Lol... I appreciate the help you have already provided.Come on, if I gave you all the answers, what would there be left for you to figure out
Thanks
So What Does One Do When They Don't Have a Decent Local Mechanic...?
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
Thanks
Apologies, I missed this yesterday.If you need the nameplate let me know
Thanks but I have everything for this table. I needed to remove the nameplate to allow ease in sanding off the old finish. I do some backyard metal casting along with my many other diy hobbies. I'm most likely going to replace the old nameplate with something of my own design. Maybe with the family crest.
There's a ton more work going into this table then has been disclosed already. It will not be anything like any other 'Celebrity' out in the world when I'm done.
Stay tuned...
Just out of curiosity and forgive me if you've already stated the reason, but why didn't you start out with a better table such as a Gold Crown or comparable commercial grade table?Apologies, I missed this yesterday.
Thanks but I have everything for this table. I needed to remove the nameplate to allow ease in sanding off the old finish. I do some backyard metal casting along with my many other diy hobbies. I'm most likely going to replace the old nameplate with something of my own design. Maybe with the family crest.
There's a ton more work going into this table then has been disclosed already. It will not be anything like any other 'Celebrity' out in the world when I'm done.
Stay tuned...
I think I did touch on that earlier on, but I don't have a problem running through it again.
First is cost. Now this is relative because some apply their personal burn rate to the diy projects they take on. It needs to be understood that I am not one of those people. I actually swing the other way and perfer to take on projects even if there's minor savings to be had.
I had a line on a Canada Billiards 'Black Crown II' (commerical grade) table in fairly new condition. It would have cost me $~3k to purchase. Of course I would still have to tear it down and set it up. I never took the time to see it in person so I can't speak to it's pocket specs. That said, it was in a pool room which leads me to believe it still would have been lacking (too loose) to what I perfer to play on. So, reno a table I already own...?..., or buy a table that I'll have to reno. Although I do like the styling of the Black Crown II. I can't justify ~3k just because of some OEM chrome trim.
Second is heritage. This table was bought by my mother as a gift to my father. Although he did initially attempt to sell it on the open market before giving it to me. That fact still remains that it was gift by him to me and my family. So although the table isn't of exceeding quality or lengthy lineage. It still remains an item that has been passed down generationally speaking. If I bought something else, this table would have to go. No one else in my family either has the room and/or plays the game enough to justify having a table. So..., I have zero doubt that I can make this table play as well as anything else with the right amount of effort. What any other table would lack, is this heritage.
Lastly, the challenge. Reno'ing a table is something I've never taken on before. I'm one of those types of people that jump at opprotunities to learn skills. I'm an electrician by trade. Upgraded to automation and then controls programming professionally. I took up woodworking, which turned me on to vintage machinery restoration. That shifted me into metal casting and hobby machining....etc. Professionally I've went to pasture and took an admin job, so my idle hands and need of challenge made this project a must do.
I know some will not relate to any of the above. Yes, I could have easily bought something else, or thrown a ton of money at someone of experienced skill to do the work I'm taking on. That's just not the way I'm wired I'm afraid.
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Agreed on the time spent aspect and understood on the cost vs value proposition.
As good a reason as any and I figured this played into the decision.
I'm a DIY'er too so I get it.
I relate to all of the above. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out.I know some will not related to any of the above. Yes, I could have easily bought something else, or thrown a ton of money at someone of experienced skill to do the work I'm taking on. That's just not the way I'm wired I'm afraid.
No problem. I enjoyed doing so...
If my postings here encourage one other to take on the challenge of learning a new skill. It's worth the effort.
dendweller
Well-known member
I think that is good, there are some on here that think you should leave some things to the experts.
Yep, but in their defence. They're experts for a reason.
I hope the pros don't see these efforts and my eagerness to post them as a slight to their trade.
This whole search for a downward angle thing for example. I don't have the luxury of experimentation. I'm doing this once and that's it. I will not pull the rails, strip the cloth, and increase the downward angle just to see if they'll play better. It has made that particular aspect of this project the most intensely researched.
I respect not getting a handout by those in the know. They earned that knowledge. However that doesn't mean I won't flog the internet looking and encourage those with the data to post it up. Nothing but a resource moving forward imo
dendweller
Well-known member
I agree, I wasn't referring to the experts, they have a right to feel that way.
dendweller
Well-known member
From my point of view, experts should get something out of what they offer on this forum and people seeking info should pay. It's one thing if it's a bunch of diy guys like us sharing intel, it's another when someone that does this for a living is sharing what they know.
Well they do have option not to comment.. lol.
Not sure of the logistics required to solicit professional direction over the internet. You pay member 'xxx' and hope you get what you're hoping for?
A menu board sticky...?
Diff rates based on pro member..?
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Yes, those are generated based on the drawing. I'm pretty sure the dimensions are set to 1/32" precision. If I recall correctly, I drew the centerline of the pocket and offset it 2 1/4" to each side. Then I drew the inside face of the pocket from the intersection of the nose of the cushion and my offset line at the 51 or 141 degree angle. Then I offset the face .2 of an inch for the facing. I can't do anything with it right now but I'll try to look at it tomorrow. The facing should extend the nose of the cushion .318". If I get a chance I will add a couple of dimensions to clarify and change them to decimal. I believe in post #99, your facing is set 39 degrees from perpendicular, it should be 51. The .2188 width represented on my drawing is measured in the direction of the points of the pocket, 45 degrees from the length of the rail.
MamboFats
Active member
I am thankful for all the knowledge that passes by, thanks to all: the Pro's and experts, the DIY-guys and all others.
In my quest to build my own dreamtable, each bit of information is absorbed by my sponge brain ;-) so I can become knowledgable on this subject.
The stories on angles, depths, cushion heights and so on is fascinating to me and I respect each opinion.
Each idea of someone else has the potential to make me do a u-turn in my design.
To call this a quest is really the best word.
Living in Belgium (small country, only 11 million people), I know most pool table mechanics by name and some are personal friends.
I don't want to take business away from them, but they know I'll never be able to buy a commercial product as my dream table.
For all the special table parts (pocket liners, rubbers, slate) I need in my build they will/are contacted. I'm not ordering from an anonymous webshop, I'm ordering with a friend.
So again, thanks to all ...
In my quest to build my own dreamtable, each bit of information is absorbed by my sponge brain ;-) so I can become knowledgable on this subject.
The stories on angles, depths, cushion heights and so on is fascinating to me and I respect each opinion.
Each idea of someone else has the potential to make me do a u-turn in my design.
To call this a quest is really the best word.
Living in Belgium (small country, only 11 million people), I know most pool table mechanics by name and some are personal friends.
I don't want to take business away from them, but they know I'll never be able to buy a commercial product as my dream table.
For all the special table parts (pocket liners, rubbers, slate) I need in my build they will/are contacted. I'm not ordering from an anonymous webshop, I'm ordering with a friend.
So again, thanks to all ...
dendweller
Well-known member
Yeah, that's a tough one. I use free software, such as LibreOffice. I have a number of computers and rebuild the OSs on occasion. When I grab LibreOffice it will give me the opportunity to donate to their foundation and normally I will. Not a lot, 10 bucks or something but it's part of what keeps them afloat and creating good software so I don't have to buy MS office for lots of $.
But you're right, they don't have to give out the info and some don't.
I think RKC got pretty deep on this one. Of all the threads I've read on rail rebuilding this one is definitely the most comprehensive with the tools he uses, doesn't cut with miter saw, uses sanding blade on miter saw to finish instead. Also how he calculates effective pocket size etc. Stuff I wouldn't of thought of for sure.
That, along with your play by play as you've tried stuff and learned has made this a great thread for anyone interested in the subject for sure.
There's that confusion I was hoping to avoid. I doubled back on a couple of posts to attempt to clear the air but maybe I didn't do so adequately. I'll run through it again. Yes, there was a little flip flopping on the use of those two values. Below I'll show why the value of 39 got into the mix.
Apologies for the use of paint, but I don't have any type of drawing package on my laptop.
So the pink band is the cushion, and the face of the rail that will be referenced to my mitersaw when the rails are mitered. I will be setting the saw to 51 degrees to make said miter. When calculating the facing cross section at the resulting angle you need to use the value of 39, not 51.
Now what happened was I was thinking of the 141 angle as a part of an arc containing 180 degrees. The 0 point was the center of the pocket and 180 being the cushion face. Clocking 'clockwise' (generally the path degrees advance) to 141 meant a 39 degree move. Dimensionally speaking, this is just as accurate as your 0 point being perpendicular to the cushion face and clocking 'counter-clockwise' by 51 degrees (shown above). The difference is having a workable angle to use on your mitersaw.
However where my initial use of 39 falls short is when I went to calculate the facing cross sectional width. By using 39 for the pocket miter. I ended up using the incorrect value of 51 for the right angle triangle calculator. This was just a mental slip, nothing more.
So hopefully, this puts this pocket miter angle to bed. Pocket should be cut 51 degrees from perpendicular from cushion face. Facing cross sectional width should be determined using the remaining 39 degrees.
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Yes, he's been very helpful. Hopefully I have conveyed my appreciation adequately.
It is very interesting to see that even the tippy top pros use varying methods. The pics I posted way back that show the use of the miter saw to cut the miters were taken from a predominant rail mechanic's FB page. What I gleened from those pics was the method I had intended on using until Glen flat out told me it was a mistake to do so. Now that said, maybe those pics were just rough cut and the secondary step of sanding to finish hadn't been shown. Regards, Glen took the time to steer me away from a potentially costly mistake.
Unfortunately the thread "title" doesn't reflect the good info posted.
coolidge
Well-known member
Maybe the mods should retitle and sticky the thread. Or @realkingcobra could write a book on the subject. RKC add that to the other 140 items on your to-do list, no pressure.
I think the thread title is perfecty fine and depicts the content and it's collection as accurately as one could.
I prefer not to entertain the lazy. The search function on the forum will provide hits to this thread and it's content if the lurker makes the slightest effort to use it.
Did you get an opportunity to measure up your pocket angles...?