How is this happening? Might need Dr Dave or Bob J.

T

tim913

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Probably a dumb question with simple answers so go ahead and beat me up, I'm ready.

I get down on my shot, line it up perfectly, all locked in, shoot the shot and boom, nothing but net .. middle of hole. I then do the same, close my eyes, stroke through to finish and hear that sweet bottom of hole sound from my GC IV.

But then I repeat it all, lined up perfectly, but before I shoot I concentrate on a different contact point on OB and miss the shot. I have not moved my head, bridge hand, or anything .. I'm locked in, all I do is concentrate on a different contact point on OB after I've already setup on correct contact point.

I know you might say I steered the ball, but how? You might say I subconsciously moved my grip hand left or right, adding some BH english, which caused some deflection. but don't players who use BH english do so to compensate for deflection or squirt? Confused in Illinois!
 
Your brain aims on where you show it to aim. That's why players miss when they flick their glance to say the cueball path or some other spot they are looking at.
 
If you’re bridge length doesn’t match the natural pivot point of the cue, then any unintended English will cause deflection. Add to that the swerve you get and you’re gonna be off target.

If you’re bridge is longer than the natural pivot then unintended spin will cause deflection opposite the swerve, but if your bridge length is shorter than the natural pivot then the deflection will be in the same direction as the swerve. With modern LD shafts hardly anyone bridges longer than the natural pivot point.

Dr Dave has a instructions on how to find the pivot point if you want to give it a try with a calibrated bridge length.


Found the link: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
hang-the-9 said:
Your brain aims on where you show it to aim. That's why players miss when they flick their glance to say the cueball path or some other spot they are looking at.
Click to expand...
I understand that but don’t understand this physics
hang-the-9 said:
Your brain aims on where you show it to aim. That's why players miss when they flick their glance to say the cueball path or some other spot they are looking at.
Click to expand...
I understand that but don’t understand the Physics behind it
 
AF pool guy said:
If you’re bridge length doesn’t match the natural pivot point of the cue, then any unintended English will cause deflection. Add to that the swerve you get and you’re gonna be off target.

If you’re bridge is longer than the natural pivot then unintended spin will cause deflection opposite the swerve, but if your bridge length is shorter than the natural pivot then the deflection will be in the same direction as the swerve. With modern LD shafts hardly anyone bridges longer than the natural pivot point.

Dr Dave has a instructions on how to find the pivot point if you want to give it a try with a calibrated bridge length.


Found the link: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I’ll look into that but I have gone through exercises involving that. If I put a ball in front of hole for a straight in shot and use BH English left or right the CB usually just stops and spins
 
tim913 said:
...I know you might say I steered the ball, but how?....
Click to expand...
Obviously, something is moving. It is useful to know how much movement is required to miss a shot.

There are pretty simple formulas for figuring out how accurate your body position has to be at the instant of contact. As just one example, on a spot shot (cue ball in hand behind the line), your front and back hand need to be in the correct locations at the instant of contact within about 1mm, which is 1/25th of an inch. Try video recording the back of your stick during a stroke and see if it has less than that much wobble side-to-side. Most video setups are going to have a hard time seeing movement that is that small.

To study my own errors (and also to study how much backhand english can help compensate stroke swerve), I whittled a V-bridge into the edge of a small board. I anchored the bridge board onto the table on its side and put cue ball and object ball on donuts to repeat shots. This allowed me to be sure I was not moving my bridge during the shot and only my stroke could cause errors. It also made sure my bridge started in the same place every shot. It is a good way to eliminate a set of possible errors.

The bridge board is easy to make even with simple tools. You could simply use a normal mechanical bridge head, but it's harder to anchor that to the table, depending on what other tools/clamps/fixtures/vises/large dogs you have available.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Obviously, something is moving. It is useful to know how much movement is required to miss a shot.

There are pretty simple formulas for figuring out how accurate your body position has to be at the instant of contact. As just one example, on a spot shot (cue ball in hand behind the line), your front and back hand need to be in the correct locations at the instant of contact within about 1mm, which is 1/25th of an inch. Try video recording the back of your stick during a stroke and see if it has less than that much wobble side-to-side. Most video setups are going to have a hard time seeing movement that is that small.

To study my own errors (and also to study how much backhand english can help compensate stroke swerve), I whittled a V-bridge into the edge of a small board. I anchored the bridge board onto the table on its side and put cue ball and object ball on donuts to repeat shots. This allowed me to be sure I was not moving my bridge during the shot and only my stroke could cause errors. It also made sure my bridge started in the same place every shot. It is a good way to eliminate a set of possible errors.

The bridge board is easy to make even with simple tools. You could simply use a normal mechanical bridge head, but it's harder to anchor that to the table, depending on what other tools/clamps/fixtures/vises/large dogs you have available.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response and I’ll have to create a bridge board and get to work but I have done exercises for pivot point and thought that if that distance was correct then BH English would not change path of CB or add deflection or squirt and whatever it is must be small because with everything else being the same I only switch contact point on OB when I’m at the P in my SPF, close my eyes and finish and I do not feel any movement side to side in my grip but I can still miss ball doing this .. Thanks again!
 
tim913 said:
Probably a dumb question with simple answers so go ahead and beat me up, I'm ready.

I get down on my shot, line it up perfectly, all locked in, shoot the shot and boom, nothing but net .. middle of hole. I then do the same, close my eyes, stroke through to finish and hear that sweet bottom of hole sound from my GC IV.

But then I repeat it all, lined up perfectly, but before I shoot I concentrate on a different contact point on OB and miss the shot. I have not moved my head, bridge hand, or anything .. I'm locked in, all I do is concentrate on a different contact point on OB after I've already setup on correct contact point.

I know you might say I steered the ball, but how? You might say I subconsciously moved my grip hand left or right, adding some BH english, which caused some deflection. but don't players who use BH english do so to compensate for deflection or squirt? Confused in Illinois!
Click to expand...
Pool is a game of millimeters and smaller. When you shift your glance, no matter how "lined up" you are, the CB follows your eyes. It's probably beyond the realm of mere mortals to recognize the absolutely minute changes to delivery when we focus on the wrong target.
 
boogieman said:
Pool is a game of millimeters and smaller. When you shift your glance, no matter how "lined up" you are, the CB follows your eyes. It's probably beyond the realm of mere mortals to recognize the absolutely minute changes to delivery when we focus on the wrong target.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100% and that's why if I'm focused I can string racks together, but was curious as to why it happens if nothing has(obviously something has) moved but my glance on the OB. I understand that if I line up incorrectly why it would happen, but I can make the ball 100 times in a row but a mere glance off of contact point before finish and CB follows my eyes. It's wonderful when I'm focused I want it to contact OB where I'm looking but I now understand from the help received on the post that I have some work to do
 
tim913 said:
I understand that but don’t understand this physics

I understand that but don’t understand the Physics behind it
Click to expand...

Humans don't follow the laws of physics very well unless dropped from a plane without a parachute. Your brain and muscles do their best to do what your thoughts tell the body to do, that includes aiming where it thinks you want to hit. To find out exactly why it does this, you would need a team of scientists and instruments to measure your eyes, muscles and brain activity at the time of the shots.
 
tim913 said:
Probably a dumb question with simple answers so go ahead and beat me up, I'm ready.

I get down on my shot, line it up perfectly, all locked in, shoot the shot and boom, nothing but net .. middle of hole. I then do the same, close my eyes, stroke through to finish and hear that sweet bottom of hole sound from my GC IV.

But then I repeat it all, lined up perfectly, but before I shoot I concentrate on a different contact point on OB and miss the shot. I have not moved my head, bridge hand, or anything .. I'm locked in, all I do is concentrate on a different contact point on OB after I've already setup on correct contact point.

I know you might say I steered the ball, but how? You might say I subconsciously moved my grip hand left or right, adding some BH english, which caused some deflection. but don't players who use BH english do so to compensate for deflection or squirt? Confused in Illinois!
Click to expand...
"your eyes lead and your body follows" - Stan Shuffett
 
tim913 said:
I agree with you 100% and that's why if I'm focused I can string racks together, but was curious as to why it happens if nothing has(obviously something has) moved but my glance on the OB. I understand that if I line up incorrectly why it would happen, but I can make the ball 100 times in a row but a mere glance off of contact point before finish and CB follows my eyes. It's wonderful when I'm focused I want it to contact OB where I'm looking but I now understand from the help received on the post that I have some work to do
Click to expand...

It's your mind fine-tuning your stroke to match the input being provided by your eyes. Imagine winding up to throw a straight fast ball pitch in baseball. Your initial visual target (the catcher's mitt) has your mind putting your body on the right track. But if during the middle of the wind up you decide to focus on the batter's feet, your mind will likely force your body off track and more toward the new visual focus.
 
BC21 said:
It's your mind fine-tuning your stroke to match the input being provided by your eyes. Imagine winding up to throw a straight fast ball pitch in baseball. Your initial visual target (the catcher's mitt) has your mind putting your body on the right track. But if during the middle of the wind up you decide to focus on the batter's feet, your mind will likely force your body off track and more toward the new visual focus.
Click to expand...
I thought the pool stroke might be different since you’re locked in and all it seemed like I was doing was changing where I was looking without moving anything else, or so I thought.The pitcher is moving his whole body. I think it’s because I’m moving my grip hand without knowing it and that’s what I’ve been working on for a couple of days now with some recommended aids. Thanks!
 
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