Niels Feijen's approach to aiming with and without side spin

JB Cases

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Silver Member
Perhaps to the haphazard way you might have been aiming. One more CTE thing I find bothersome is as far as I can tell it requires cinching every shot in a very constricting way. There seems to be very little leeway for independent speed, and shot precision ie. the various ratios of shot dynamics that would come up during the course of a game. Correct?
Well if one had been aiming "haphazardly" then it's a good bet that any structured method would be an improvement.

However, of one had been aiming using gb for example and they were quite clear about which shots they were inconsistent on and then they tried cte or some other method and saw immediate and significant improvement then it's a good bet that the method is the reason they were able to realize that improvement.
 

JB Cases

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I don´t wanna bash anything but how did Neils help people aim? IMO he said "suck it up and practice" Even his ghost ball tip was not accurate. You have to compensate for collision included throw. Other videos his channel are mostly really good.
I liked his approach when not use english but those are obvious to anyone who played pool little more than beginner.
This was my thought. It was at the end just really a bash against aiming systems. Reminiscent of the bashing against jump cues.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't find that to be the case. All of the speed and spin and stroke techniques are still available and valid. If you can describe some specific situations where you think cte is detrimental then I can take them to the table and see how much effort is required to achieve the results you describe.
I speak only of the videos where the set shots only match the spiel when cinched as such. I have not had occasion to be telepathically linked to a practitioner going flawlessly for hours on end in real sessions so I can't speak to that.
 

JB Cases

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Silver Member
The clip seems to be directed at the novice player. For all it's flaws, ghostball will get a novice shooting the cue ball on a straight line.
Um hitting the cueball gets it moving on a straight line. Newton's first law. For the purpose of learning to shoot the cue ball to a target on straight line and back the center table line drill is standard.
 

JB Cases

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I speak only of the videos where the set shots only match the spiel when cinched as such. I have not had occasion to be telepathically linked to a practitioner going flawlessly for hours on end in real sessions so I can't speak to that.
Well what about the videos where the shooters are running racks and calling out the visuals? Do they count?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well if one had been aiming "haphazardly" then it's a good bet that any structured method would be an improvement.

However, of one had been aiming using gb for example and they were quite clear about which shots they were inconsistent on and then they tried cte or some other method and saw immediate and significant improvement then it's a good bet that the method is the reason they were able to realize that improvement.
I don't consider ghost ball anything but a perception; to coin your word. Like I said earlier someplace, it will get a novice shooting along the correct pocketing line or something, better than anything else. It's the ultimate aiming convenience.
OF COURSE triangulating you cue window with CTE can be more precise. It provides a finer lattice to with which to locate the shot elements. By the same token it's called ProOne, not NoobOne and novices should steer clear until Can Take Eons spawns an entry level version.
 

JB Cases

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Haven't seen these but I mean real sessions where what comes up is seldom a ball in hand laugher.
Then watch landon shuffet against Strickland, Tyler in the Kremlin cup, and other high level matches. Watch Brian Parks, Matt Krah and other high level players who use CTE.
 

JB Cases

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Silver Member
I don't consider ghost ball anything but a perception; to coin your word. Like I said earlier someplace, it will get a novice shooting along the correct pocketing line or something, better than anything else. It's the ultimate aiming convenience.
OF COURSE triangulating you cue window with CTE can be more precise. It provides a finer lattice to with which to locate the shot elements. By the same token it's called ProOne, not NoobOne and novices should steer clear until Can Take Eons spawns an entry level version.
Pro one is a version of cte. We teach cte to beginners successfully.
 

JB Cases

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Yeah but do they learn any pool? Will they ever?
Yes they do. Would you like to come to OKC and pick a raw beginner for us to teach and give some benchmarks and bet on whether that player achieves them? Your comment is simply mean for not any other reason than to be mean.

Do you think that we don't care about helping players get better? Or worse that we are deliberately holding them back?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Then watch landon shuffet against Strickland, Tyler in the Kremlin cup, and other high level matches. Watch Brian Parks, Matt Krah and other high level players who use CTE.
I attribute Tyler's pool to height and lanky frame. Like Archer. Effortless delivery over a wider range than the average midget. I don't shoot CTE so I couldn't detect any telltale pocketing or positional idiosyncrasies. Looks like regular pool to me. You can make the obvious claims about that.
 

JC

Coos Cues
I don't find that to be the case. All of the speed and spin and stroke techniques are still available and valid. If you can describe some specific situations where you think cte is detrimental then I can take them to the table and see how much effort is required to achieve the results you describe.
That was something I wondered also if your approach to controlling the cue ball needs to evolve with your aiming?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes they do. Would you like to come to OKC and pick a raw beginner for us to teach and give some benchmarks and bet on whether that player achieves them? Your comment is simply mean for not any other reason than to be mean.

Do you think that we don't care about helping players get better? Or worse that we are deliberately holding them back?
I mean pool like the old masters would know it. By the promotion, the obvious impression is that you learn to cinch common shots. I think there is a real difference between backwards engineering a pool shot rather than actually figuring/reasoning out pool shots.
 

JB Cases

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Silver Member
I mean pool like the old masters would know it. By the promotion, the obvious impression is that you learn to cinch common shots. I think there is a real difference between backwards engineering a pool shot rather than actually figuring/reasoning out pool shots.
I understand but why assume that a system stops people from figuring out what they need to do on the shot?

Any method that is clearly limiting would be abandoned by any serious player.

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a player who has a way to confidently zero in on an accurate shot line could adjust consciously from that position to do whatever they need to do that is actually possible assuming they know how to do that? Why wouldn't a serious student of the game be working out all possibilities?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I understand but why assume that a system stops people from figuring out what they need to do on the shot?

Any method that is clearly limiting would be abandoned by any serious player.

Isn't it more reasonable to assume that a player who has a way to confidently zero in on an accurate shot line could adjust consciously from that position to do whatever they need to do that is actually possible assuming they know how to do that? Why wouldn't a serious student of the game be working out all possibilities?
Yeah but a player that doesn't already know pool will learn only what cte tells him to do. Far better to learn what pool is and does first.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I attribute Tyler's pool to height and lanky frame. Like Archer. Effortless delivery over a wider range than the average midget. I don't shoot CTE so I couldn't detect any telltale pocketing or positional idiosyncrasies. Looks like regular pool to me. You can make the obvious claims about that.
Ahhhhhh there is the key to shooting great pool.
Gotta' be tall and lanky. WE ARE SAVED.....!!! hoorah.
*Note to self: **send email to Bustamante, Parica, The Lion, Robocop, and Mosconi in Pool Heaven, that their games are doomed unless they grow another foot and lose some weight.
Judge Judy .gif#2.gif
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
no this is NOT Niels' thread. This is a thread in the aiming forum where a poster posted a link to a video about aiming. Yes, ghost ball templates are very good tools for learning how to aim.
I wondered if anybody other than me noticed that.
Good catch...(y)(y)
 

JB Cases

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Silver Member
That was something I wondered also if your approach to controlling the cue ball needs to evolve with your aiming?
Yes and no. Yes because the acquisition of the accurate shot line introduces the issue of throwing the cue ball of that line. Also learning to shoot pure without steering (that was caused by being aimed incorrectly) also changes how one looks at position. For me my cueball control improved because I could see more clearly where the real tangent line is which followed being on the correct shot line. For shots where I wanted/needed to use spin either backhand English or adjusted aim works and those have gotten easier to consciously apply.

About a year and a half ago I also figured out how to throw the object ball in on purpose without guessing. The main reason for this is to be able to play position by hitting the object ball full. I figured this out based on a video by Dr. Dave. That method has nothing to do with cte and is for another discussion. What Earl calls the little spins.
 
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