Important Update To Rare & Fancy Gus Szamboti Cue

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
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The rare and wonderful Gus cue I recently posted about in another thread will, in fact, be going up for sale, after all. đź‘Ť

According to Barry, the cue is estimated to be from the late 70's / early 80's and is one of Gus's most spectacular.

The important update on this cue is that the handle was replaced, reportedly by Tim Scruggs, and that would have been done prior to 2004. Also, the joint on this cue *may* also have been replaced but that is not certain, one way or the other.

Anyone who knows me or has ever dealt with me should be aware that I'm all about transparency and full disclosure so this info will accompany any for sale ad that I place for this cue.

Will this updated info affect the value? We're going to
Gus-Eb-Front-Fancy-buttsleeve-4shafts.jpg
have a chance to see.

At the end of the day the market will decide what it's worth but there's no getting around the fact that Gus's cues are revered by many and someone is going to want this amazing example in their collection, imo.

I will repost pics along with this post to keep everything together.

Thanks.

best,
brian kc
 

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Beautiful cue, and at one time may have been one of the nicest Gus has made, but that’s quite a bit of work. Good of you to be upfront about that from the get go. Good luck with the sale.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
The rare and wonderful Gus cue I recently posted about in another thread will, in fact, be going up for sale, after all. đź‘Ť

According to Barry, the cue is estimated to be from the late 70's / early 80's and is one of Gus's most spectacular.

The important update on this cue is that the handle was replaced, reportedly by Tim Scruggs, and that would have been done prior to 2004. Also, the joint on this cue *may* also have been replaced but that is not certain, one way or the other.

Anyone who knows me or has ever dealt with me should be aware that I'm all about transparency and full disclosure so this info will accompany any for sale ad that I place for this cue.

Will this updated info affect the value? We're going toView attachment 605731 have a chance to see.

At the end of the day the market will decide what it's worth but there's no getting around the fact that Gus's cues are revered by many and someone is going to want this amazing example in their collection, imo.

I will repost pics along with this post to keep everything together.

Thanks.

best,
brian kc
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This question may show my ignorance regarding cues, but just curious exactly what part of the cue constitutes what you refer to as the handle? I assume you mean the grip area - linen, leather or no wrap?
 
ChrisinNC said:
This question may show my ignorance regarding cues, but just curious exactly what part of the cue constitutes what you refer to as the handle? I assume you mean the grip area - linen, leather or no wrap?
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hi Chris;

Hope all is well, sir.

The handle is the section of the cue that is under the wrap and attaches to the forearm section.

best,
brian kc
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
hi Chris;

Hope all is well, sir.

The handle is the section of the cue that is under the wrap and attaches to the forearm section.

best,
brian kc
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Brian, thanks. I can understand why a wrap might need to be replaced, but why would the handle (I assume the wood) under the wrap ever need to be replaced?
 
I’ve seen handles replaced as well, it’s not a huge issue IMO. Especially considering who did the replacement. Any cue that old touched by a short list of cue makers from that era isn’t a negative thing. Tim, Barry, etc replacing a handle isn’t the end of the world and certainly doesn’t destroy the value of the cue. If it was sent in to Mali in 85 for a handle……maybe that’s a issue. (Sorry Mali people)

That’s a monster Gus, will fetch a nice number I’m sure. Who ever buys it is very lucky. That’s super rare.

Best
Fatboy
 
ChrisinNC said:
Brian, thanks. I can understand why a wrap might need to be replaced, but why would the handle (I assume the wood) under the wrap ever need to be replaced?
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Wood moves. That’s why.

And it’s not as big of a job as it sounds like it is.

It’s not a common problem, but on big dollar cues it’s a decision that has to be made. What’s the cue worth warped? On a $1200 cue it’s not a decision. But in the monster category it’s a real decision.

I have a monster Tad with a cracked ivory butt cap. From top to bottom it cracked while in a case in a safe. Not a chip. I haven’t replaced it, but it’s a issue because it’s a huge $ cue. If it was a $2000 cue-easier decision.

The fact it’s being disclosed is super cool and the only way to do biz. It’s a very very small market and we all are 2 calls away from each other.

best
Fatboy
 
ChrisinNC said:
Brian, thanks. I can understand why a wrap might need to be replaced, but why would the handle (I assume the wood) under the wrap ever need to be replaced?
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The handle warping or breaking would be 2 examples
 
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Fatboy said:
I’ve seen handles replaced as well, it’s not a huge issue IMO. Especially considering who did the replacement. Any cue that old touched by a short list of cue makers from that era isn’t a negative thing. Tim, Barry, etc replacing a handle isn’t the end of the world and certainly doesn’t destroy the value of the cue. If it was sent in to Mali in 85 for a handle……maybe that’s a issue. (Sorry Mali people)

That’s a monster Gus, will fetch a nice number I’m sure. Who ever buys it is very lucky. That’s super rare.

Best
Fatboy
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The LOA would need to disclose who replaced it, otherwise "unknown" and that crushes the value. Hopefully he has a receipt from Tim, but clearly the market knows the cue if an update came out of left field. The market will speak to value either way.

It's a stunning cue, will likely need a trade+cash to get it's real value due to the sharply diminished number of guys that will spend $10k-$30k cash on a pool cue.
 
ideologist said:
The LOA would need to disclose who replaced it, otherwise "unknown" and that crushes the value. Hopefully he has a receipt from Tim, but clearly the market knows the cue if an update came out of left field. The market will speak to value either way.

It's a stunning cue, will likely need a trade+cash to get it's real value due to the sharply diminished number of guys that will spend $10k-$30k cash on a pool cue.
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Yes the documentation of who did what is very important you are absolutely right.

If it was Mali or some unknown cue maker that would harm the value of the cue-from peak price point. If it’s documented and a cue maker on that short list then all good less harm. In any case it’s a expensive cue.

Hopefully this was documented. It wasn’t a 4pt 4 veneer cue when it went in for work. It was a very valuable cue then and anyone with any knowledge of cues would have documented everything one would think. It wasn’t a $500 cue when the handle or what ever was done.

In any case what is good is the disclosure of the after production repairs/work doe to the cue. That’s stand up cue biz and is very commendable.
 
Fatboy said:
Yes the documentation of who did what is very important you are absolutely right.

If it was Mali or some unknown cue maker that would harm the value of the cue-from peak price point. If it’s documented and a cue maker on that short list then all good less harm. In any case it’s a expensive cue.

Hopefully this was documented. It wasn’t a 4pt 4 veneer cue when it went in for work. It was a very valuable cue then and anyone with any knowledge of cues would have documented everything one would think. It wasn’t a $500 cue when the handle or what ever was done.

In any case what is good is the disclosure of the after production repairs/work doe to the cue. That’s stand up cue biz and is very commendable.
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I find it interesting that it wasn’t sent to Barry to fix.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I find it interesting that it wasn’t sent to Barry to fix.
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Would Barry do the work? Seems like I've heard he turns down work like that.

If he will work on it, send it to him and have it replaced again, at least that's what I would do with it.

If Barry won't do the work, I'd try to get Searing, Mobley, or maybe Tascarella to do the work, then there's no question.
 
jasonlaus said:
Would Barry do the work? Seems like I've heard he turns down work like that.

If he will work on it, send it to him and have it replaced again, at least that's what I would do with it.

If Barry won't do the work, I'd try to get Searing, Mobley, or maybe Tascarella to do the work, then there's no question.
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I have done my best to gain whatever knowledge I could about this monumental cue. In doing so I have spoken with Barry, my friend (the current owner of approx 20 yrs), the previous owner (a major collector) who sold it to my friend, and a couple other important guys who are familiar with this cue.

The major collector reported that he acquired the cue from a gentleman from Maryland who indicated that he had work done on the cue by Tim Scruggs which, if accurate, would make sense being a fellow Marylander. However, there is no supporting documentation from Tim for this work so it then just becomes part of the told story.

Barry indicated to me that even if he wanted to, the fact that he is trying to wind things down at his shop would leave no time for taking on any new work - and again, even if so inclined. If a next owner of this cue would like certainty about who did the handle repair beyond what is reported, they could indeed pick one of the fine makers you suggest or anyone else they would like, so beyond whatever that repair might cost, it may not cause much of a negative effect if any with respect to value.

I will be putting this cue up for sale in the next day or so and will keep everyone posted.

thx,
brian kc
 
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GREAT POST and fantastice disclosure about the cue. Respect to Kickin Chicken, aka Brian, for doing the right thing!

I had a similar experience with my first 'real' custom cue. I had a buzz the builder fixed that. Then the ivory joint got loose, the builder fixed that. Then it had another issue in the handle so I sent it to a different cue maker to have it looked at. Well he decided to cut the whole handle off and rebuild it. When he did he sanded off the cue makers name and forged it back on but forgot to include the year which was on it. On top of that the inlays in the rings no longer lined up. I then called to original builder and told him what happened. He reached out to the guy that forged and ruined the cue and he lied about it, naturally. So the original guy was apologetic that I had so many issues with his cue and said he would rebuild it. Which he did. When I finally got it back( if it had frequent flyer miles it could have gone on a vacation) I sold it ASAP before anything else went wrong. I met a cue flipper I knew at a pool hall. I gave him the full report to his face and he bought it and resold it in a week. It was gone I had done the right thing and my conscience was clear. My pocketbook was much lighter but it was gone. Whether the flipper disclosed anything or not was up to him.. I did not include names and will not as one has passed away and the original builder retired from cue making.
So doing the right thing is indeed the right thing to do!
 
Quesports said:
GREAT POST and fantastice disclosure about the cue. Respect to Kickin Chicken, aka Brian, for doing the right thing!

I had a similar experience with my first 'real' custom cue. I had a buzz the builder fixed that. Then the ivory joint got loose, the builder fixed that. Then it had another issue in the handle so I sent it to a different cue maker to have it looked at. Well he decided to cut the whole handle off and rebuild it. When he did he sanded off the cue makers name and forged it back on but forgot to include the year which was on it. On top of that the inlays in the rings no longer lined up. I then called to original builder and told him what happened. He reached out to the guy that forged and ruined the cue and he lied about it, naturally. So the original guy was apologetic that I had so many issues with his cue and said he would rebuild it. Which he did. When I finally got it back( if it had frequent flyer miles it could have gone on a vacation) I sold it ASAP before anything else went wrong. I met a cue flipper I knew at a pool hall. I gave him the full report to his face and he bought it and resold it in a week. It was gone I had done the right thing and my conscience was clear. My pocketbook was much lighter but it was gone. Whether the flipper disclosed anything or not was up to him.. I did not include names and will not as one has passed away and the original builder retired from cue making.
So doing the right thing is indeed the right thing to do!
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My first guess would be RB
 
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