Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

[gerryf]

Danny, I just saw that John Schmidt is the Keynote Speaker at the BEF Junior National Pool Championships!! That's in Vegas at the end of July.

You should attend that. You don't look like a 12-year old, but you do act like it., so a Junior Championship is appropriate.

 

[logical]

Playing something a 2x speed is not editing, chopping or faking.

If you play a 45 rpm single record at 78 rpm you haven't changed the record.




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[lfigueroa]

Why do you say nobody saw the whole JS run? The documents for Schmidt are the same as for Mosconi -- a certification signed by the witnesses (37 for Mosconi, 8 for Schmidt) and an affidavit, referring to the certification, signed a few days later by one of the witnesses and a notary public. In both cases, the certification says that the signees "witnessed" the run. We do not know for sure whether any of those people saw every shot of the run. So the situation is the same for both runs, although a lot more people "witnessed" the Mosconi run.

Of course they saw the whole run.

Not only does the affidavit say so (it doesn't say, "witnessed some of the run"), It was Willie freakin' Mosconi playing 14.1 for two hours at the crowd's urging setting a world record. It was a room full of pool fans watching the greatest straight pool player of all time. Think golf fans getting the chance to see Arnold Palmer up close on the driving range or baseball fans having the chance to stand behind the cage and see Joe DiMaggio taking batting practice.

It wasn't like going to the movies nowadays when people can't sit through a 90 minute film without running out to get cheese nachos. It was a different era and even in the 60's when I saw Mosconi once a year four times, believe me, if you were there to see him, you didn't want to miss anything. It was mesmerizing.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Playing something a 2x speed is not editing, chopping or faking.

If you play a 45 rpm single record at 78 rpm you haven't changed the record.




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If you play a 45 at 78 it's much harder to pick out any mistakes, if there are any.

Play a 45 at 90 (2x), harder still ;-)

Lou Figueroa

 

[easy-e]

I'm an interested observer only here, but I had to comment on this. I don't see anything wrong with how a young DH carried himself in that incident. In fact, the announcers did nothing but heap praise on how well-mannered and polite he was. On a side note, DH was playing pretty strong from what bit I watched.

He played great. And you're right, he did show a little frustration and then took his seat. Well done.

My comment will probably make more sense to someone who has seen any serial killer documentaries.

 

[easy-e]

Danny, I just saw that John Schmidt is the Keynote Speaker at the BEF Junior National Pool Championships!! That's in Vegas at the end of July.

You should attend that. You don't look like a 12-year old, but you do act like it., so a Junior Championship is appropriate.

Not sure he's allowed to be around that specific demographic (pool players).

 

[Black-Balled]

Danny, I just saw that John Schmidt is the Keynote Speaker at the BEF Junior National Pool Championships!! That's in Vegas at the end of July.

You should attend that. You don't look like a 12-year old, but you do act like it., so a Junior Championship is appropriate.

Haha...there might be laws preventing his presence at such gatherings.

 

[Black-Balled]

Not sure he's allowed to be around that specific demographic (pool players).

Stop copying me.

 

[gerryf]

If you play a 45 at 78 it's much harder to pick out any mistakes, if there are any.

Play a 45 at 90 (2x), harder still ;-)

Lou Figueroa

Clearly, you should try it.

Play a Youtube video of a match. Click on the youtube player's settings wheel, and change the playback speed to 2. It's pretty clear that you can still see everything going on, and it's not at all hard to pick out misses or other mistakes.

I have friends that routinely watch pool matches at 2x speed.

 

[Black-Balled]

Of course they saw the whole run.

Not only does the affidavit say so (it doesn't say, "witnessed some of the run"), It was Willie freakin' Mosconi playing 14.1 for two hours at the crowd's urging setting a world record. It was a room full of pool fans watching the greatest straight pool player of all time. Think golf fans getting the chance to see Arnold Palmer up close on the driving range or baseball fans having the chance to stand behind the cage and see Joe DiMaggio taking batting practice.

It wasn't like going to the movies nowadays when people can't sit through a 90 minute film without running out to get cheese nachos. It was a different era and even in the 60's when I saw Mosconi once a year four times, believe me, if you were there to see him, you didn't want to miss anything. It was mesmerizing.

Lou Figueroa

That's a lot of convenient and unverifiable claims.

 

[gerryf]

Of course they saw the whole run.

Not only does the affidavit say so (it doesn't say, "witnessed some of the run"), It was Willie freakin' Mosconi playing 14.1 for two hours at the crowd's urging setting a world record. It was a room full of pool fans watching the greatest straight pool player of all time. Think golf fans getting the chance to see Arnold Palmer up close on the driving range or baseball fans having the chance to stand behind the cage and see Joe DiMaggio taking batting practice.

It wasn't like going to the movies nowadays when people can't sit through a 90 minute film without running out to get cheese nachos. It was a different era and even in the 60's when I saw Mosconi once a year four times, believe me, if you were there to see him, you didn't want to miss anything. It was mesmerizing.

Lou Figueroa

Does the affidavit say no one went to the bathroom, no one went out for a smoke, no one went to get a drink?

The only word used in the affidavit is 'witnessed' a 526 ball run. I witnessed John Morra beating SVB at 9-ball, but i wouldn't say that I was totally focused on every shot, and was probably looking away for one or more.

I don't think it matters much. Mosconi ran 526 balls to the satisfaction of the BCA, and they based their assessment on the 'witness' statement. John Schmidt ran 626 balls to the satisfaction of the BCA, and they based their assessment on the 'witness' statement as well as a continuous video.

Mosconi's run was a great event. John Schmidt's run was a great event.

 

[lfigueroa]

Clearly, you should try it.

Play a Youtube video of a match. Click on the youtube player's settings wheel, and change the playback speed to 2. It's pretty clear that you can still see everything going on, and it's not at all hard to pick out misses or other mistakes.

I have friends that routinely watch pool matches at 2x speed.

While you may be able to see the shots at 2x it would be near impossible to tell if there were any fouls or whether something had been edited.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

That's a lot of convenient and unverifiable claims.

The affidavit speaks for itself regardless of what additional explanatory thoughts I’ve shared.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Does the affidavit say no one went to the bathroom, no one went out for a smoke, no one went to get a drink?

The only word used in the affidavit is 'witnessed' a 526 ball run. I witnessed John Morra beating SVB at 9-ball, but i wouldn't say that I was totally focused on every shot, and was probably looking away for one or more.

I don't think it matters much. Mosconi ran 526 balls to the satisfaction of the BCA, and they based their assessment on the 'witness' statement. John Schmidt ran 626 balls to the satisfaction of the BCA, and they based their assessment on the 'witness' statement as well as a continuous video.

Mosconi's run was a great event. John Schmidt's run was a great event.

The affidavit speaks for itself.

I’d say it would be up to you to prove otherwise.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Black-Balled]

The affidavit speaks for itself regardless of what additional explanatory thoughts I’ve shared.

Lou Figueroa

And you don't see any hypocrisy in perceived legitimacy of one and not of the other?

 

[Cuedup]

Affidavit = Affidavit

They stand equivalent and JS has video to boot.

 

[lfigueroa]

And you don't see any hypocrisy in perceived legitimacy of one and not of the other?

One or the other what?

Look, you want to believe that JS had a clean run and set a new record? I say great, mazetov. But for some of us, the way it rolled out, there is room for doubt and we prefer not to come to a final conclusion. And in all likelihood, there's never going to be any true resolution on this for many of us because it's likely that after all this time, unedited video will never be released. The fact that video documentation exists and has not be made widely available for review is cause in and of itself to question the run, IMO.

And before some duffs comes out of the woodwork saying Mosconi's run wasn't videotaped -- it just was doable back in the 50's. Even if it was, Mosconi didn't plan on doing it that night, it was a one off done spur of the moment.

So you believe -- great, have a nice day.
I don't know -- I'm going to have a nice day too.

Lou Figueroa

 

[gerryf]

The affidavit speaks for itself.

I’d say it would be up to you to prove otherwise.

Lou Figueroa

Yeah I agree that the affidavit speaks for itself.

It's not really much of a legal document is it? All the notary public is certifying is that he witnessed one person sign the second page. He's not certifying that any of the words in the statement are true.

You don't need to have watched much TV to know that if it were a legal issue, a lawyer could attack that statement from a number of angles.

But again, i don't think it matters. This was a minor sports record, and the BCA was happy to accept the statement, and establish a new BCA record for 14.1 high runs.

 

[lfigueroa]

Affidavit = Affidavit

They stand equivalent and JS has video to boot.

If you want to believe, great.

I choose to have an open mind on this.

Lou Figueroa

 

[gerryf]

While you may be able to see the shots at 2x it would be near impossible to tell if there were any fouls or whether something had been edited.

Lou Figueroa

As i suggested before, you really should try it on a Youtube video. I can certainly watch a 14.1 match at 2x speed without any difficulty, and without any loss of information.

When you get to see Schmidt's video, you can go into those same settings and change it to 0.5x, and see it at the original pace.

This double-speed viewing of a bunch of shots in the 400-500 range is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

But if you don't try it for yourself .....