Billy Thorpe gone wild!

Indeed, Lou, but for decades now, countless American pros (and I've know at least 100 of them as friends over the years) take the view "I will behave tastefully and present myself gracefully when someone pays me enough to do so." It is a delusional view of how the world works. In the real world, it is tasteful behavior and graceful self-presentation that bring those hoping for advancement a step closer to success.

Hence, American pool players who think they can behave this way with impunity are correct on the most basic level. Looking more closely, however, they compromise their prospects of ever getting paid real money, make their sport less attractive to youth and more objectionable to their parents, and ensure the continuation of pool's poor image, which scares away potential out-of-industry sponsors.

It's a deep rooted problem in American pro pool's culture, and until American pros hold each other accountable when they compromise their sport's good name, it's hard to be bullish on Matchroom's odyssey to bring greater professionalism to American pool. Still, if anyone can pull it off, it's Matchroom.
I missed this comment! Lots of merit to it! But, pool players are in the middle of a tug of war!

One side is the drug dealers and mafia with large resources looking to sponsor action and help a pool player make some money

Vs.

Matchroom / mosconi cup and living off of tournament winnings exclusively! Plus, some minor endorsement deals.


The rules in the two worlds are much different!

You are either matchrooms bit$h !

Or

You are the Mafia and drug dealers bit$h!

This is the problem! At least in American pool.....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 
I missed this comment! Lots of merit to it! But, pool players are in the middle of a tug of war!

One side is the drug dealers and mafia with large resources looking to sponsor action and help a pool player make some money

Vs.

Matchroom / mosconi cup and living off of tournament winnings exclusively! Plus, some minor endorsement deals.


The rules in the two worlds are much different!

You are either matchrooms bit$h !

Or

You are the Mafia and drug dealers bit$h!

This is the problem! At least in American pool.....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
What kind of fantasy world is this^^^^^ Mafia and Drug dealers??????
 
Picture this:

Many years ago Robb was in a handicapped tourney in Stamford, CT in which he drew a handicapped opponent, a man in a wheel chair. Robb lost and was berating the guy and threatening him and got close enough that the guy lunged up at him came right out of his wheel chair & got Robb in a head lock then began pummeling him. Robb was in big trouble looking around for help but nobody was interested to provide any figuring he was getting just what he deserved.

Take away lesson: Don't fk with guys in wheel chairs for 2 reasons: It's deplorable behavior and some of them have crazy upper body strength. 💪

best,
brian kc
Are you serious? That is horrible
 
What kind of fantasy world is this^^^^^ Mafia and Drug dealers??????
Where you been ?

Two top Philippine players had mafia escorts for a decade or more!

Strawberry was sponsored by little melvin of the HBO series the wire!



Barney the dinosaur got locked up protecting his backer

The hatched egg was locked up with a stick up ring.

Philadelphia had its own crew of backers.

The hawiaan fire walker had his legal troubles.

My knowledge of underworld activity and pool is pretty spot on! Not a lot of people with disposable income high enough to bet big enough for top pool players to be involved sitting around at the pool room except a few underworld people....

Kd


Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 
Where you been ?

Two top Philippine players had mafia escorts for a decade or more!

Strawberry was sponsored by little melvin of the HBO series the wire!



Barney the dinosaur got locked up protecting his backer

The hatched egg was locked up with a stick up ring.

Philadelphia had its own crew of backers.

The hawiaan fire walker had his legal troubles.

My knowledge of underworld activity and pool is pretty spot on! Not a lot of people with disposable income high enough to bet big enough for top pool players to be involved sitting around at the pool room except a few underworld people....

Kd


Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Lol. All in the past and definitely not the NORM
 
My sense here is that, unless Billy's contract with Cuetec had a specified code of conduct clause that was violated here, Cuetec has overreacted.

I admire Cuetec very much and know they have contributed greatly to our sport at both the amateur and pro levels over the years, Cuetec is a credit to our sport, but in what sense are they "stewards of the game"? I admire them for caring about the environment surrounding pool, and certainly, they have every right to put their sponsorship dollars where they feel they will do the most good. That said, they associated themselves with Earl for years and tolerated his frequent disrespect for the game, so they are hardly stewards of the pro game's dignity.

As I've noted before, I'm not sure this incident is really about Billy Thorpe, who made a mistake, has apologized for it and has hopefully learned from it. To me, this incident is more about the failure of America's top players, as a unit, to try to embody the very clearly stated vision and ideals of Matchroom in positioning the American pro pool product at a time when Matchroom is increasing its investment in American pool.

The danger, of course, is that Cuetec's appetite for using pro players as its representatives and Matchroom's appetite for further investment in American pool can both be diminished by this incident, but at least for now, there is no evidence that this has been the result.

Yes, Billy made a mistake, but this strikes me as too great a penalty for him to pay.
Corporations are economic entities. They can feign morality when they feel it suits their profitability, nothing more. What behavior cuetec tolerates is a mere financial decision. Earl was a draw back in the day and was a big name then and now. Billy Thorpe? Outside of this forum, few know the name. Little gained by signing Thorpe and little lost by dropping him from their sponsorship roster. In the end, I'm surprised they bothered to make a statement.
 
Corporations are economic entities. They can feign morality when they feel it suits their profitability, nothing more. What behavior cuetec tolerates is a mere financial decision. Earl was a draw back in the day and was a big name then and now. Billy Thorpe? Outside of this forum, few know the name. Little gained by signing Thorpe and little lost by dropping him from their sponsorship roster. In the end, I'm surprised they bothered to make a statement.

clearly emphasizing the public need for cleaning up pool behavior is expensive.

Cue Tec is taking on all the cost for the entire community.
Billy was the last straw.

It is a curious thing. If Matchroom catches word of this, their response is on the global level. Emily Frazer holds the power.

Supporting someone through a situation like this Billy could need more guidance and development.

Is any one following Billys Instagram?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sjm
He needs anger management classes ? Really? Am I missing something? this is a one time incident as I can tell. He doesn’t have a habit of this. He’s not earl strickland LOL

And jay you should come down off your high horse a bit. You were a big hustler . Aka you stole from people for a living. I’m sure you have tons of altercations in bar rooms youre glad weren’t recorded.
You must not be in touch with current events in the pool world, I guess.

Everybody—and I mean EVERYBODY—has a little larceny in them when it comes to matching up in pool. Why do you think the barkfests take so long in an action game? Most people today are looking for somebody to drop their wallet. They don't want to gamble today.

Jay grew up in an era when pool players roamed the countryside and were the strangers in town, challenging anybody and everybody. Sometimes they'd win, but sometimes they got their butt kicked by the house pro. It was a true gamble. Road agents, of course, were looking to make money on the road, but it didn't always work out that way. Sometimes the house wins, and most road agents knew the phone number of Western Union by heart when they went bust as the stranger in town.

You seem to have a beef with Jay, and I don't understand why. Your words written to him are very harsh and unwarranted, in my opinion. If Jay is riding a high horse, so are we all, those of us who experienced the golden years of pool. Maybe you need to hop up and enjoy the view instead of hiding behind your computer monitor and writing mean-spirited things about one of pool's brightest celebrities.
 
I have found this to be a generally disheartening thread.

Certainly, most of us see a problem here, and that's the good part. Most of us understand that Matchroom's growing interest in and increased appetite for investment in pool in America are the biggest breath of fresh air in American pool in years. Emily Frazer at Matchroom has stressed, both verbally and in print, that cleaning up the image of the American pool pro is fundamental to Matchroom's plans and vision to grow the pro pool product worldwide. In the politest words she could find, she expressed just how big a transformation will be needed to bring greater professionalism to those that play pro pool in America.

I don't think the point of this thread is to single out Billy Thorpe, whose behavior was, even by his own account, off base. Has Matchroom been hurt here? Probably not much, but what is sadly apparent here is that the most visible American pros have yet to buy in to Matchrrom's vision for the sport, which compromises Matchroom's chances of bringing pool to a higher level of professionalism. Matchroom did this for snooker some 40 years ago, but on that occasion, the players bought in and conducted themselves with professionalism even before their earnings skyrocketed.

What has been disheartening is just how many posters see what happened here as no big deal. It's seems it's this way on AZB every time any pool professional gets out of line in their behavior. American pool's poor image has, at least to some extent, been made worse over the years by the willingness of so many American pool fans to tolerate such unprofessional conduct.
Stu I have a lot of respect for you. I don’t mean this to be a personal attack. But I gotta ask—why is it so shocking that many of us think this is a case of virtue signaling and overreaction over Thorpe’s actions? You’ve been around pool for longer than me and I’m getting close to 40 years in the game. In that time I’ve never once been to a pool room where such behavior wasn’t the norm. I’ve personally put men in the hospital, drew my gun on others, (hell I almost shot the newspaper delivery guy because he drove up on me at about 60 in the parking lot and I thought I was being robbed). I’ve seen drugs EVERY SINGLE TIME I’ve been to a pool room. Fights are an almost daily occurrence. The language used by Thorpe was normal. I’m not saying this stuff is right, merely that it is the norm. And anyone honest will admit that. I’m saying that this is American pool and IT WILL NEVER CHANGE as long as testosterone and booze and gambling continue to mix in so-called “billiard parlors”. Personally I find myself right at home with it. I’ll likely get shot some day, I admit, but I feel right at home with the environment and if it goes away I think we are losing one of the last vestiges of true historic masculinity in America. You do realize that what we think of as civilized male behavior these days is not the norm in history right? Persia, Greece, Rome etc et al. What Billy did was kid behavior back then. Trust me I’ve got 10 years of higher education that backs me up. Maybe if we weren’t so castrated these days and so prone to faux outrage we’d see this like I do: humorous. Thorpe acted like an ass. Saez probably did too. Nobody got hurt. Nobody got killed. Nobody even got arrested. I don’t think any property got damaged. Compared with the BLM/Antifa bunch these guys were angels and those rioting nutjobs are called heroes by our “woke culture”. If the folks in the pool community want to keep going down the same path of virtue signaling outrage they’re going to get exactly what they’re asking for. Unfortunately it’s going to entail the disappearance of the pool room from this country. The idea that this will hurt pro pool’s popularity seems ridiculous to me. The major sports have much worse behavior. But it’s the “woke” attitude that’s killing their ratings not the bad behavior. The things I’ve seen from pros since the 80s make this seem trivial. My mentor, a well known and loved pro (rest his soul) used to give me qaludes when I was a teen for Pete’s sake. He used to joke about popping different color pills and “waiting for the glow”. He had some tantrums that make Thorpe seem tame. And he’s still one of the most beloved players in history. I bet if I named him I’d get crucified for sullying his name. But all of a sudden Thorpe gets drunk and acts like an ass and folks are calling for him to be banned from Mosconi, his cue sponsor canceled him and if these folks have their way another top player is gone from the American scene. Yeah that’s going to do wonders for American pro pool. 🤦‍♂️
 
Pool needs all the fans it can get right now. This stunt by Billy can be pivoted into the rebranding of American pool.

Based on the tournament calender, the pool community is clueless about how to create a social movement.

Maybe the hashtag#poolrooms support all people or something of that nature

So many have openly voiced their discontent with what happen. The next stage is community support for people of all sexual orientations being respected for how they rack. Everyone on instagram, just racking and be like
this rack is for you or other slogan.

And support for Billy's transition to maturity.
 
I missed this comment! Lots of merit to it! But, pool players are in the middle of a tug of war!

One side is the drug dealers and mafia with large resources looking to sponsor action and help a pool player make some money

Vs.

Matchroom / mosconi cup and living off of tournament winnings exclusively! Plus, some minor endorsement deals.


The rules in the two worlds are much different!

You are either matchrooms bit$h !

Or

You are the Mafia and drug dealers bit$h!

This is the problem! At least in American pool.....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
So what your saying is no matter what he's somebody's bitch(your words not mine)? Wowzer!
 
Certainly, JAM, it's not fair to generalize here, for some of the top US players take this seriously. That said, I could write a book on the many indiscretions for which I've been present in and around American pro pool players that made American pool look bad. I also need to note that American pool players who behave badly are never called out by their fellow American pros, further evidencing that their fellow American pros just don't care enough about it.

Even restricting myself to the last few years and only events I've attended, and I'll leave the names out, we've seen: a) a top American in contention for Master of the Table at Derby City, and entering Saturday's nine ball play still undefeated, got drunk the night before and overslept his match for his first loss, and then failed to show for his next match, thereby compromising his chance at both the $16,000 first prize for the 9-ball event and the $20,000 prize for Master of the Table, b) an American refuse to shake an opponent's hand, for no discernible reason, after a Mosconi match despite being begged by coach Johan to do so, c) during the Derby City Bigfoot Ten Ball, an elite American player whose opponent was nearing the finish line uttered to his opponent "play me a long race and I'll turn you into a cab driver", and d) an elite American pro yelling at the crowd." At Steinway Billiards, I was once lashed into by an elite American player when I applauded for a shot made by his opponent that he didn't feel warranted applause. Even restricting myself to elite players, I could surely come up with many other examples. Unfortunately, in each case these infractions were by highly visible players in highly visible situations.

Some things make the present demonstrably different from the past:

1) Matchroom has increased its investment in pool and Emily Frazer's comments, reiterated in an article that appeared on AZB, that the lack of professionalism in American pool needs to be addressed if the pro pool product, over which they now have considerable control (as a result of their acquisition of both the US Open 9-ball and the WPA World 9-ball Championship) is to be optimally positioned from a marketing standpoint. Matchroom's appetite for continuing to increase its investment in pool will be greatly influenced by their perception of the attainability of that vision, and the behavior of American pros will figure in how they view things.

2) We live in the internet age. Billy's behavior would have gone unnoticed twenty five years ago. Now, matches are streamed and player behavior is more visible than ever and even when pros play unstreamed matches, they know they may be being taped on someone's phone. The internet has changed the world in which the pool player operates, and every pool player knows it.

3) As a regular Team USA member at the Mosconi, Billy Thorpe is now among the most visible American players worldwide, so his actions will have far more influence on how American pool is perceived worldwide than all but a few of his fellow American pros.

Yes, I do feel that Americans are inferior in their behavior to the Europe-based players, and this is not meant to suggest that there aren't European players that cross the line, too. I think a lot of the difference is attributable to the fact that the undeniably seedy action scene is the training ground for most top American players, and this is not so in Europe.

Unlike some others, I strongly believe that American pool can evolve past all this and don't feel that objectionable behavior is so deeply embedded in American pool culture that it's time wasted to try to improve it. Also unlike some others, I don't embrace the status quo.

Finally, it needs to be said that all I have is my own experience in making these judgements, and others may have had different experiences and can rightly see things differently. This is, undeniably, a matter of opinion, but I hope I've made mine clear.

Do you really believe Matchroom is actually going to make pro pool that big IN AMERICA? We are not Europe. I think they’ll be a colossal failure frankly. I’ll bet 5 to 1 Matchroom is a pipe dream as far as making pool hugely popular in America. American pool players do not think the same. We aren’t anything like the snooker fans. To me this idea is a complete joke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I missed this comment! Lots of merit to it! But, pool players are in the middle of a tug of war!

One side is the drug dealers and mafia with large resources looking to sponsor action and help a pool player make some money

Vs.

Matchroom / mosconi cup and living off of tournament winnings exclusively! Plus, some minor endorsement deals.


The rules in the two worlds are much different!

You are either matchrooms bit$h !

Or

You are the Mafia and drug dealers bit$h!

This is the problem! At least in American pool.....

Kd

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
This is accurate and has been from the beginning until at least the 2000s, at least in Philadelphia. On the rare occasion in the current times (pre covid) that a "big" money match happens today in Philly, there is usually drug or numbers money as part of the backing.
 
Stu I have a lot of respect for you. I don’t mean this to be a personal attack. But I gotta ask—why is it so shocking that many of us think this is a case of virtue signaling and overreaction over Thorpe’s actions? You’ve been around pool for longer than me and I’m getting close to 40 years in the game. In that time I’ve never once been to a pool room where such behavior wasn’t the norm. I’ve personally put men in the hospital, drew my gun on others, (hell I almost shot the newspaper delivery guy because he drove up on me at about 60 in the parking lot and I thought I was being robbed). I’ve seen drugs EVERY SINGLE TIME I’ve been to a pool room. Fights are an almost daily occurrence. The language used by Thorpe was normal. I’m not saying this stuff is right, merely that it is the norm. And anyone honest will admit that. I’m saying that this is American pool and IT WILL NEVER CHANGE as long as testosterone and booze and gambling continue to mix in so-called “billiard parlors”. Personally I find myself right at home with it. I’ll likely get shot some day, I admit, but I feel right at home with the environment and if it goes away I think we are losing one of the last vestiges of true historic masculinity in America. You do realize that what we think of as civilized male behavior these days is not the norm in history right? Persia, Greece, Rome etc et al. What Billy did was kid behavior back then. Trust me I’ve got 10 years of higher education that backs me up. Maybe if we weren’t so castrated these days and so prone to faux outrage we’d see this like I do: humorous. Thorpe acted like an ass. Saez probably did too. Nobody got hurt. Nobody got killed. Nobody even got arrested. I don’t think any property got damaged. Compared with the BLM/Antifa bunch these guys were angels and those rioting nutjobs are called heroes by our “woke culture”. If the folks in the pool community want to keep going down the same path of virtue signaling outrage they’re going to get exactly what they’re asking for. Unfortunately it’s going to entail the disappearance of the pool room from this country. The idea that this will hurt pro pool’s popularity seems ridiculous to me. The major sports have much worse behavior. But it’s the “woke” attitude that’s killing their ratings not the bad behavior. The things I’ve seen from pros since the 80s make this seem trivial. My mentor, a well known and loved pro (rest his soul) used to give me qaludes when I was a teen for Pete’s sake. He used to joke about popping different color pills and “waiting for the glow”. He had some tantrums that make Thorpe seem tame. And he’s still one of the most beloved players in history. I bet if I named him I’d get crucified for sullying his name. But all of a sudden Thorpe gets drunk and acts like an ass and folks are calling for him to be banned from Mosconi, his cue sponsor canceled him and if these folks have their way another top player is gone from the American scene. Yeah that’s going to do wonders for American pro pool. 🤦‍♂️
Normally I assume when people read 'American' they default to residents of the USA. However, what is written in the quoted post begs for specifics, and I just want to say that the above is not normal in Canadian pool rooms and/or parking lots. ...and yes I'm being completely honest.
 
Normally I assume when people read 'American' they default to residents of the USA. However, what is written in the quoted post begs for specifics, and I just want to say that the above is not normal in Canadian pool rooms and/or parking lots. ...and yes I'm being completely honest.

Yes I meant USA. Had I said North American I can see where the confusion lies. I didn’t. Americans are usually called Americans. Canadians aren’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top