Diamond arrived update

[JoeyInCali]

Several pros play with $3K or more cues . Several play with SW, Gina ang Cog in Asia.
Ralf Souquet's Joss is easily worth 5K.
Dennis played with an expensive SW for a long time . Chua and Aranas too .
Morro and Kingkong played with expensive Tad for a long time . Morro played with an expensive McDaniel after that .
Efren played with an ebony pointed Judd with inlays . It sold for over $10K.

A lot of pros are just like regular people . They too have PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP.
Of course, most get bought out by production cue companies . Mostly foreign based now .
I can name a few more who used custom cues and not get paid for it .
But, you get the point.

 

[realkingcobra]

Several pros play with $3K or more cues . Several play with SW, Gina ang Cog in Asia.
Ralf Souquet's Joss is easily worth 5K.
Dennis played with an expensive SW for a long time . Chua and Aranas too .
Morro and Kingkong played with expensive Tad for a long time . Morro played with an expensive McDaniel after that .
Efren played with an ebony pointed Judd with inlays . It sold for over $10K.

A lot of pros are just like regular people . They too have PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP.
Of course, most get bought out by production cue companies . Mostly foreign based now .
I can name a few more who used custom cues and not get paid for it .
But, you get the point.

And how many of those pros you mentioned, actually PAID money for those cues, vs given to them to PLAY with for marketing purposes from the cue makers?

 

[JoeyInCali]

And how many of those pros you mentioned, actually PAID money for those cues, vs given to them to PLAY with for marketing purposes from the cue makers?

SW DO NOT PAY ANYONE to use their cues .
Cog is the same . Neither does Ernie G.
Several pros in the 80's shot with Schoen UNPAID . Some of the were snagged by Meucci .
Tad did not give anyone cues to play with .

 

[realkingcobra]

SW DO NOT PAY ANYONE to use their cues .
Cog is the same . Neither does Ernie G.
Several pros in the 80's shot with Schoen UNPAID . Some of the were snagged by Meucci .
Tad did not give anyone cues to play with .

So does that mean they were NOT given the cues to play with, for free???

 

[realkingcobra]

SW DO NOT PAY ANYONE to use their cues .
Cog is the same . Neither does Ernie G.
Several pros in the 80's shot with Schoen UNPAID . Some of the were snagged by Meucci .
Tad did not give anyone cues to play with .

I know for a fact, Tad gave Allen Hopkins a cue for free to play with, and because of that, his playing with a Tad cue kicked off the sales for Tad cues!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

SW DO NOT PAY ANYONE to use their cues .
Cog is the same . Neither does Ernie G.
Several pros in the 80's shot with Schoen UNPAID . Some of the were snagged by Meucci .
Tad did not give anyone cues to play with .

Paying a player and giving them a cue for free to play with is 2 different things!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Paying a player and giving them a cue for free to play with is 2 different things!!

SW never gave those Taiwanese and Chinese players free cues . They bought them from their own pockets .
Saw Tommy Kennedy at the Commerce Casino with his BEM SW. I even helped him unscrew it . He paid for it .
Ernie did not give cues to Taiwanese players . Why would he ? Taiwan was just a small market then . Japan was the biggest market .
Dennis and Chua definitely did not get cues from SW. They were nobodies when they played with them .
Andam paid for his Schon .
Rodney Morris shot with a Szambotti . I highly doubt he got that for free .
I know Davenport paid for his Szambotti including the jump cue .
They were ridiculously cheap when he started playing with them.
When his contract with Meucci lapsed, he played with them again .

 

[The_JV]

I'm with both of you. I'm just fine with my below $700 cues. But my question still remains partially unanswered. IF YOU WERE THE TYPE TO BUY SUCH A CUE, WOULD YOU NOT EXPECT PERFECTION??? It's a very simple question. It has a simple answer.... either way.

Me...? Unless I was receiving some level of discount for sake of compensation for less than perfection, then yes, I'd want perfection. My Exceed isn't a custom cue though. Well it's not assembly line production, but not made "for me".

Honestly if I was looking a wall of several of identical cues for only $600, I'd inspect them all and take the best one....lol. I'm just one of those weird people that wants the most for my hard earned dollar.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I know for a fact, Tad gave Allen Hopkins a cue for free to play with, and because of that, his playing with a Tad cue kicked off the sales for Tad cues!!!

I know for a fact a hall of famer tried to sweet talk Tad in getting a free cue in the '97 BCA and didn't get one .

 

[JoeyInCali]

And how many of those pros you mentioned, actually PAID money for those cues, vs given to them to PLAY with for marketing purposes from the cue makers?

Did Joss pay SVB when he played with Joss ? Did he get them for free ?

 

[boogieman]

I'm with both of you. I'm just fine with my below $700 cues. But my question still remains partially unanswered. IF YOU WERE THE TYPE TO BUY SUCH A CUE, WOULD YOU NOT EXPECT PERFECTION??? It's a very simple question. It has a simple answer.... either way.

Did you read what I posted? I answered your question fully. I don't understand why you're continuing on with this rabbit hole train of thought. Why are you changing the subject? What is the goal? You don't have to debate here, I accept your stance as your stance. I said I understand why people want a perfect product, but I said the flaw was something I could personally live with. It's OK for a consumer to demand a certain level but you're not getting perfection because it doesn't exist.

It is logical.

There is nothing you have said that will hold up to logic unless you define your terms for perfection. If you want perfection, it's not coming at $10K. What you call perfection is simply the amount of deviation you allow from nominal that personally satisfies you. If you truly believe that you wont accept anything less than perfect then you are either blissfully unaware or don't have an eye for perfection. Perfection isn't something you get in consumer goods, even luxury goods. If you're trained you can find a flaw in almost anything.

This is why Diamond is well regarded, they are closer to perfection than many of their competitors. Is it your right to demand something when you're shelling out cash? Sure. What are we arguing about again?

 

[JC]

It's all in the installation.

I bought my diamond table at a yard sale and had it installed by the best and it was perfect even though it was already old.

 

[GoldCrown]

Good Installers rule. They turn yard sales into gold.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Did you read what I posted? I answered your question fully. I don't understand why you're continuing on with this rabbit hole train of thought. Why are you changing the subject? What is the goal? You don't have to debate here, I accept your stance as your stance. I said I understand why people want a perfect product, but I said the flaw was something I could personally live with. It's OK for a consumer to demand a certain level but you're not getting perfection because it doesn't exist.


There is nothing you have said that will hold up to logic unless you define your terms for perfection. If you want perfection, it's not coming at $10K. What you call perfection is simply the amount of deviation you allow from nominal that personally satisfies you. If you truly believe that you wont accept anything less than perfect then you are either blissfully unaware or don't have an eye for perfection. Perfection isn't something you get in consumer goods, even luxury goods. If you're trained you can find a flaw in almost anything.

This is why Diamond is well regarded, they are closer to perfection than many of their competitors. Is it your right to demand something when you're shelling out cash? Sure. What are we arguing about again?

Sorry I hurt your little feelings. I was trying to build and example.... where do people draw the line? And I painted cars professionally in my younger days... I can spot a flaw.... BELIEVE me.

 

[chenjy9]

Outside of the OP's legitimate misfortune that will hopefully be rectified to his satisfaction, this thread essentially boils down to whether or not one views a Diamond table as a work of art or a serious tool for enjoying pool. Neither opinions are wrong (usually the case with opinions) as it really depends on how one interprets their mission statement of "creating a table that would so surpass all others in quality and craftsmanship that it would become the standard for national and international tournament play", specifically how each individual defines "quality and craftsmanship". It's getting back to the point where people are flinging poo again like monkeys which does neither the OP's situation, Diamond, Heath, or the game any good anymore.

 

[GoldCrown]

It's getting back to the point where people are flinging poo again

I bought an anti poo fling wet suit. However it has some defects. Who do I call.

 

[chenjy9]

I bought an anti poo fling wet suit. However it has some defects. Who do I call.

Depends on if they needed someone to deliver or assemble the suit for you!

Or call the anti poo slinging suit world’s version of rkc to get the suit working right!


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[boogieman]

Sorry I hurt your little feelings. I was trying to build and example.... where do people draw the line? And I painted cars professionally in my younger days... I can spot a flaw.... BELIEVE me.

Hurt my feelings? There you go projecting again. Some folks just can't get this internet debate logic down. Your lucky you didn't make any speling or grammatical errors or I would have destroyed you.

 

[The_JV]

this thread essentially boils down to whether or not one views a Diamond table as a work of art or a serious tool for enjoying pool.

...and here is the mistake some people are making.

It isn't about this art vs form crap. It's about an obvious blem on what is touted as one of the best tables on the market. A table that otherwise commands one of the highest price points. A table that enjoys hanging it's hat on the "Proudly Made in America" sales pitch. Isn't this whole 'made in America' thing supposed to symbolize the very best you can get..?.., pride in craftsmanship..?.., etc. So when we look at that blem, what do you see and how does it make you feel...? If it's "Shoot ya, look at the effort I got for $10k!!.., I'm so happy", then move on cause the rest doesn't matter.

What this thread actually boils down to is whether or not you are willing to accept less than the standard when paying for the standard.

Everyone keeps claiming that the blemish isn't that bad, or you shouldn't expect perfection. Well..., although the blem certainly drops this specific table from the lofty status of "perfect". In reality the blem is nothing more than a deviation from the standard. That standard isn't perfection, but merely supposedly the best you can get for your money. Do any of the other sights have the same blem..? Has anyone else seen a similar blem on a different Diamond table...? I know I haven't. Seems to me that if they got it right on the vast majority of similar efforts, then this makes the blem a flaw, not a whining point.

If this was not a Diamond, but a table from China or some other nation thought to produce sub par products. All the responses would have mocking under tones of "that's what get for not buying American", or "hope you're happy with your decision", or "if you wanted perfection you should have bought a Diamond".

The tint on these rose coloured glasses must be really heavy, because those from the nation local to Diamond can't even pick up on their own hypocrisy...lol

 

[chenjy9]

No, that is what you WANT to make the argument to be because it fits YOUR agenda. Some interpret quality and craftsmanship as how well built the table is to shoot pool at the highest level. Cosmetic blemishes does not affect that. Others like you expect visual perfection because you are treating it as some kind of showpiece. Now I am not at all saying it is wrong for you to expect perfection as the value of dollar differs for each person, but don’t get things twisted.

Like I said, I don’t use Diamond. I have a Presidential Cape Town. As someone who is not tribalistic or xenophobic, I also don’t place any importance on buying “American”. Therefore, I don’t have a dog in this fight.


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