No company designs a pocket to be 5 inches at the back of the throat / the slate drop off point. All pockets taper back at least to some degree. 5-inch mouth pockets generally taper back to no more than a 4-1/2 inch throat, and 4-1/2 inch diamonds at the mouth taper back to just over 4 inches at the slate drop off point and 3-7/8 inches at the very back of the facing where it meets the leather.Unless you're running a 14.1 High run competition with 5" pocket openings, then you want the throat of the pockets to be at least 5" same as the mouth of the pocket, or maybe even a little wider, hate to see a ball missed in the mouth of the pocket ending a run
Pocket pictures?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
Then I guess you haven't seen the GC3 they're using for the 14.1 high run challenge
they made it a point to show the 5" pocket opening, to show it was a stock built pocket
SVB currently has the highrun record of 308 balls.Then I guess you haven't seen the GC3 they're using for the 14.1 high run challenge
to show it was a stock built pocket
If you extend the rails to tighten the corners to 4.25 or 4.125 and adjust the angles, doesn’t that make the opening about the same size as the throat? Seems like the facings look parallel to me.Unless you're running a 14.1 High run competition with 5" pocket openings, then you want the throat of the pockets to be at least 5" same as the mouth of the pocket, or maybe even a little wider, hate to see a ball missed in the mouth of the pocket ending a run
Regardless of the mouth of the pocket opening, the throat of the pocket is still going to have a visible smaller distance side to side compared to the pocket opening itself, if the pockets are correctly proportional. At no time should the throat of the pocket be the same width as the pocket opening at its opening width!! That is the Valley coin operated pool table design in which the pockets suck in the balls, offering no form of resistance, in which everyone refers to has BUCKETS!
Wyoming 8 Ball tables in CornerPockets?
Thats right, miter angles, down angles, and pocket facings all determine just exactly how that tightened pocket is going to accept or reject balls, but 99% of everyone seems to be obsessed with measuring the pocket opening to voice their opinions on how tight or loose the pockets are, when they actually don't know shit about what makes a pocket play good or bad.
Well, I am going to ask glen to invent rails that use liquid or air as replacement for rubber.
He should also make them able to swap easily between carom/ pocket billiards use, so dynamic pocket size will be possible.
It will also need to retro fit all tables.
And it needs to be quiet, quick and cheap
I think that's all.
Already on the project! New cushions will be available in January, light weight, works by way of air in the cushions instead of rubber, one size can fit all holes requardless of the size of the pockets, and and banking balls is like bouncing off a pillow of air. They can handle any air pressure you want to blow them up to, big enough to fit an Arabian camel, yet gentle enough to not wear the cloth, available in several colors, and the best thing about them, is unlike all the rest of the cushion rubbers used, these are made in the good old USA. I'll call the Trogan manufacturers in NJ and see when we can get a shipment, but I have to make you aware, there may be a substantial wait, as they've been sold out and have had record sales since covid19 hit, and the world got hit with all the shut downs, and stay in place government requirements
I knew you had our back.Already on the project! New cushions will be available in January, light weight, works by way of air in the cushions instead of rubber, one size can fit all holes requardless of the size of the pockets, and and banking balls is like bouncing off a pillow of air. They can handle any air pressure you want to blow them up to, big enough to fit an Arabian camel, yet gentle enough to not wear the cloth, available in several colors, and the best thing about them, is unlike all the rest of the cushion rubbers used, these are made in the good old USA. I'll call the Trogan manufacturers in NJ and see when we can get a shipment, but I have to make you aware, there may be a substantial wait, as they've been sold out and have had record sales since covid19 hit, and the world got hit with all the shut downs, and stay in place government requirements
I'd imagine significant cause for delay is the price. Honestly, I think $400 is too generous of you and you should bump it up to 600.
Thanks, as always,
You're black
Balled
I posted these from the International Open (multiple events, Norfolk, VA) about six weeks ago. These were said to be 4 1/4".
![CropperCapture[766].png](https://forums.azbilliards.com/attachments/croppercapture-766-png.619930/ "CropperCapture[766].png")
![CropperCapture[767].png](https://forums.azbilliards.com/attachments/croppercapture-767-png.619931/ "CropperCapture[767].png")
My calibrated eyeball says you are right! Side pockets seem tighter than the standard 1/2” larger than corners, but that seems to be the norm these days, and I like it!
Reminds me of the pockets on the tables in McCory's in Woodinville. Somebody was barking at Dooley because he didn't want to play with bucket pockets. As I remember they had the Valley cut and 5" (maybe larger). He took 3 balls in one hand and slammed them into a corner to demonstrate how huge they were. I thought of it as the retirement home for players. With the simonis cloth and huge pockets it was hard to not run out. Quarters went into the tables at an accelerated rate.Regardless of the mouth of the pocket opening, the throat of the pocket is still going to have a visible smaller distance side to side compared to the pocket opening itself, if the pockets are correctly proportional. At no time should the throat of the pocket be the same width as the pocket opening at its opening width!! That is the Valley coin operated pool table design in which the pockets suck in the balls, offering no form of resistance, in which everyone refers to has BUCKETS!
Come to think of it, what is the accepted standard ratio between the corners and side pockets?
It used to be the sides would be 1/2” bigger than the corners.
And they were black, 8ft, King Cobra coin operated tables, Hal loved them, at 50 cents a game the 4 of them generated $1,000 a week combined income
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I've played on those, it's like a vacuum cleaner. Any ball within a diamond of the pocket gets sucked in.
Hal and his wife were great hosts. Their Friday night meat shoot filled up at 32. One week I got 3rd place and never missed a ball. Made a lot of good friends there. Generous tables are good for recreation.And they were black, 8ft, King Cobra coin operated tables, Hal loved them, at 50 cents a game the 4 of them generated $1,000 a week combined income
I built 102 8fts, and 26 9fts. The 9fts had 4 1/2" corners and 5" sides. They were all built between 1995-1999. I didn't even know about Diamond at the time, and didn't meet them the first time until March 2000. I had been told they were attempting to get into the coin operated industry, and I was looking for a manufacturer as well. The result of my March 2000 meeting with Greg Sullivan is obvious with Diamond being in the coin operated industry today.
That's where the pocket facing angles come in... they're supposed to be 142°-143°, which reduces the opening by about 3/4" from mouth to throat, regardless of the mouth size (parallel facings would be 135° - and too easy).
pj
chgo