is seeing the proper line in the first place. And taking into account factors like those mentioned above in this post!
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think your system is called equal opposites sometimes. It is what I use sorta! Over a bazillion and one or two shots I have built out the backside of the cue ball in my mind that we can't really see. My perception of the backside of the cue ball is wrong in a technical sense, it isn't a half moon shape. I think of it as the other half of the front half of the cue ball that I can see but in reality I have built in the adjustments for squirt and swerve using all kinds of spin. If I spend too much time trying to really break down aiming systems it mostly gives me a headache. I look at one for entertainment sometimes but always return to what I know.

No matter what aiming system we learn, there are always going to be adjustments for table conditions. The system gets you close but there is no way a fixed system can cover how cold it is, how humid it is, how hot it is. Then there are variations in tables. Aside from all the various commercial tables, somebody tries to put in a pool hall using junk furniture tables now and then . They rarely last six months. Even if they swap to quality tables they have lost that new place window of opportunity and it is very hard to build a business once damaged. As soon as I hit a ball into the rail on these tables I lose interest. I could adjust to these crap tables in one place but why bother? This place will be gone before I visit it three times.

Choose any aiming system you like. Then realize all it is going to do is get you close. Some days it will work, some days it won't . After hitting enough balls adjustments come automatically.

Hu
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Quick note: If you're aiming at the contact point you will always hit the ball too full.
Is that due to skid or throw or swerve or one of these other terms I am trying to internalize?
Sounds like Randy's saying if you aim the CB's center at the OB contact point you'll always hit too full. This is true - of course you have to aim the CB's contact point at the OB contact point. This is the source of much of the difficulty of aiming (and why aiming systems exist) - we can "see" the OB contact point, but not the CB contact point we need to hit it with.

pj
chgo
 

livemusic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like Randy's saying if you aim the CB's center at the OB contact point you'll always hit too full. This is true - of course you have to aim the CB's contact point at the OB contact point. This is the source of much of the difficulty of aiming (and why aiming systems exist) - we can "see" the OB contact point, but not the CB contact point we need to hit it with.

pj
chgo
I def do NOT mean aim the cue ball's center. Above, I said... "I envision where the cue ball, on its curved surface, will strike that contact point." If it was not clear from the OP, hopefully, this is cleared up. There are two 'spots' to be concerned with in my 'system.' The spot on the object ball that I think is the contact point and the spot on the cue ball that I think must match the object ball's point of contact.

This 'system' is not anything I learned, I just made it up. I've always been fascinated by and did well in school with geometry. One time, I had a lady friend who liked to play but she was terrible. She had no clue how to aim. I said something like... "It's like this. The balls are two spheres. Those two spheres are going to meet, hopefully! (And I was holding each fist in the shape of a 'sphere.') You wanna try to make this happen in your mind's eye and in reality: Cause the cue ball to strike the object ball such that the chosen spot on each ball meets." I dunno if she really understood but she sure did beam and she never forgot it, she has repeated that a dozen times to various people over the years like I am some kind of pool wizard and that was the Eureka! moment for her, lol.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like Randy's saying if you aim the CB's center at the OB contact point you'll always hit too full. This is true - of course you have to aim the CB's contact point at the OB contact point. This is the source of much of the difficulty of aiming (and why aiming systems exist) - we can "see" the OB contact point, but not the CB contact point we need to hit it with.

pj
chgo
I really like this explanation- add to it that sometimes on more extreme cut shots- you can't see either contact point when you are down on the shot- it all becomes memory then. I believe that once someone has played enough hours, days, years of pool- the aiming is really about memory and as someone else said, being able to deliver your cue stick straight to the intended target most consistently becomes the greater challenge.

So, the logical conclusion from this is to play lots and lots of pool to develop your aiming memory and work very diligently from day one on a solid stroke that is consistently straight to the intended target. No sense over complicating it.

I will go a step further and say that you MUST use the video and constant video analysis of your stroke in order to get it most consistent. It is, I think, the reason there are so many very, very straight shooters today among the pro ranks. These folks were smart enough to utilize the technology available to actually see what they do that is correct and incorrect and make it right! There were far fewer great shotmakers prior to the video onslaught- usually it was only the most naturally gifted that rose to the top ranks in pool.
 
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Buckzapper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Learn what deflection is and how to adjust for spin and speed. Learn what constitutes a crappy cue ball. Food and dirty object balls will not help transfer the hit to the object ball. Maintain self control. Slamming a shot is not necessary. Like in any shooting sport, hold your head still.
 
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