Statement from The Legends of Pocket Billiards

[kling&allen]

To clear up some confusion, the photos of logical table are his home table, not the 714 table.

Yes, but logical's table is a 5" table that measures 5.25 using computer tools. Same as iusedtoberich--5 inch that measures 5.25 using computer tools. A photo of the legends table that measures 5.25 inch using computer tools doesn't tell us anything. That is, if the Legends table was 5", it would probably measure 5.25 using the computer tools because of same parallax we see in all these pocket photos.

I imagine we would hear Earl or SVB squawking if the table was that abnormal?

 

[logical]

Yeah, I thought it was 5-3/8, but I was giving the benefit of the doubt on the tighter side. If anyone here was to claim the 714 table was 5-3/8”, a number of posters here might absolutely lose it - the same ones who’ve been drinking the kool-aid on the 5” pockets claim.

I see what you are saying. I had lined it up that way and maybe shifted or took the picture from inboard of the pocket. Plus one facing isn't really very straight. I will take more time in the morning but I think they are really no more than 5 1/8.

This really isn't about my table though is it.

I'm more interested in the shenanigans with this area that was pointed out by RKC.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisinNC]

Yes, but logical's table is a 5" table that measures 5.25 using computer tools. Same as iusedtoberich--5 inch that measures 5.25 using computer tools. A photo of the legends table that measures 5.25 inch using computer tools doesn't tell us anything. That is, if the Legends table was 5", it would probably measure 5.25 using the computer tools because of same parallax we see in all these pocket photos.

I imagine we would hear Earl or SVB squawking if the table was that abnormal?

So did Logical confirm when he actually laid a ruler across the mouth points that it shows exactly 5 inches as opposed to the 5-3/8 inches it appears superimposed using the computer tools? Yes, that is interesting and it’s very curious where the 3/8” error comes from?

 

[logical]

So did he confirm when he actually laid a ruler across the mouth points that it shows exactly 5 inches as opposed to the 5-3/8 inches it appears superimposed using the computer tools? Yes, that is interesting and it’s very curious where the 3/8” error comes from?

The issue was that my pic made it look as if the 5 inches was partially inside the theoretical opening. The cushions are not dead straight or perfect sharp corners. I concede it might be just over 5 inches.

Here's a crazy idea...somebody go measure and document the 714 table.

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[iusedtoberich]

The issue was that my pic made it look as if the 5 inches was partially inside the theoretical opening. The cushions are not dead straight or perfect sharp corners.

Here's a crazy idea...somebody go measure and document the 714 table.

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I think on most tables, especially ones with older facings, the facing won't be straight. Also there is always a radius where the long surface of the rail turns into the pocket facing, even if brand new. In all the rule books I've seen, they don't make it clear with a picture where to measure the mouth at. In engineering drawings, a situation like this would list the "theoretical sharp" of the two radii as the measurement points. But in pool tables, I don't see any mention of this, leaving a lot of ambiguity. IMO

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Yes, but logical's table is a 5" table that measures 5.25 using computer tools. Same as iusedtoberich--5 inch that measures 5.25 using computer tools. A photo of the legends table that measures 5.25 inch using computer tools doesn't tell us anything. That is, if the Legends table was 5", it would probably measure 5.25 using the computer tools because of same parallax we see in all these pocket photos.

Here's the Legends table pic (I think) that started the controversy about pocket facing angles. You can see why - it sure looks like the pocket's throat is wider than its mouth. As we've seen, these pics can't be trusted for accuracy, but it's easy to see why the question arises.

pj
chgo

 

[ChrisinNC]

Here's a crazy idea...somebody go measure and document the 714 table.

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Exactly what we’ve been saying all along and what the organizers have refused to do, or if they have, they haven’t shown any need to want to release it – makes you wonder why?

 

[ChrisinNC]

Here's the Legends table pic (I think) that started the controversy about pocket angles. You can see why - it sure looks like the pocket's throat is wider than its mouth. As we've seen, these pics can't be trusted for accuracy, but it's easy to see why the question arises.

pj
chgo

View attachment 626154

Also, if you take a close look at the photo, where the middle finger on his left hand is touching the line of the nose of the cushion heading towards the pocket mouth point, it’s quite obvious that the caliper point was not being held right at the mouth, but somewhat further back in the pocket than the mouth. Could this have also been photo distortion, or a blatant attempt to misrepresent the true mouth measurements? Only the organizers know.

Something else is also unquestionably really strange about that photo. The ruler makes it appear the inside points of the pocket liner are 5+ inches wide, whereas most inside edges of pocket liners are more like 4 1/4 inches, 4 inches on Diamonds. I’m not sure what they are on Gold crowns 3’s, but I can’t imagine much more than 4 1/4” and certainly nothing close to the 5 inches it appears in this photo.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Pocket billiard tables: pocket openings are measured at two points - the first being measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (tip to tip). This is called the mouth. The second point of measurement is at the narrowest point at the back of the facing. This is called the throat.

I read that. It is ambiguous. A drawing with a radius (which all pockets have) would clear it up.

 

[Dead Money]

In recent years, I can hardly think of a topic discussed on here where hardly anyone agreed with RKC and the abrasive way he comes across, despite most us attesting to his skills and experience regarding pool table setups, etc.

As far as this issue, RKC was the first one to question the size of the pockets as being unusually large. Since then, due to the way Lou (representing the organizers of this effort) has come across so defensively and secretively, in addition to the screenshot evidence of the pockets from this table, there is clearly a growing number of us, including myself, that have been asking for transparency and honesty regarding these pockets. Yet there is still unbelievable resistance from Lou, who is likely being told how to handle this by the organizers.

I stand by every statement I have made on this issue over the last five days, and I’ve tried to do so while maintaining respect and composure in all my responses, as hard as that has sometimes been when I see what I believe to be a complete cover-up. I’m interested to see how this all plays out, but just hoping that whoever certifies this run from the BCA takes a good look at the pocket specs, just like we have, before they make their determination.

I respect the fact that you own your words.

RKC did not use his table mechanic skills and savant like ability to point out the pockets were a bit bigger than normal and educate us Plebs to it. What he did do was create a massive negative shit storm and sucked many into it...myself included for a few posts. I admit I was not my best self for a few posts! >>lol- Depends He has been unpleasant and relentless telling us the obvious- the pockets are friendly and he thinks all of this sucks.

The concept of friendlier pockets for the record runs was made clear from the start. Anyone who has played on more than a few pool tables in their life could see it instantly in pictures and video too.

After seeing how Jayson Shaw played and got his 14.1 tightened up over time I think he could put up a circus number on a regular Diamond or Gold Crown. Some of the other champs too. 714+ on that challenge table or another again? I do not know...that was a very determined talented guy who dug deep and had a magic moment. I would love to see him or another do it!

How Lou and Bobby have handled this was their choice to make. This challenge has been great fun to watch live and I will be ready for the next player.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Also, if you take a close look at the photo, where the middle finger on his left hand is touching the line of the nose of the cushion heading towards the pocket mouth point, it’s quite obvious that the caliper point was not being held right at the mouth, but somewhat further back in the pocket than the mouth. Could this have also been photo distortion, or a blatant attempt to misrepresent the true mouth measurements? Only the organizers know.

That looks innocent to me - doesn’t look like a significant difference.

pj
chgo

 

[Dead Money]

I’ve read this whole thread and the others.

You spout more “verbal diarrhea” than anyone except RKC.

Congratulations.

You’re going to stink up other threads that don’t even have anything to do with this with your asinine comments about this like I jus saw in the Bigfoot thread. WTF!

No hidden agenda with you? You’re pretty obsessed with this, way too obsessed.

Your customers have their hands full with you getting in their business like you stated you can’t win a argument with a few of them.
Why the hell argue with your customers in the first place?
Oh, they might have ate a French fry too close to one of your 10 tables



Anyway…obviously…the pockets look like 5”

Ya don't just bust hustlers lol!

 

[kling&allen]

Here's the Legends table pic (I think) that started the controversy about pocket angles. You can see why - it sure looks like the pocket's throat is wider than its mouth. As we've seen, these pics can't be trusted for accuracy, but it's easy to see why the question arises.

pj
chgo

View attachment 626154

Yeah that's a weird perspective for sure where the throat looks wider than the mouth. But the photo from the other direction (from the podcast) doesn't have this same skew (throat is clearly smaller than mouth).

Here's logical's standard 5" GC rotated to the same angle, although his wasn't taken from across the table:

I don't think any of these photos can be used to differentiate between 5" and 5.25" pockets.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't think any of these photos can be used to differentiate between 5" and 5.25" pockets.

Yeah, or whether facing angles are too easy.

I don’t much care about the high run record or who holds it. But I do think pocket specs are relevant and should be either standardized or routinely disclosed (probably both).

I also think the Legends guys might be mishandling this question a little, but it’s not a big deal to me - I’m enjoying the show.

pj
chgo

 

[HawaiianEye]

Yeah, or whether facing angles are too easy.

I don’t much care about the high run record or who holds it. But I do think pocket specs are relevant and should be either standardized or routinely disclosed (probably both).

I also think the Legends guys might be mishandling this question a little, but it’s not a big deal to me - I’m enjoying the show.

pj
chgo

I don't care if he ran 7, 14, 714, or 7014, the table played LOOSE and NUMEROUS balls were made during his many attempts that would NEVER go on the majority of standard Gold Crowns.

He was hitting balls on the long rails a diamond and a half down from the corner pockets and they were being easily gobbled up.

To run 714 is a remarkable feat on any table, but to claim that the table was not "enhanced" in order to make higher runs more easily achievable is total bullshit.

 

[realkingcobra]

I still think the withholding of the #’s was due to RKC’s belligerence in the beginning thread about this endeavor. And once they took a stand to not show another picture from a different angle or give the deets that was that. Any caving in to pressure would be caving.

The picture going around with two balls has been called “jayson’s picture” a few times. He did not post that pic but it’s a still frame taken from a video where he put the balls in haphazardly and said they’re buckets during a podcast.

I don’t know shit all about camera angle distortion and stuff but the camera was looking from other end of the table (from the pocket in question), straight ahead. Someone took a screen shot and that’s being analyzed and considered concrete conclusive evidence of 5 1/4” pockets.

I don’t know. Just laying out some stuff

I think you need to go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read who first, second, and third brought up the question about the size of the pockets Nd ask for the specs! I wasn't me buddy!

 

[realkingcobra]

Hell, Jayson would run 1500 on that. This table would have pocket like the one Mosconi did 526 on.

Does that mean John can have a crack at that 714 on the SAME table Jayson played on?

 

[realkingcobra]

Here's the Legends table pic (I think) that started the controversy about pocket facing angles. You can see why - it sure looks like the pocket's throat is wider than its mouth. As we've seen, these pics can't be trusted for accuracy, but it's easy to see why the question arises.

pj
chgo

View attachment 626154

Pay attention to where the calipers are measuring the pocket opening, then under his fingers look for the cushion nose, you can clearly see the calipers are INSIDE of the pocket by at least a 1/4" from the point of the pocket.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Pay attention to where the calipers are measuring the pocket opening, then under his fingers look for the cushion nose, you can clearly see the calipers are INSIDE of the pocket by at least a 1/4" from the point of the pocket.

I think that would only make a difference of maybe 1/16” in the mouth width, even less if the facingle angles are wide. I don’t see much of an issue there.

pj
chgo

 

[HawaiianEye]

Creating table conditions in order to enhance the chances of balls going into the pockets reminds me of blocking bowling lanes.

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