A reality check on aiming systems of all kinds

JC

Coos Cues
Looks pretty damn close to Corey's shot, about as exact as can get.
The five and the nine may be a little bit forward but the shot itself is about right. If I would have brought in the curtains like I should have no one would be able to tell for sure.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sorry but you make no sense. Doesn't matter what you think the point is that he got out without any fidgeting.

The point that was made is that cte users have fidgety movement when down on the ball. The videos I posted contradict that assertion.

We are fully clear that just because a person shoots straight out it doesn't prove that anything we say about an aiming system is true.

Just as nothing anecdotal you report proves anything you claim. But what performance videos do show is that a person claims to use a particular method and demonstrates task proficiency. This is added to the body of information that others can use to determine whether that method is interesting enough to learn.

If a guy says I can clear a bar higher than anyone else but only with an unorthodox technique then others will say show us. When he demonstrates that he can in fact do it then it will prompt others to try and learn that technique. Eventually the technique will need improved upon by others.

That's the point of demos.

You clearly think that you are the intelligent one between us. I have no doubt that you know more than me on a variety of subjects. But not on this subject. On this subject the task is clear, find the shot line. And for that task center to edge aiming is very precise and objective. Alongside cte are several other methods that are objective and way way better than ghost ball.

The test is whether a player sees measurable improvement after adopting a new technique. Not whether that technique can be programmed into a pool shooting algorithm.
I need not prove any of my claims. They are distilled fact and free for the learning. Seems I must reiterate that the guy in the first video is slamming the shots in as if this is a measure of anything relevant. I am presuming he hits hard to avoid the effects of the induced throws and spins hence, Cinch To Ensure.
I don't look down on people - not even suckers :oops:. That I find your judgement faulty shouldn't indicate to anyone (okay, except jocks) that I consider myself more intelligent. Just correct.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
The idea that we can arrive at the same impact position as CTE or any system or method that gets us there, and that we are somehow wrong, reminds me of the comment by Stephen Wright “If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?”
Who has promoted that idea? I will give you $10 for EVERY SINGLE DIRECT QUOTE link to that says this prior to this post if an aiming system instructor, user or cheerleader like me has said it.

I can tell you with 100000000000000000000% certainty that I have never said it or anything anywhere close to that.
John...: Way back somewhere in this thread, you claimed that I and Neils were wrong about the use of the GB. I later then pointed out (after one of your demo vids) that your CTE method eventually got you to the GB shot line.

So that's two methods, that get you to the same point. You say one (GB) is wrong, and I'm forced to assume based on your promotion of it (CTE) is right.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Surprisingly we have two cameras, we call eyes, but only one picture in mind, not two. That fact, lays the foundation for the reality that our inner perception, is a cognitive construction. As Lou succinctly it, we create our own personal reality. The trick is to work with what we’ve got. I use my cue as an extension of myself to reach out and touch things in a predictable way. I also use its rounded surface as an alignment test. Seeing equal amounts of both sides, when viewed from above, has been a criteria for centeredness in my composite reality tunnel. But as Lou reminds us, the idea that we share an identical composite image, is just wishful thinking. Our descriptions, in words, are just encoded attempts to narrate our perceived experiences in a close approximation, a representation of that world. All this is imagineering, projecting remembrances during an interpretation process, seeking understanding. As far as extracting a shared reality, best case is, close but no cigar.

Yes!

I especially like what you say about using the cue as an extension of yourself. That's the way I think of it. If you manipulate your cue properly, aligning it accurately and putting your body parts in the right place, it becomes an extension of your arm and hand. So that, when you shoot, it's not any different than poking a ball with your finger, but or course with more force.

With that accomplished one doesn't really have to think about aiming and go through a torturous process. It becomes very natural.

Lou Figueroa
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Really? Not even worth saying bet.

The cb and the 4 ball are pretty much exact for the shot. The 5 and 9 might be a couple of inches off, but that doesn't change the shot.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
John...: Way back somewhere in this thread, you claimed that I and Neils were wrong about the use of the GB. I later then pointed out (after one of your demo vids) that your CTE method eventually got you to the GB shot line.

So that's two methods, that get you to the same point. You say one (GB) is wrong, and I'm forced to assume based on your promotion of it (CTE) is right.
Any claim that gb is the equivalent of cte, i.e. 'Niels says gb is great so must be enough' type of sentiments that are making that false equivalency.

I didn't say that gb is wrong I said it is feel/imagination based. I believe I said that the description of how to use gb is wrong.

What you assume is up to you. I would definitely stick to what I said because I pretty much always tell you exactly what I think.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
The cb and the 4 ball are pretty much exact for the shot. The 5 and 9 might be a couple of inches off, but that doesn't change the shot.
Of course it changes the shot. The area to get short-side shape in is much bigger.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Of course it changes the shot. The area to get short-side shape in is much bigger.

I see where the 5 and 9 should be about half a diamond closer to the end rail. It's not a drastic difference as far as playing shape to that 5.

The thing is, for Corey, nailing that shot with extreme low, instead of using inside english, was the shot he favored. You seldom see a pro player drilling a full table shot with a lot of inside english on new cloth.
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
The five and the nine may be a little bit forward but the shot itself is about right. If I would have brought in the curtains like I should have no one would be able to tell for sure.
Surprisingly enough, I'm going to have to side with John on this one. That 5 is well over double the distance from the back rail. The first shot you hit would not have given you a decent look at potting the 5 if it were in the same location as Cory's situation. You certainly could have hit it, and possibly potted it, but your odds were slim at best. The second shot you attempted definitely would have given you the 5.

Edit: After additional review, I'm going to have to change my thoughts somewhat. That 5 ball in JC's set up was at least 3x further off the rail then Cory's
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I see where the 5 and 9 should be about half a diamond closer to the end rail. It's not a drastic difference as far as playing shape to that 5.
You kidding right...? Short side shape...?..., not a drastic difference..? It goes from an easily potable ball to a prayer at best.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Surprisingly enough, I'm going to have to side with John on this one. That 5 is well over double the distance from the back rail. The first shot you hit would not have given you a decent look at potting the 5 if it were in the same location as Cory's situation. You certainly could have hit it, and possibly potted it, but your odds were slim at best. The second shot you attempted definitely would have given you the 5.

Edit: After additional review, I'm going to have to change my thoughts somewhat. That 5 ball in JC's set up was at least 3x further off the rail then Cory's
Well alrighty then. I was playing the five short so I would have an angle to get up table on the seven without running into the 9. Had I set it up properly I may have just hit it a little bit harder. Or maybe not. It's hard to predict what I'm apt to do sometimes.

Cory's stroke was magnificent but my point was it was not necessary. He could easily have shot the shots I did if he hung with CJ a little bit more.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Cory's stroke was magnificent but my point was it was not necessary. He could easily have shot the shots I did if he hung with CJ a little bit more.
Oh I completely agree.... Not that I have the option of utilizing Cory's stroke, but if placed in that position I definitely would have gone the way you did with the second attempt. In orders of magnitude easier imo.

If no one had ever seen Corey's flier prior, and you set that shot up at the Derby as a demo/test, nearly all pros would go follow/inside
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I need not prove any of my claims. They are distilled fact and free for the learning. Seems I must reiterate that the guy in the first video is slamming the shots in as if this is a measure of anything relevant. I am presuming he hits hard to avoid the effects of the induced throws and spins hence, Cinch To Ensure.
I don't look down on people - not even suckers :oops:. That I find your judgement faulty shouldn't indicate to anyone (okay, except jocks) that I consider myself more intelligent. Just correct.
Your presumption is not relevant. The claim is the cte users all fidget. That is easily disproven. What a man's thoughts are is beyond your ability to discern from this video.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Well alrighty then. I was playing the five short so I would have an angle to get up table on the seven without running into the 9. Had I set it up properly I may have just hit it a little bit harder. Or maybe not. It's hard to predict what I'm apt to do sometimes.

Cory's stroke was magnificent but my point was it was not necessary. He could easily have shot the shots I did if he hung with CJ a little bit more.
Ok.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your presumption is not relevant. The claim is the cte users all fidget. That is easily disproven. What a man's thoughts are is beyond your ability to discern from this video.
Not pertinent to the claim which I don't get anyway, I suppose. Like the banger in the first video - I saw no fidgeting, just seamless banging.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
You kidding right...? Short side shape...?..., not a drastic difference..? It goes from an easily potable ball to a prayer at best.

Not many players would attempt shape on the short side of that 5 anyway, with the original setup or JC's setup. So...no, I don't think it's a drastic difference at all. In fact, having the 5 closer to the rail makes it easier to get shape without getting upside down.

Short side is a risky option in either setup, that's why I said it doesn't change the shot. You either load the cb up with straight draw like Corey did, or you load it up with top right (outside) and come 2 rails back up table, or you drill it with a ton of top left (inside) and come one rail back up table and hope you don't scratch. All three are tough options from that distance.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your presumption is not relevant. The claim is the cte users all fidget. That is easily disproven. What a man's thoughts are is beyond your ability to discern from this video.
Ok to address the fidgeting, the whole method seems to be about futzing with your alignment so you look automatic when shooting. As far as that guy's thoughts, the balls don't lie. Errant contact, banked a ball, every shot got slammed. The balls don't lie.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Oh I completely agree.... Not that I have the option of utilizing Cory's stroke, but if placed in that position I definitely would have gone the way you did with the second attempt. In orders of magnitude easier imo.

If no one had ever seen Corey's flier prior, and you set that shot up at the Derby as a demo/test, nearly all pros would go follow/inside

That type of draw action on new cloth is a lot easier than it is on older, worn cloth. A lot of sliding taking place.
 
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