Advantage after the break
- Thread starter brigeton
- Start date
Pin
Registered
I guess the only situation where a worse player might have an advantage would be in special cases where the player who is better overall, tends to hurt himself by doing something stupid.
So a better player who tried to run every table might leave himself with one or two balls from his group, and so give the other guy the strategic advantage.
But the other player still has to be good (and strategic) enough to turn it into a win.
In general, if the APA5 consistently had an advantage in such broad cases as this, he and the APA7 would quickly swap their rankings.
So a better player who tried to run every table might leave himself with one or two balls from his group, and so give the other guy the strategic advantage.
But the other player still has to be good (and strategic) enough to turn it into a win.
In general, if the APA5 consistently had an advantage in such broad cases as this, he and the APA7 would quickly swap their rankings.
Is an APA 5 the favorite to run the table? I really don't know where that line is with APA rankings. If he's the favorite to run out, I'd say he has the advantage.
The better player always has the advantage, especially if the balls are wide open, no trouble, no clusters. If the balls are in a multi-cluster mess, the better player still has the advantage, but the weaker player may be able to gain the advantage with the right opportunities and some smart strategy.
Does the better player have the advantage if he's in his chair against a competent player? If I break wide open on a bar table against SVB, and I'm still shooting, I have the advantage.
I agree 100%. I should've clarified that the better player has the advantage if they are the one at the table after the break.
My career with the APA lasted 3 weeks. First week I won and was raised from 4 to 5. Second week I won and was raised from 5 to 6. Third week I won and would have been raised from 6 to 7. When you get high enough they can't use you any more so you have to start dumping to stay on the team which is a waste of time.
Based upon my experience if an APA 5 is a favorite to run the table I'd say he won't be a 5 for long.
Most of the time, yes.
Ever had absolutely no shot after the break, and no safety to play? I know I have, and it's no fun.
Absolutely no potable ball or safety play on an open table after the break is pretty damn rare.
There's always a shot, you just have to find it.
It's not as rare as it should be. Lol. And I agree there is always some sort of shot, but often it's a rediculous shot that has very little chance of being pulled off, or a bank or kick shot that could easily lead to losing if missed.
I remember watching a match between Efren and Sigel, an old king of the hill 8ball match from years ago. I'm sure it's on YouTube. Anyway, Mike Sigel had a few racks where immediately after the break he had absolutely no good open shot or safety to play. By "open" I mean a direct line to a pocket, no bank or kick or jump or massé shot required.
It happens more often than we like to think, especially playing 8ball on a barbox using the 2nd ball break.
Last edited:
This situation has no clear answer as written. Of course the better player had the advantage in every case here. Clusters may keep a high level player from running out, but they still have more skill and knowledge to out-move the lower level player. Especially in APA skill levels since a 7 can be anything from a decent B to an almost Pro level shooter. I can always tell the lower level players that shoot league because they are very careful to not break out clusters and try to move their balls close to the pocket instead of actually trying to win by running out and playing position to break out trouble balls. This strategy is good for someone that can't run out to keep the other player from having an easy win, but against an actual good player like what an APA 7 should be, that is not the strongest thing.
No a 5 in APA (real 5 that is LOL) should not be able to run out often. 5s are probably the most varied rank in the APA, they can have issues running 3 balls and another rack they can run out. A 7 probably has a harder time winning vs a 5 than any other rank due to the handicap and the fact that a 5 can get lucky or just play good and beat the 7 even up. A 6, the handicap is less and they tend to go for harder lower % shots to give the 7 an open table, a 5 would be playing closer to the chest since they know the 7 is that much better to not leave them an open table. A 6 may let his ego get in the way, and a 4 or less just would not have the pocketing and position/safety ability to do much vs a 7. Since an APA 5 does have a chance to just run out after a mistake or a lucky safe or something, they may be the most dangerous class of player in APA outside of a strong 7 that is an A player.
I never understood the whole moving balls closer to the pocket thing. I had a dude do that to me in an 8 ball tournament, it took me a couple innings to figure out what he was trying to do but he would move his ball close to the opening while playing safe, especially if I needed that pocket. So I just started calling my balls behind his, we were playing on a Valley and it worked like a charm with the short shelves and all, think I won 6-1. I wonder if he still uses that strategy??.
It is always the guy shooting next
Well it's not a bad thing in theory to do, but it does not usually work vs a good players. From what I have seen it's just about only used by league players due to coaching and handicaps, with good players using this as a strategy only when they must or if they have little other actions to take.
I played a few tournaments with players like that, they would bunt a ball to their pocket, I would run out, the guy went to play my son, bunted a ball towards a pocket, he would run out LOL. Really does not work the best as the only strategy vs good players but league players know what they know.
What if the guy shooting next has very little chance of running out? There are definitely exceptions.