Practice - Make Sure you have Structure

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BarTableMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just a thought. If you practice shots and drills for 30 years with wrong form, you get a little better but pretty much stay at the same level. Reminds me of all the "serious" league players that I see shooting drills and their handicap has stayed the same for ever.

If you want to get better, you have to have help. Books and YouTube videos will get you so far because there is a limit.

Once I found a friend who was much better to "fix" all my issues...that's when real jumps in skill begin.

(Just a note: watch snooker videos for proper form...not Pro pool players. Pro pool players are all over the place and have natural superstar talent.)
 
Well back when I first started playing Pool there was little information available to learn from. You had to lean by watching good players, then figure out what they were doing.

Fast forward today you have U-Tube, Books, DVDs.

But people still hate to practice, many thing a New Cue, Different Tips or some gizmo will make you world class.

Those who play Cue Sport well invest time, and practice in their game.

Local guy is very good teacher, he gives lessons, most of what he drills student in is building good fundamentals foundation.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well back when I first started playing Pool there was little information available to learn from. You had to lean by watching good players, then figure out what they were doing.

Fast forward today you have U-Tube, Books, DVDs.

But people still hate to practice, many thing a New Cue, Different Tips or some gizmo will make you world class.

Those who play Cue Sport well invest time, and practice in their game.

Local guy is very good teacher, he gives lessons, most of what he drills student in is building good fundamentals foundation.
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Who is that local instructor you’re referring to? I could use a lesson.
 
I agree with whoever said “Watch snooker players”. Try to copy those dudes best you can.
 
easy-e said:
It sounds made up. Why wouldn’t you name him if he is good? Help the guy get some business.
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Because if you do not know it your problem, surly you can ask in the rooms, bars you frequent. Also why would I help you went your constantly talking trash?


Maybe you need to repent. LOL
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Because if you do not know it your problem, surly you can ask in the rooms, bars you frequent. Also why would I help you went your constantly talking trash?


Maybe you need to repent. LOL
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You brought the instructor up, not me. I’ve paid for lessons from several people and would love to take more. I think you’re full of crap and just pretend there is some magical instructor out here helping people. Whether you believe it or not, I’m far more plugged into the pool scene out here than you are. No such instructor exists in this area and you know it.
 
easy-e said:
You brought the instructor up, not me. I’ve paid for lessons from several people and would love to take more. I think you’re full of crap and just pretend there is some magical instructor out here helping people. Whether you believe it or not, I’m far more plugged into the pool scene out here than you are. No such instructor exists in this area and you know it.
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Try Jerry Briesath . Phoenix.
I can personally recommend him. Two days with Jerry raised my game more than I had done on my own in 20 years.
 
BarTableMan said:
Just a thought. If you practice shots and drills for 30 years with wrong form, you get a little better but pretty much stay at the same level. Reminds me of all the "serious" league players that I see shooting drills and their handicap has stayed the same for ever.

If you want to get better, you have to have help. Books and YouTube videos will get you so far because there is a limit.

Once I found a friend who was much better to "fix" all my issues...that's when real jumps in skill begin.

(Just a note: watch snooker videos for proper form...not Pro pool players. Pro pool players are all over the place and have natural superstar talent.)
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Great post but be careful about generalizations. Let's start with one of the most fundamental truths about playing great pool:

Great pool playing = great decision making + great execution

As for the decision-making part, you are far better off watching elite pool players than elite snooker players. In addition, are you smart enough to watch the right players when it comes to this part of the game? You'll learn more about tactical decision making and shot design watching a Reyes, Orcullo or Pagulyan than if you watch almost anybody else. Want to study safety play? You'll do well to watch Justin Bergman matches. As for pattern building, you can't do better than studying the play of Souquet, but did you know that? Any time you are studying a certain aspect of shot design, study players who excel in that area. If you don't know who they are, you can ask right here on the forum.

As for execution, however, what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Practicing doing things the wrong way may enable you to make minor gains in speed control and execution, but it won't bring you big gains. For years, I've watched players play against the ghost over and over without improving significantly because they continued to misplay the patterns. For big gains in execution, you need to fully break down and refine your process and having the right instructor will save you a whole lot of time.

Not many are sufficiently dedicated to improving both their decision-making skills and their execution skills, and many go about one or both the wrong way.

Sounds like you get it.
 
Often I see the same players show up several days a week, just to play matches, they are really not very good players- fair, but not really "good". Yet they just continue to do the same things wrong over and over again and wonder why so much playing does not result in improvement,

Most of their problems with improvement lie in stroke performance inconsistencies.

If you cannot afford, or have access to "proper" personal instructors then buy Mark Wilson's "Play great Pool", invest in a tripod to hold your I phone, read the book twice, understand it, and spend several hours a week video yourself as you learn to execute your stroke as he explains in the book, religiously review your videos so that you continuously correct any stroke flaws.

Within one year you will be a player that you never imagined you could be if you do this all correctly, with great discipline, and with proper time devotion to the book, the practice, and the self reviews and corrections.

I will add, as SJM states, couple this religious devotion to Mark's words with viewing, as much as possible, the names he mentioned so that you actually SEE the best doing what you are trying to emulate. Once you begin to see yourself changing, improving, add the third leg to this improvement plan and get involved in tournament competition where you will be tested and become" battle ready" with your new stroke and your new level of confidence.

Create your own "pool school" in this manner and significant improvement is guaranteed!
 
I always dreamed of having my own table and expected that once I finally did, my skill level would skyrocket.

I finally got my first table about a year and a half ago. I had always planned/expected to practice like I never had before. I bought a few books. Started reading/practicing Capelle's Practicing Pool. A little over a year in, I'm still at around page 80 (where I was about a week after I started :) )

I find myself just pouring myself a scotch/bourbon and banging balls. I love it - one of my favourite things in the world TBH. But I don't know that I'm much better than I was a year and a half ago. Obviously table time alone helps, so I'm getting a bit more consistent I suppose, but I don't think I "know" much more than I did. Starting to feel like I want to try to "level up" again.

Any tips/tricks to get me started and keep me going? I have a decent setup with GoPro over the table, tripod if necessary (not sure what to look for if I ever did record myself), TV to watch videos, etc...
 
Hoogaar said:
I always dreamed of having my own table and expected that once I finally did, my skill level would skyrocket.

I finally got my first table about a year and a half ago. I had always planned/expected to practice like I never had before. I bought a few books. Started reading/practicing Capelle's Practicing Pool. A little over a year in, I'm still at around page 80 (where I was about a week after I started :) )

I find myself just pouring myself a scotch/bourbon and banging balls. I love it - one of my favourite things in the world TBH. But I don't know that I'm much better than I was a year and a half ago. Obviously table time alone helps, so I'm getting a bit more consistent I suppose, but I don't think I "know" much more than I did. Starting to feel like I want to try to "level up" again.

Any tips/tricks to get me started and keep me going? I have a decent setup with GoPro over the table, tripod if necessary (not sure what to look for if I ever did record myself), TV to watch videos, etc...
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Play someone slightly above your speed, play them for "something" and see how you do as opposed to previously.
 
About 20 years ago a got a lesson from Scott Lee it was to be 2 hours it lasted 5 . It was video taped on tape , tape ran out after 2 hours.
The lesson had definite structure to it & was told to do it in order. Currently can’t locate the tape & don’t know if I have a working vcr if I do.
After a couple weeks my game definitely went up as others told me . It was the biggest jump in improvement I’d ever had & it was the best $100 I’d ever spent.
The last couple hours of the instruction reviled a couple 2/3 rail diamond based kicking systems that were incredibly simple & accurate.
I need to look for that tape!
It’s too bad the kicking systems weren’t on that tape. I’ve forgot some of the elements of that lesson & would like to revisit it to pass it along to a few others.

Long winded reply to : practice needs structure
 
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I am gonna tell a story, sad but true. The Peter Principle applies to everything you do. That includes pool. All of the information is out there for everyone to play at world class level. Very very few have the desire to put in the hard work to reach their best. If they do, then a coach or mentor to guide them can be a big help. Most reach a certain level then no matter what they do, movement is almost entirely lateral. They have breakthrough after breakthrough, great lessons on top of great lessons, but a few years down the road they are playing at the same level they were. In the local pool of players the same ones still beat them, they still beat the same ones. There are the few shooting stars that soar through the ranks but they are the exceptional few fractions of one percent, not the ninety-nine percent plus of players.

The biggest issue is seeking shortcuts when there aren't any to be had. The most direct route is hard work and dedication. If there were a "magic pill" thousands would be playing with the very best. Looking at fargo ratings, I see less than a hundred in the world with a likelihood of winning a world class event, in the US less than a dozen. If we accept there are five or ten players without a fargo rating for every one that has one at the elite levels that is still far less than one percent of the people that desire to be world class that get there.

Many years ago I talked to a man that was still young and competing at the top level with a few world championships under his belt. He had written a how-to book. My personal opinion, the book was mostly pap with little value. One evening he was talking and admitted that the book came about because he saw others getting respect and a few bucks from the books they wrote. He said the truth was he didn't know why he was at the skill level of the elite handful rather than the much larger group of people right below that skill level, he just did it. Talent, other physical gifts, a greater focus, he didn't know. In his own words, he just did it. His book was a combination of what he read in other books and "just do it". No help for those looking for insight. Almost all how-to books and trainers are like that, repetitions. Very few have unique insight.

Pick something you can excel at. Work like hell. Refuse to lose. It is a simple formula.

Hu
 
I think it is very important to KNOW YOURSELF. Meaning knowing both your strengths and weaknesses. For example, I'm probably never going to be a "high level rotation player" because I don't run out enough. HOWEVER, I'm one of the BEST bankers around and "MOVE" very well which is why I play One Pocket well. My point is that FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU DO WELL AND BE THE BEST AT THAT!! That will maximize your game, in my opinion.
 
ShootingArts said:
I am gonna tell a story, sad but true. The Peter Principle applies to everything you do. That includes pool. All of the information is out there for everyone to play at world class level. Very very few have the desire to put in the hard work to reach their best. If they do, then a coach or mentor to guide them can be a big help. Most reach a certain level then no matter what they do, movement is almost entirely lateral. They have breakthrough after breakthrough, great lessons on top of great lessons, but a few years down the road they are playing at the same level they were. In the local pool of players the same ones still beat them, they still beat the same ones. There are the few shooting stars that soar through the ranks but they are the exceptional few fractions of one percent, not the ninety-nine percent plus of players.

The biggest issue is seeking shortcuts when there aren't any to be had. The most direct route is hard work and dedication. If there were a "magic pill" thousands would be playing with the very best. Looking at fargo ratings, I see less than a hundred in the world with a likelihood of winning a world class event, in the US less than a dozen. If we accept there are five or ten players without a fargo rating for every one that has one at the elite levels that is still far less than one percent of the people that desire to be world class that get there.

Many years ago I talked to a man that was still young and competing at the top level with a few world championships under his belt. He had written a how-to book. My personal opinion, the book was mostly pap with little value. One evening he was talking and admitted that the book came about because he saw others getting respect and a few bucks from the books they wrote. He said the truth was he didn't know why he was at the skill level of the elite handful rather than the much larger group of people right below that skill level, he just did it. Talent, other physical gifts, a greater focus, he didn't know. In his own words, he just did it. His book was a combination of what he read in other books and "just do it". No help for those looking for insight. Almost all how-to books and trainers are like that, repetitions. Very few have unique insight.

Pick something you can excel at. Work like hell. Refuse to lose. It is a simple formula.

Hu
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Perfectly stated! You can read all of the books that you want, but if you don’t have the drive and honesty to work on what matters the most you will stagnate.
 
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