8paulbreak
New member
So I am currently helping with a league and we are switching from using a standard ruleset authored by a larger organization which I would prefer leaving out of the conversation for now, and move to our own rules. We feel there are some areas of improvements with how they are now, and leaves too much up for debate. We are currently in discussion with the "state" of ball in hand and how we can remove the argument(s) players tend to have. While thinking about this, keep in mind all other league rules are still in motion and we still use all the general rules of the game.
Firstly, it's worth mentioning that with the current rules, a player must call anything non-obvious, and while that rule has enough problems in itself, I would rather not have a discussion about what an 'obvious' shot is and for people reading to just go off your idea of what would need to be called or not. What we are hoping to explain has nothing to do with the shot itself, only the fact that some shots would be considered a foul (slop) if not called and some wouldn't.
That being said, we play ball-in-hand for the opponent after a foul. For those who don't know, ball-in-hand gives the player freedom to place the cueball anywhere on the playing surface. As the title states, band-in-hand typically means a player places the cue ball with their hand to line the shot up. For minor adjustments, players have been known to adjust the cue ball slightly using their shaft on top of the cue ball and rolling it into place. Nothing wrong with this method of using the shaft currently, however, if a player using this method does any of the following, it is considered a foul;
So here's what we are thinking, if a player could move the cue ball however they want with their hand, why should the cue be any different? Players should be allowed to do whatever they want with the cue ball in terms of legal placement, however, they must call next shot. They can use the tip, shaft, hand, ferrule, whatever they want to place the cue ball, even take a practice stroke at the cue ball, cause in the end, if players can do the same thing now, just needs to be with their hand what difference does it make if it's with the cue stick? Some may ask, well how do we know what difference between a stroke for their shot or not? That's where the calling the shot comes into play, so for whoever is watching can know once an object ball is contacted with the cueball (from a legal stroke), the intention was for the called ball to be pocketed. It would be the exact same thing as having band-in-hand while shooting the 8-ball legally, aside from the whole winning the game thing.
Lastly, we found reason to believe that there's no obvious shot when a player has ball in hand, in which case would need to be called either way, but that's just a supporter for now.
The ruling would say, 'players with ball-in-hand must call their next shot', and would eliminate the entire multi-section ruling for ball-in-hand placement.
Would love to hear what you guys think, or if anyone can think of a situation where this wouldn't work?
Thanks!
Paul
Firstly, it's worth mentioning that with the current rules, a player must call anything non-obvious, and while that rule has enough problems in itself, I would rather not have a discussion about what an 'obvious' shot is and for people reading to just go off your idea of what would need to be called or not. What we are hoping to explain has nothing to do with the shot itself, only the fact that some shots would be considered a foul (slop) if not called and some wouldn't.
That being said, we play ball-in-hand for the opponent after a foul. For those who don't know, ball-in-hand gives the player freedom to place the cueball anywhere on the playing surface. As the title states, band-in-hand typically means a player places the cue ball with their hand to line the shot up. For minor adjustments, players have been known to adjust the cue ball slightly using their shaft on top of the cue ball and rolling it into place. Nothing wrong with this method of using the shaft currently, however, if a player using this method does any of the following, it is considered a foul;
- show any forward motion with their cue stick,
- touch the tip of the cue with the cue ball (not specifically our rule but what most players go by)
So here's what we are thinking, if a player could move the cue ball however they want with their hand, why should the cue be any different? Players should be allowed to do whatever they want with the cue ball in terms of legal placement, however, they must call next shot. They can use the tip, shaft, hand, ferrule, whatever they want to place the cue ball, even take a practice stroke at the cue ball, cause in the end, if players can do the same thing now, just needs to be with their hand what difference does it make if it's with the cue stick? Some may ask, well how do we know what difference between a stroke for their shot or not? That's where the calling the shot comes into play, so for whoever is watching can know once an object ball is contacted with the cueball (from a legal stroke), the intention was for the called ball to be pocketed. It would be the exact same thing as having band-in-hand while shooting the 8-ball legally, aside from the whole winning the game thing.
Lastly, we found reason to believe that there's no obvious shot when a player has ball in hand, in which case would need to be called either way, but that's just a supporter for now.
The ruling would say, 'players with ball-in-hand must call their next shot', and would eliminate the entire multi-section ruling for ball-in-hand placement.
Would love to hear what you guys think, or if anyone can think of a situation where this wouldn't work?
Thanks!
Paul
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