Does a Firmer Grip Maximize or Diminish Feel and Touch for the Cueball?

[CJ Wiley]

Short answer "No."

I believe firm grip is even better than light grip, I don't care for filippino's style that much, but most of successful players are firm or even tight grip, CJ Wiley yourself used to be a firm grip if not tight as seen in the 90's videos. and it worked nicely for you.

Yes, I always thought my grip contributed to the ability to Stun, or Kill the cueball more than the players using loose grips.
When I was in my early 20s I bought one of those rubber roll down grips and wore it out in less than 3 weeks from my grip pressure. Hand strength is important in many player's games, I have always wondered whether that kept women from playing the speed of men......their hands aren't as strong.

Food for thought.

The Game is the Teacher

 

[Bavafongoul]

A firm grip changes the way your muscle and tendons feel & your stroke is as much about tactile feel as anything.
It always comes down to personal choice but IMO, a really firm grip, which is a subjective term, hinders your stroke.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I think pool is all about feel, you watch 10
players, and you’d be lucky to see two players holding, standing exactly the same.

Yes, the shape of the arm, wrist, and forearm makes a big difference visually......What I see in all players that don't have a powerful stroke is an incorrect wrist action, they actually do it backwards from what is most effective. I understand why and have helped many players solve their issues, once they have the correct mental image in their mind of what the mechanics of a great stroke is, it's a literal Game Changer!

The human mind is incredible, however, unless it's trained we won't see things very well upside down (like the pool stroke), for instance, we can recognize a friend in a picture immediately, but if we turn the photo upside down we can't!

The Game is the Teacher

 

[Straightpool_99]

I've played pool both ways. They both have merit.

The firm grip did feel more safe and secure and I felt like I had more control over the exact point at which the cue struck the cueball. On the other hand, I struggled a bit with stroke smoothness, especially in the back to forward transition. I found myself jerking my stroke more often, bypassing position marks more than I'd like. When shooting really tough shots under big pressure, I felt the firm grip gave a lot of confidence.

I started playing more snooker and I had to make a change, because my speed control was a bit off on the long rolling shots. I changed back to an orthodox grip which was much looser than the previous grip. My snooker results improved and my pool results seemed to get worse. I think my speed control is better at a wider range than with the death grip. On the other hand some pressure shots seem more difficult and wobbly, though the results are not as different, the feel is much different. I think, on the whole my accuracy may be better with a looser grip, I make many tough long shots with regularity and my breaks seem to be better. But when the big pressure shot, which may not be as objectively difficult, comes up, I feel a lot less secure. If I played only pool, I'd have to think long and hard about the grip, because I think I may be a more stable player with the firm grip. Since I also play other cue games, I'm better served by the softer grip, so I don't think I'm going back.

 

[HawaiianEye]

...for instance, we can recognize a friend in a picture immediately, but if we turn the photo upside down we can't!

If it is a picture of a naked female friend you may be able to.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

The grip’s firmness has little or no effect on the transfer of energy to the cue ball - throwing the cue at the cue ball would transfer about the same amount as a death grip at the same speed. This is because your hand’s soft skin “gives” during impact, effectively “decoupling” the hand and arm from the collision dynamics.

The best thing your grip pressure can do for the shot is not change (clench) midstroke, pulling your stroke offline.

pj
chgo

While you can certainly execute the same or similar leave of the cue ball with different grip pressures, it is MUCH easier to move the cue ball around with a really light grip pressure. The reason for this I think is something like a really firm grip tends to stun the cue ball off of the object ball, while a really light grip seems to get the cue ball rolling forward easier after contacting the object ball. While I admit my reasoning for WHY might be off base, I am certain that with a firm grip the cue ball dies much faster after contacting an object ball. In other words, to get the same leave distance, you would need to hit the cue ball much harder -- and as we know, you want to hit the cue ball ONLY as hard as you need to, to both make the object ball and to move the cue ball into position for the next shot to improve your pocketing percentage.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Play pool seriously for a long time and you will know what works BEST for YOU.

All this talk about everybody “feeling” the same thing while striking a cue ball is nonsense. Everybody has a different sense of feel, even if they are holding the cue the same way.

If it WORKS for YOU, that is the BEST way.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...a really firm grip tends to stun the cue ball off of the object ball, while a really light grip seems to get the cue ball rolling forward easier after contacting the object ball. ... I am certain that with a firm grip the cue ball dies much faster after contacting an object ball.

Grip pressure has no direct effect on what the cue ball does before or after hitting the cue ball - you can get either effect with both grips by hitting the same point of impact on the CB at the same speed. If the results change with your grip then your grip must change one or both of those things.

pj
chgo

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Grip pressure has no direct effect on what the cue ball does before or after hitting the cue ball - you can get either effect with both grips by hitting the same point of impact on the CB at the same speed. If the results change with your grip then your grip must change one or both of those things.

pj
chgo

I know that you believe that. But you are missing something. All you need to do is to shoot the same shot with a really light grip and with a death grip with the same arm speed and you will find that with the death grip, the cue ball will die much sooner.

I know that this even more pronounced with certain types of shots. I've shot for days with a tight grip and then switched to a lighter grip because I had to hit many shots way harder and needed to stun the cue ball to execute the same leave.

EDIT: I think that the best way to describe what I'm talking about is that you get more action on the cue ball with a lighter grip. So saying that grip pressure has no direct effect, while probably technically true, it doesn't add any value to the discussion to focus on that technicality. Whether is has a "direct" effect or an "indirect" effect, it still changes the action on the cue ball.

 

[middleofnowhere]

I would say I intentionally avoid clenching. Also I don’t want to be so loose that I’m not giving the shot my absolute intention and effort. But ultimately it’s at a level where everything is stable but relaxed. Ideally it is something that never enters my conscious mind. It’s a thing I can trust and focus elsewhere.

Kind of like being in a long-aggressive ride with any handlebar vehicle. I don’t want to be so tense that I get cramps early on. I don’t want to be so loose that I might crash from unexpected adversity.

Yes, the shape of the arm, wrist, and forearm makes a big difference visually......What I see in all players that don't have a powerful stroke is an incorrect wrist action, they actually do it backwards from what is most effective. I understand why and have helped many players solve their issues, once they have the correct mental image in their mind of what the mechanics of a great stroke is, it's a literal Game Changer!

The human mind is incredible, however, unless it's trained we won't see things very well upside down (like the pool stroke), for instance, we can recognize a friend in a picture immediately, but if we turn the photo upside down we can't!

The Game is the Teacher

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I know that you believe that.

I didn't make it up. I learned it from people like Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, Mike Page, Freddie Agnir (Cornerman), Ron Shepard, who are pool enthusiasts and also degreed scientists (some are science professors) who study this stuff.

It also just makes simple sense.

pj <- don't shoot the messenger
chgo

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I didn't make it up. I learned it from people like Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, Mike Page, Freddie Agnir (Cornerman), Ron Shepard, who are pool enthusiasts and also degreed scientists (some are science professors) who study this stuff.

It also just makes simple sense.

pj <- don't shoot the messenger
chgo

I'm not shooting anyone. But pointing out that all that matters is the tip hitting the cue ball is fine, but it doesn't help. If someone can get more action on the cue ball with a lighter grip, and move the cue ball around the table more effortlessly, then that is what answers the question of what effect grip tightness has on the game.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Play pool seriously for a long time and you will know what works BEST for YOU.

All this talk about everybody “feeling” the same thing while striking a cue ball is nonsense. Everybody has a different sense of feel, even if they are holding the cue the same way.

If it WORKS for YOU, that is the BEST way.

:Yes, the grip matches a player's personality.

I always wondered about Francisco Bustemante that appears to have a very loose grip, but what about at impact?!? I ask him at the Scotty Townsend tournament a year ago what he feels at impact and Busty said he is firm at impact, which makes sense!

Aggressive players will naturally have a stronger grip and wimpy players will naturally have a weak, loose grip. It's not bad to be "wimpy" they used to call Luther Lassiter "Wimpy" but that may have been more about his love for hamburgers. LoL

 

[gerryf]

:Yes, the grip matches a player's personality.

I always wondered about Francisco Bustemante that appears to have a very loose grip, but what about at impact?!? I ask him at the Scotty Townsend tournament a year ago what he feels at impact and Busty said he is firm at impact, which makes sense!

Aggressive players will naturally have a stronger grip and wimpy players will naturally have a weak, loose grip. It's not bad to be "wimpy" they used to call Luther Lassiter "Wimpy" but that may have been more about his love for hamburgers. LoL

On Youtube somewhere, there's close-up video of Bustamente's hand during a break shot, and it's remarkable how loose it is before, during, and after impacting the cue ball.

Here's one video in slow motion, but it's not a close-up.

 

[Island Drive]

As important as the grip, is the grip surface.
I had a brand new Kirschenbrock for a couple yrs, sold it, no wrap my hands sweat and I slipped on a simple draw shot and got 1/2 the amount I needed, I would of been in the final 8 in this pro event Ugh.
With my new 78 Zamboti, I tried leather, and let me tell you, there are MANY different types of leather with the tackiness quite different.
I sold it because I could never get the tack/grip warmed up unless I played for hours or if the room was Warm.
In match play, when I was not at the table....I'd would lay the cue in my lap and hold the grip area to keep it warm.
If it wasn't for that sheen/leather wrap I might of kept that cue.
I then talked to Varner about wraps, he told me to get linen.
It's ability to adjust to conditions was real, and if I needed more tack, I would rub in some paraffin and then bleed it in with a hair dryer, this would create the grip feel I needed, and it never slipped.
What's sad about Video production of match play is this.
If you watch Golf, they are always analyzing the swing, stance, footwork etc.

I've NEVER SEEN A BILLIARD PRODUCTION THAT DOES THIS AT ALL DURING THE SHOOT.
THEY ARE MISSING THE BOAT ON THIS, MAKES THE SHOW WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BETTER.
ESPECIALLY WHEN A PRO MISSES A SHOT, THEY DON'T MISS....SHOT ANALYSIS HERE WOULD BE SWEET.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... pointing out that all that matters is the tip hitting the cue ball is fine, but it doesn't help.

It doesn’t help if you refuse to consider it. Knowing why and how things happen gives you knowledge that can be applied broadly in your game, not just to a specific situation. It’s the difference between learning a shot and learning how to shoot.

pj
chgo

 

[garczar]

On Youtube somewhere, there's close-up video of Bustamente's hand during a break shot, and it's remarkable how loose it is before, during, and after impacting the cue ball.

Here's one video in slow motion, but it's not a close-up.

His hand is super-loose on every shot.

 

[garczar]

:Yes, the grip matches a player's personality.

I always wondered about Francisco Bustemante that appears to have a very loose grip, but what about at impact?!? I ask him at the Scotty Townsend tournament a year ago what he feels at impact and Busty said he is firm at impact, which makes sense!

Aggressive players will naturally have a stronger grip and wimpy players will naturally have a weak, loose grip. It's not bad to be "wimpy" they used to call Luther Lassiter "Wimpy" but that may have been more about his love for hamburgers. LoL

Buddy holds it pretty firm. His whole hand is on the cue kinda like a he's holding a hammer.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I'm not shooting anyone. But pointing out that all that matters is the tip hitting the cue ball is fine, but it doesn't help. If someone can get more action on the cue ball with a lighter grip, and move the cue ball around the table more effortlessly, then that is what answers the question of what effect grip tightness has on the game.

Think of it this way.... using a looser grip enhances wrist action... a tighter grip diminishes wrist action because the wrist and forearm muscles are tense. That may be why you are sensing different ball action with same arm speed.

I myself like a lighter grip. Remember all the benefits of a slip stroke being taught? I didn't like a slip stoke much. I have had an entirely different experience with leather then Island Drive wrote above. I now exclusively use leather wrap or wrap less cues. I can use the same light grip with no slip. But my hands dont sweat.

 

[Island Drive]

Buck what I found out as I kept improving was this.
As I started winning more, I was getting playtime on the weekends, after the knock out rounds.
Wellllllll, I found this situation quite different.
On the weekends in pro events, it was full of spectators and the humidity went up allot.
I couldn't imagine playing in Houston with a wrap less cue, on a rainy day with my sweaty palms and expect to hold the cue without slippage.
Like you mentioned, we're all different. But Varner growing up in the Midwest, like yourself he knows about humidity. In CO it's quite different.