Billy Thorpe gone wild!

ChrisinNC said:
Yeah, it’s not a good situation for a TD to be in having to deal with Earl. The bottom line is many spectators come to see him play, so for the sake of the promoters, it’s not that simple to DQ him for his misbehavior, without upsetting a lot of people.

Yes, it is a precedent that should have been set with Earl and others many years ago and sounds like Jay tried his best to, but others (possibly Scott Smith) may have put up with a lot more misbehavior from Earl than they should have.
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Well said Chris.

I think it is that simple. There are people that come to see Earl play due to the draw of his controversy, and there are people that come to see top pool played in a professional manner and enjoy a contest of world class skill.

At some point you have to decide what you're promoting. Is this America's Got Talent or the Jerry Springer show? They both draw an audience. But if you allow bullies and confrontational antics to go unchecked then you will turn away some of the folk that want to see a clean game. Even if Jerry Springer has a bigger daytime audience, we have to decide which is more important, the integrity of the game or a few rubberneckers.

My opinion is that if you can't run tournaments that are exciting and popular without using drama as a hook then you are doing something seriously wrong. And I think the TD has an obligation to those who took time and money to participate in the event to protect them from abusive behavior on the part of the other players.
 
Without a penalty for poor behavior during a match

players are rewarded for acting out because their opponent misses.

I doubt this issue will be addressed to the level fans are happy with.

players are punished for taking the higher ground. Look at Jayson Shaw Vs Earl. Earl called the two ball and it was on film. But Jayson's complaints fell on deaf ears. Earl went on to win the match.

John Leyman officiated that one. I would say that is a tough call to make in a live situation.
 
Worth remembering that the well behaved snooker fans are the same people that riot in the stands and streets over football games.(soccer) The officials enforce the rules with the crowds and players. I can't remember the event, might have been the Mosconi Cup, Earl got out of line with Michaela Tabb when she was referee for a match. It was made plain enough that his behavior wasn't acceptable that he brought her a large bouquet of flowers the next day! You don't mess with Ms Tabb.

I have been an official at a few events over the years, both more and less rowdy than pool tournaments. I gave instructions, they were followed. The instructions were reasonable, and nonnegotiable. Arguing with an official could and usually would get a DQ. Touching anyone in anger or spitting on someone got the same result along with a long suspension or outright ban.

The people with the purse strings have control over how people behave at their events. If they weren't willing to tolerate behavior that gives pool a black eye it wouldn't happen! Cutting someone off from the money teat would go a long way towards reining in unacceptable behavior. If we ever get a real mens tour I hope part of the prize money is contributed to a points fund that is paid off on at the end of the season. All players would have to sign a contract agreeing to be fined for violation of rules if it is extreme enough. This money would roll back into the points fund so players are still getting the money, just not those that choose to act out.

I don't want to watch wind up toys playing or zombies in the crowd. However there is a limit to all things. While it has sometimes been Earl who started things, it is also true that spectators often instigate the outbursts of Earl. Such things should be made very clear that they are unacceptable and fans should be thrown out immediately if they interfere with a match. A few simple rules for fans should be handed out when they pay to watch and the penalties listed.

We can control the crowd and players but we have to want to.

Hu
 
justnum said:
Without a penalty for poor behavior during a match

players are rewarded for acting out because their opponent misses.

I doubt this issue will be addressed to the level fans are happy with.

players are punished for taking the higher ground. Look at Jayson Shaw Vs Earl. Earl called the two ball and it was on film. But Jayson's complaints fell on deaf ears. Earl went on to win the match.

John Leyman officiated that one. I would say that is a tough call to make in a live situation.
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That one was tricky as Earl did mistakenly call the wrong ball but it was obvious in my opinion which ball he was shooting for. I think Shaw should have let it go- it was almost the equivalent of somebody getting mad that somebody didn't call an 8 ball that went straight into the pocket.
 
Tin Man said:
Well said Chris.

I think it is that simple. There are people that come to see Earl play due to the draw of his controversy, and there are people that come to see top pool played in a professional manner and enjoy a contest of world class skill.

At some point you have to decide what you're promoting. Is this America's Got Talent or the Jerry Springer show? They both draw an audience. But if you allow bullies and confrontational antics to go unchecked then you will turn away some of the folk that want to see a clean game. Even if Jerry Springer has a bigger daytime audience, we have to decide which is more important, the integrity of the game or a few rubberneckers.

My opinion is that if you can't run tournaments that are exciting and popular without using drama as a hook then you are doing something seriously wrong. And I think the TD has an obligation to those who took time and money to participate in the event to protect them from abusive behavior on the part of the other players.
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Yes, as TD of our weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament, I would never put up with the antics the like I’ve witnessed from Earl at the U.S. Open without a stern warning followed by a DQ for a second infraction.

The WPBA took a firm stand with their star player Jean Balukus many years ago with a fine, after in frustration Jean mumbled some unkindly things regarding her opponent in a match, that were likely tame in comparison to things Earl has gotten away with saying.
Sadly, the incident, subsequent fine and her own stubbornness lead to the early retirement of Jean from the tour, although most feel she deserved the minor fine she received.
 
westcoast said:
That one was tricky as Earl did mistakenly call the wrong ball but it was obvious in my opinion which ball he was shooting for. I think Shaw should have let it go- it was almost the equivalent of somebody getting mad that somebody didn't call an 8 ball that went straight into the pocket.
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perfect examples of following rules when you want to.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Yes, as TD of our weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament, I would never put up with the antics the like I’ve witnessed from Earl at the U.S. Open without a stern warning followed by a DQ for a second infraction.

The WPBA took a firm stand with their star player Jean Balukus many years ago with a fine, after in frustration Jean mumbled some unkindly things regarding her opponent in a match, that were likely tame in comparison to things Earl has gotten away with saying.
Sadly, the incident and subsequent fine lead to the early retirement of Jean from the tour, although most feel she deserved the fine she received.
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Yes. There are a lot of extreme personalities and mental illness at the extremes of any sport. I feel their pain but the sport, fans, and other players come first. It would've been more tragic for Jean to keep playing and other women feeling violated from the lack of support from their community.
 
westcoast said:
That one was tricky as Earl did mistakenly call the wrong ball but it was obvious in my opinion which ball he was shooting for. I think Shaw should have let it go- it was almost the equivalent of somebody getting mad that somebody didn't call an 8 ball that went straight into the pocket.
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If you’re referring to the 14.1 tournament, I disagree that the wrong numbered ball Earl called near the end of the match was obvious - it was nearly a 90° cut shot on one of the numerous balls that was in the rack area. Yeah, Shaw could have let it go, but I can’t say I blame him considering it was Earl.
 
Cuebuddy said:
I just listened to Billy and he explained what happened. IMHO its all good. Lets try to understand that it can happen and he has shown remorse.
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So it's all good that this professional told his opponent he racks like "a little f***ing fa**ot"? That stuff isn't cool anywhere, anytime!
I don't accept or understand that it can happen. IMHO
Arguments happen, derogatory remarks shouldn't.
 
rickdf said:
So it's all good that this professional told his opponent he racks like "a little f***ing fa**ot"? That stuff isn't cool anywhere, anytime!
I don't accept or understand that it can happen. IMHO
Arguments happen, derogatory remarks shouldn't.
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Like I stated Billy had apologized. There are few of us who have not said derogatory remarks at one time or another when they have been upset. If you are one that has not then you are a great person.

No one will feel this sting as much as Billy. The chance for him to learn from this and move on, is on him. I personally believe he is a good man and I am willing to forgive.
 
I seem to remember an incident where Jeremy Jones got hot at Earl, invited him to the parking lot, and threatened him with bodily harm. This is available for all to see. Seems like Matchroom was able to move on from this incident and include JJ in their plans.

Also, a professional golfer, major winner, was recently caught on camera calling his ball a f****ot when a putt slid past the hole. He lost a sponsor or two, but will be there swinging at Augusta National in a couple of months.

None of this excuses BT's actions. But this cancel culture crap has to stop. He apologized WITH THE OTHER PARTY INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT, and we have people analyzing facial expressions and opining on his sincerity. For others, the apology is not contrite enough for their tastes, or it wasn't worded as if written by a PR firm.

Yes it is a bad look for a professional. Maybe with enough hand wringing and clutching of the pearls Emily Fraser will see this thread and ban Billy from Mosconi Cup. It seems like some folks won't be happy with anything less. I don't think a young dude making a drunken mistake deserves to have his livelihood threatened, especially when he is "off the clock" so to speak. If all pro sports were held to that standard, the list would be long and distinguished of those disqualified. Just my 2 cents.
 
Don't know if this has been stated in the thread (I don't feel like re-reading every post)- but does anybody know if they kept playing after this? If so, who won?
 
jokrswylde said:
I seem to remember an incident where Jeremy Jones got hot at Earl, invited him to the parking lot, and threatened him with bodily harm. This is available for all to see. Seems like Matchroom was able to move on from this incident and include JJ in their plans.

Also, a professional golfer, major winner, was recently caught on camera calling his ball a f****ot when a putt slid past the hole. He lost a sponsor or two, but will be there swinging at Augusta National in a couple of months.

None of this excuses BT's actions. But this cancel culture crap has to stop. He apologized WITH THE OTHER PARTY INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT, and we have people analyzing facial expressions and opining on his sincerity. For others, the apology is not contrite enough for their tastes, or it wasn't worded as if written by a PR firm.

Yes it is a bad look for a professional. Maybe with enough hand wringing and clutching of the pearls Emily Fraser will see this thread and ban Billy from Mosconi Cup. It seems like some folks won't be happy with anything less. I don't think a young dude making a drunken mistake deserves to have his livelihood threatened, especially when he is "off the clock" so to speak. If all pro sports were held to that standard, the list would be long and distinguished of those disqualified. Just my 2 cents.
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I don't want him banned from the cup. I think people are just saying that he should refrain from such actions in the future.
 
jokrswylde said:
I seem to remember an incident where Jeremy Jones got hot at Earl, invited him to the parking lot, and threatened him with bodily harm. This is available for all to see. Seems like Matchroom was able to move on from this incident and include JJ in their plans.

Also, a professional golfer, major winner, was recently caught on camera calling his ball a f****ot when a putt slid past the hole. He lost a sponsor or two, but will be there swinging at Augusta National in a couple of months.

None of this excuses BT's actions. But this cancel culture crap has to stop. He apologized WITH THE OTHER PARTY INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT, and we have people analyzing facial expressions and opining on his sincerity. For others, the apology is not contrite enough for their tastes, or it wasn't worded as if written by a PR firm.

Yes it is a bad look for a professional. Maybe with enough hand wringing and clutching of the pearls Emily Fraser will see this thread and ban Billy from Mosconi Cup. It seems like some folks won't be happy with anything less. I don't think a young dude making a drunken mistake deserves to have his livelihood threatened, especially when he is "off the clock" so to speak. If all pro sports were held to that standard, the list would be long and distinguished of those disqualified. Just my 2 cents.
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He never wrote that he apologized (thats saying im sorry by the way, not " i apologize) to Robb.
 
Cuebuddy said:
Like I stated Billy had apologized. There are few of us who have not said derogatory remarks at one time or another when they have been upset. If you are one that has not then you are a great person.

No one will feel this sting as much as Billy. The chance for him to learn from this and move on, is on him. I personally believe he is a good man and I am willing to forgive.
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This isn't black and white. There is a big difference between a derogatory remark, a squabble, physical threats, and those who cross over to physical assault. There is also a difference based on level of hostility and duration.

If someone makes an inappropriate remark or if someone gets into a heated argument, I think a warning is appropriate. On the other hand if someone assaults someone physically then we can't just say "We all make mistakes".

Somewhere in between there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. There should be different consequences for different infractions. Billy didn't assault Rob so I don't think he should be barred from pro events or anything. But based on the threats of violence and the level and duration of his tirade I don't think we can minimize this as just a ill timed remark that anyone could have made.

So while I am not a 'great person' or without sin, no, I have never acted like this and don't think this is permissible. When I worked for a company if I was in public and acted this way wearing a work shirt I would get fired even if I was off duty because I was poorly representing the company. One important detail is this didn't happen during a tournament match. So there is no TD involved. And I don't think Billy should be barred from tournaments or anything like this. It's up to the promoters to decide what is allowed, and I don't have a horse in the race. But I do think he represents the USA and pro pool and a big line was crossed here.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
So you don’t want to address the fact that MJ is a racist?

But you proved that no one gives a flying fuck about gambling in the big times, so why is Billy being held under a microscope? And yes, people’s failures 30 years ago in containing the train wreck of Earl has led to quite a few issues regarding sportsmanship. I mean fuck, the APA doesn’t even include rules for proper racking. And that’s one of my biggest issues of late. So yes, people 30 years ago need to be held accountable for their lack of ethics, as it has stained the sport for the last 30 years. Did people in the 80’s cheat as much as people do now? No, they got their fucking cheating asses beat.
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What does MJ being a racist have to do with this thread?
jay helfert said:
The actions of Tiger, Phil and Michael in money games was all a matter of innuendo and never shown live on the internet or anywhere else for that matter. Big difference to what we saw here.

One other thing. I'm tired of hearing about the all the TD's that let Earl get away with murder. That's bullshit! I can tell you that he never got away with anything when I was directing tournaments he played in. I penalized him games and even forfeited him once for bad behavior, and Earl got the message after awhile and was always on his best behavior around me after that.

Look for his match with Landon Shuffett in the BigFoot Ten Ball on youtube. He started on Landon early in the match, talking when he was shooting. I sat down and babysat Earl for the rest of the match! I told him he could talk while he was at the table but not while Landon was shooting. He basically STFU after that and Landon laid a bomb on him, something like 15-3.
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LOL, I love watching that match, well done...👍
 
Billy posted a picture later of him and Robb and that they had made up and it was just a heat of the moment thing. But here is yet another example of why pool is not ready for "primetime" like the other sports. If he were a baseball player and was caught on video saying that, his career would be done. Tom Brennaman, TV broadcaster for the Cincinnati Reds, was caught off air saying F** once and was taken off the broadcast and forced to resign. When your sport or yourself get to be mainstream, this behavior can't occur. That is part of being a professional. It isn't just having pro level game. It is having pro level demeanor and image as well.
 
briankenobi said:
Billy posted a picture later of him and Robb and that they had made up and it was just a heat of the moment thing. But here is yet another example of why pool is not ready for "primetime" like the other sports. If he were a baseball player and was caught on video saying that, his career would be done. Tom Brennaman, TV broadcaster for the Cincinnati Reds, was caught off air saying F** once and was taken off the broadcast and forced to resign. When your sport or yourself get to be mainstream, this behavior can't occur. That is part of being a professional. It isn't just having pro level game. It is having pro level demeanor and image as well.
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Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder was fired many years ago for comments made. Howard Cosell got into heat as well. And of course, The Dixie Chics got in trouble for saying something about Bush. It's not a new phenomenon by any means. (I'm agreeing with you if it's not clear).
 
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