Attention Jay Helfert. Got a question for you.

CanadianGuy said:
Gwynn was a one trick pony

Ted Williams.....lol, who knows, doubt anybody here saw him, same for Worst

The kid was probably the best ball player ever without peer

Ceuelemans past his prime was beating a prime Blohmdahl....nuff said
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I saw Worst play a couple of times in Bensingers ( Chi) before i went in the Army and was told he was REAL good, in all candor i was too ignorant to recognize his greatness
 
Fatboy said:
I ain’t as old as Jay, but I’ve been around pro pool since 85. The last 15 years I been super close to pro pool. I’m not a pro, but I been in and around pro pool deeper than most non-pro’s. Not bragging just describing what I’ve seen and learned.

Imo the guys who played the best then would be the best now and vice versa. We don’t know who the best player ever was. It’s not clear the balls roll funny for everyone. (Sounds familiar?) it’s because it’s true.

There are a couple “kids” right now that are part of the all-time best player conversation. Filler & Gorst. The rest of those young guys are playing for 2nd. Like when Segal was king or Johnny or SVB. Or Miz.

I date back to 85 so I can’t go much before Segal without guessing at it. But what I saw, lived and who I know on a personal level has allowed me to speak very intelligently about Segal to JA to SVB, I know those 3 all personally, they know me the same. I call they answer and they call me-socially. Being around and knowing them I learned lots about pool you won’t see on Accustats or espn or YouTube. I don’t know Earl, but we have spoke over the years. Met most pros. I’ve been lucky to meet them and be friends with some. I’m the worst player in the room, that’s ok. I dont pretend to be something I’m not. I don’t mention it much as I respect their privacy. I can talk about pool and do with out name dropping. I did here for a reason. Credibility, that’s all.

The young guys now who are ultra elite gifted are no more or less gifted.

Can’t compare era’s. But I believe the elite would still be the elite and then there’s the rest.
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I agree with all you said here.
There's one thing in my mind that sticks out when it comes to the greats.
Ceulemans for most of his career won his Championships with and average of 1.50 give or take. Nobody could beat him in the long game.. 50points. Then comes the shorter games like best 3 of 5 to 15points. Point is he was so good they changed the game to accommodate everyone else.

Then came Blomdahl with his crazy style, shots, and averages in the stratosphere. It was rumored that Ceulemans was retiring a few years later after the new crew of young punks took over the helm. Zaneti, Sanchez, Caudron, Blomdahl .....
Then I think it was 2000 when Ceulemans came back and won the World Championship for his last time with an average of over 2.00.

Here you have a guy that forced a change in the game, was considered washed up and out, and raises his game to come back to beat everyone in a World Championship.

It's like the era of Gibson, Koufax and all those great pitchers that caused the lowering of the mound.
 
3kushn said:
I agree with all you said here.
There's one thing in my mind that sticks out when it comes to the greats.
Ceulemans for most of his career won his Championships with and average of 1.50 give or take. Nobody could beat him in the long game.. 50points. Then comes the shorter games like best 3 of 5 to 15points. Point is he was so good they changed the game to accommodate everyone else.

Then came Blomdahl with his crazy style, shots, and averages in the stratosphere. It was rumored that Ceulemans was retiring a few years later after the new crew of young punks took over the helm. Zaneti, Sanchez, Caudron, Blomdahl .....
Then I think it was 2000 when Ceulemans came back and won the World Championship for his last time with an average of over 2.00.

Here you have a guy that forced a change in the game, was considered washed up and out, and raises his game to come back to beat everyone in a World Championship.

It's like the era of Gibson, Koufax and all those great pitchers that caused the lowering of the mound.
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Blomdahl and sang Lee are just amazing.
 
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3kushn said:
I agree with all you said here.
There's one thing in my mind that sticks out when it comes to the greats.
Ceulemans for most of his career won his Championships with and average of 1.50 give or take. Nobody could beat him in the long game.. 50points. Then comes the shorter games like best 3 of 5 to 15points. Point is he was so good they changed the game to accommodate everyone else.

Then came Blomdahl with his crazy style, shots, and averages in the stratosphere. It was rumored that Ceulemans was retiring a few years later after the new crew of young punks took over the helm. Zaneti, Sanchez, Caudron, Blomdahl .....
Then I think it was 2000 when Ceulemans came back and won the World Championship for his last time with an average of over 2.00.

Here you have a guy that forced a change in the game, was considered washed up and out, and raises his game to come back to beat everyone in a World Championship.

It's like the era of Gibson, Koufax and all those great pitchers that caused the lowering of the mound.
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They lowered the mound in response in response to Bob Gibson(era of 1.12) and Denny Mclaine's(31 wins) record seasons and the fact that the average BA dropped to below .240 for first time. They also returned the SZ to its 1961 size. Another insane stat: Gibson was 22-9 with 28 complete games out of 34 starts. In the games he didn't complete he was pinch-hit for meaning he was NOT removed from the mound the entire year!!
 
KRJ said:
Not true. Quite a few sluggers were clean. Heck, Frank Thomas was begging for the league to have more testing. He knew some of the roided up dudes cost him at least 2 more MVP's.
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I’m not going to argue about this.
Possibly a few didn’t. Reggie Jackson who I used to know well had “help”.

When Lenny was about to do his book release a few years ago he started a cycle of testosterone replacement therapy-guess who put the pin in him once a week?

Lenny said something and I agree with it mostly.

“Sports needs PED’s it makes people do super human things and creates more excitement for the fans. How do you think me a little runt could play centerfield? I had the power in my legs with “help” to do things nobody else my size could. These days it’s boring, no new records and all milk drinkers on the yard”.

Lenny is stronger than you can imagine, genetics helped him too.

I’m not going to get into the moral debate about PED’s. However my position on them is clear. They need to relax and let the athletes do what they need to do. Abusing PED’s is bad. But WADA is out of control with their regulatory power going unchecked. That just as bad as drugs’s

PED’s aren’t as bad as WADA.

Freedom of choice

Fatboy<——-misses being on PED’s. Opiates are 20X worse
 
Fatboy said:
I’m not going to argue about this.
Possibly a few didn’t. Reggie Jackson who I used to know well had “help”.

When Lenny was about to do his book release a few years ago he started a cycle of testosterone replacement therapy-guess who put the pin in him once a week?

Lenny said something and I agree with it mostly.

“Sports needs PED’s it makes people do super human things and creates more excitement for the fans. How do you think me a little runt could play centerfield? I had the power in my legs with “help” to do things nobody else my size could. These days it’s boring, no new records and all milk drinkers on the yard”.

Lenny is stronger than you can imagine, genetics helped him too.

I’m not going to get into the moral debate about PED’s. However my position on them is clear. They need to relax and let the athletes do what they need to do. Abusing PED’s is bad. But WADA is out of control with their regulatory power going unchecked. That just as bad as drugs’s

PED’s aren’t as bad as WADA.

Freedom of choice

Fatboy<——-misses being on PED’s. Opiates are 20X worse
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Yet, you will argue anyways ;) lol

Frank Thomas, Jim Thome and many others were NOT on the juice. Franks thighs were bigger than both of my when he was just in high school. They had to make special pants for him to wear on the field. He was a monster than and nothing changed.

Jim Thome was just a big ole strong country boy. He once told a reporter his whole family is "big". He said his sister was bigger than him. But were a LOT using. Absolutely. And most true baseball fans don't miss it at all. The dingers are still there without the drugs. I'm fine if I never see a 70 HR season again. That's not baseball, it's just a home run derby.

The fact that Lenny thinks nobody is doing anything special today means only two things. He doesn't watch baseball anymore and he's still on the juice ;)
 
KRJ said:
Yet, you will argue anyways ;) lol

Frank Thomas, Jim Thome and many others were NOT on the juice. Franks thighs were bigger than both of my when he was just in high school. They had to make special pants for him to wear on the field. He was a monster than and nothing changed.

Jim Thome was just a big ole strong country boy. He once told a reporter his whole family is "big". He said his sister was bigger than him. But were a LOT using. Absolutely. And most true baseball fans don't miss it at all. The dingers are still there without the drugs. I'm fine if I never see a 70 HR season again. That's not baseball, it's just a home run derby.

The fact that Lenny thinks nobody is doing anything special today means only two things. He doesn't watch baseball anymore and he's still on the juice ;)
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Frank was genetically gifted. He was amazing.

Im Not arguing-far to lazy and it’s water under the bridge.

Steroids are fun! Lol

Best
Fatboy
 
Fatboy said:
Frank was genetically gifted. He was amazing.

Im Not arguing-far to lazy and it’s water under the bridge.

Steroids are fun! Lol

Best
Fatboy
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Yeah, and Bonds is still not in the HOF because of them. And that itself crushes him. Which makes it all worth it ;) lol
 
KRJ said:
Yeah, and Bonds is still not in the HOF because of them. And that itself crushes him. Which makes it all worth it ;) lol
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Neither is Pete Rose, he’s a fun guy to hang out with. He was living in Vegas for a long time.
 
Fatboy said:
Neither is Pete Rose, he’s a fun guy to hang out with. He was living in Vegas for a long time.
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I have no problem with that either ;) I saw Pete Rose hawking autographs at a card table outside a casino (on the street, not on casino property). I was there for BCA Nationals about 20 years ago. My buddies and I spoke with Rose for a few minutes. He was a pathetic human being even before I learned he was banging underage girls at spring training. We just laughed at him and refused to pay $20 for his autograph. lol
 
KRJ said:
I have no problem with that either ;) I saw Pete Rose hawking autographs at a card table outside a casino (on the street, not on casino property). I was there for BCA Nationals about 20 years ago. My buddies and I spoke with Rose for a few minutes. He was a pathetic human being even before I learned he was banging underage girls at spring training. We just laughed at him and refused to pay $20 for his autograph. lol
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Yea that’s when I knew him lol
 
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KRJ said:
Yeah, and Bonds is still not in the HOF because of them. And that itself crushes him. Which makes it all worth it ;) lol
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He's not in the HOF because the old farts that vote for the HOF are butt hurt that he broke Aaron's record.

And another thing. Why is it that these members that vote for the HOF are allowed to keep their ballot private? Many make them public, but the old coots need secrecy.

Yes, I am bitter about Bonds and Clemens not being elected into the HOF.
 
WGDave said:
He's not in the HOF because the old farts that vote for the HOF are butt hurt that he broke Aaron's record.

And another thing. Why is it that these members that vote for the HOF are allowed to keep their ballot private? Many make them public, but the old coots need secrecy.

Yes, I am bitter about Bonds and Clemens not being elected into the HOF.
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ain't happening in our lifetime, get over it or live with it
 
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