Bring Back Hustling Culture

There are no victims unless you are talking about a dump. . As they say, "You can't cheat an honest man". The most common ploy of the hustler is to appear as the victim. That is when you see the greed come out and it isn't from the hustler.

I hope some enjoy this tale. Be warned, it is a long read!

Yes, the passive hustle is the way I played. I laid out a spread like setting out duck decoys on a pond. Nobody had to come to the pond but the lure of easy money usually got me some "customers". The lure of easy money is strong! The starting bet on challenge tables was usually small, five a game was very good. A working stiff just out to win a little or lose a little wouldn't jack the bet and wouldn't get burned too badly. Hustlers laid down and kept jacking the bet. When the bet got right, most commonly twenty a game back then, they tried to close in for the kill and their game got a lot better! Usually mine was good enough to keep winning but I could never be positive until the other player opened up his game. Two hustlers on the table, no reason for outsiders to be emotionally involved unless they knew one of them.

I loved playing pool, still do. That made every night grinding a pleasure. I started off maybe the second worse player in the US, I couldn't win more beer than I lost in bars the first six months. After that I was doing better than break even. Life was good and money games were mostly a way of keeping score.

A few times I had to make a living playing pool for three to six months at a stretch. Robbed me of all the pleasure of playing pool. In the seventies or early eighties my goal was to make a hundred a day on the road playing. At the very worst break even. I wasn't inside the loop of road players so unlike those that shared information I walked into every new place blind. I played the odds, I knew I was going to win a lot more games than I lost, field run. If I did run into a guy I couldn't beat and didn't find better action one day so that I lost money on action and expenses then I would roll those losses ahead until I made enough to cover them and the daily nut for the time in between.

There was a certain tingle when you opened the door of a place and scanned looking for likely action. Traveling there wasn't time to lay down and try to start midpack or slightly above and move slowly up the chain for days. The plan was to latch onto the person most willing to put down cash or had others wanting to back him or bet on him. Once things were over the next trick was getting out the door and down the road. That wasn't a problem every time but often enough that putting together an exit plan pretty much started as soon as you got into action. It varied place to place. First thing I did was try to find the bouncer if I was in a place that had one. If not a bouncer the biggest toughest looking man in sight. I would buy them a drink or two. Tell the bouncers that if there was trouble it would be over fast and I would be out the door. I said as sincerely as possible, "I would appreciate it if you aren't between me and the door." Put politely it usually worked. All the bouncer was going to do was throw me out on my ear anyway, better to let me leave on my own than to catch bruises and scrapes that weren't necessary.

I never was or considered myself a road player. A few days, a few weeks, and I was back home. I did pay every bill on time and cover the mortgages on my home and commercial property. I was glad when a good job came along or the local economy picked up. Pool for recreation, even a side income, was fun. As a full time business it got old quick. Thinking back on those days I am glad that I had no hostages to fortune back then. I do have to say, if I had it all to do all over again I probably would. A few regrets but more of omission than commission.

I actively hustled somebody twice as a young teen. I was told that is what pool players did and I wanted to be a pool player. It took about six months after the first time to do it again, thought I might get used to it. Both times a made a nice little score for the time, over a week's pay, but I disliked it so much I never did it again. Laying a spread? I am sure I have done that over a thousand times. Even lately when I don't gamble when the old railbirds came over to watch me play the counterman a little I went on the stall a bit. Old habits die hard!

Hu
 
Some of the criticism is earned. Part of the problem is Hollywood. They took much of the worst about pool and brought it into mainstream view. Like it or not.... and I DONT... many people seem to mix reality with fantasy based on what they see in movies or television.

I remember in the 90’s pre internet when I was in my mid 20’s I’d guess, people I’d meet would ask what my interests were. Anytime I’d mention pool they would assume I was a big drinker. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I never drank when I played pool. Bad for business.

But people associated pool with bars and drinking. I’d explain I’d go to proper pool rooms and the guys I played weren’t drinking either we were gambling.

I just gave up telling anyone I played pool. Unless I really knew them or wanted them to get to know me better.

Pool has always had a bad image. It might be better now than ever. It came from the depression and being a poor man’s sport. Who can afford golf? I couldn’t when I was a kid.

People aren’t as judgmental now as before but they are more fragile. I’ve always been secure with who I am and what I do. But when your trying to make a good impression on someone at first-I leave pool out of the conversation until they know me better. It’s a bad opener to this day.

Fatboy
 
Add poker chips to a pool event.

Structured tournament guidelines for chip betting during a match.

Betting with chips can add drama and NY legalized online gambling.
They use them at the derby bank ring game

They work great

Gambol
 
Tell the bouncers that if there was trouble it would be over fast and I would be out the door. I said as sincerely as possible, "I would appreciate it if you aren't between me and the door."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation but I kind of wonder what the bouncer was thinking. If I was a bouncer and someone said that to me I'd probably suggest they leave before trouble starts and give them a look that suggested now would be a good time for leaving. I'm probably accustomed to more genteel rooms but you have certainly suggested that your presence may lead to problems.
 
Lots of great comments here - I especially love hearing you guys' stories.
A lot of you didn't read the post I wrote, but to reiterate, I'm not talking about running cons, cheating, or sharking. I defined "hustling" as playing for stakes, so call it "stake playing" if the word "hustling" has too many negative connotations for you.
What I'm proposing would eliminate many of the things that those of you who are anti-hustling dislike about hustling: I propose clear rules, clearly-marked "cash" tables, a referee, etc. Of course there is nuance, and the details would need to be worked out to accomplish the general aim, but the point would be to eliminate the negatives, and keep the positives. A system could be devised for how to offer to spot balls, ask for balls to be spotted, etc. - I'd suggest writing everything like that down on a chalkboard.
As far as the gambling component, opposed to putting money on oneself, people already gamble on everything, and 99% of people who gamble on pull-tabs, lottery, etc. come out behind. Betting on the outcome of billiards games would be more interesting, and give better odds.
For fish like me, it would be like stepping up to a carnival booth and spending money to try to win a stuffed animal. I'd most probably lose, but it would be fun to play a skilled player who I know is actually trying to win, and maybe I'd get lucky. Meanwhile when the big dogs were playing one another, I'd have a chance to watch how these guys play when stakes are on the line, and wouldn't be the one weirdo watching their game.
To be clear, I'm not talking about making hustling ubiquitous in every bowling alley and bar - I'm talking about setting up specific places where playing for stakes would be done out in the open, and would be well-regulated to eliminate fights, robbery, cons, cheating, etc.
 
Lots of great comments here - I especially love hearing you guys' stories.
A lot of you didn't read the post I wrote, but to reiterate, I'm not talking about running cons, cheating, or sharking. I defined "hustling" as playing for stakes, so call it "stake playing" if the word "hustling" has too many negative connotations for you.
What I'm proposing would eliminate many of the things that those of you who are anti-hustling dislike about hustling: I propose clear rules, clearly-marked "cash" tables, a referee, etc. Of course there is nuance, and the details would need to be worked out to accomplish the general aim, but the point would be to eliminate the negatives, and keep the positives. A system could be devised for how to offer to spot balls, ask for balls to be spotted, etc. - I'd suggest writing everything like that down on a chalkboard.
As far as the gambling component, opposed to putting money on oneself, people already gamble on everything, and 99% of people who gamble on pull-tabs, lottery, etc. come out behind. Betting on the outcome of billiards games would be more interesting, and give better odds.
For fish like me, it would be like stepping up to a carnival booth and spending money to try to win a stuffed animal. I'd most probably lose, but it would be fun to play a skilled player who I know is actually trying to win, and maybe I'd get lucky. Meanwhile when the big dogs were playing one another, I'd have a chance to watch how these guys play when stakes are on the line, and wouldn't be the one weirdo watching their game.
To be clear, I'm not talking about making hustling ubiquitous in every bowling alley and bar - I'm talking about setting up specific places where playing for stakes would be done out in the open, and would be well-regulated to eliminate fights, robbery, cons, cheating, etc.
It would not last long. Once the establishment was implacated in running gambling, they would see theri beverage license pulled and lose their business.

I knew of a place lost their liquor license selling $1.00 football cards. . Gambling unless you didn't know is illegal in most states.
No business wants that crap going on.
 
They had a keno board in the pool room in vegas. It sat there for years catching dust.

Then one day someone got it out and they were playing $1 a roll. In a few days $2000/roll.

Someone called the Gaming Division which is real serious biz in Nevada obviously.


They almost lost their restricted license for video poker. They didn’t because it was the first violation. But you can be sure there was never a keno board there again.

Pool action continued as normal. But that was discreet.

Fatboy<———anyone seen Bucktooth?
 
What you wrote is a good read, people in the old day use to gamble on pool, gamble with bookie, or go to race track.

Think what has killed off a lot of this gambling is Indian Casino’s, and on line betting.

Know almost every night on TV I see ads for the Online Gaming joints.

Pool hustling is gone the way of many thing, because the World is changing.

People use to go to Las Vegas, Reno, Lake Tahoe, and other place in NV to gamble legally.

Now the option are more, and closer to home.
Thank you.

I agree with some of what you say, but consider this:

Some billiards halls have pull-tab booths, but few if any provide an option to bet on the outcome of billiards games.

People still bet on horse races (even though it's arguably inhumane), and people bet a lot on football games, etc. Draftkings allows you to bet on NASCAR, Golf, and four different video games (five, if you include Madden NFL).

Just about the only thing that doesn't have sanctioned betting is billiards. Wouldn't it be cool for a gambler to be able to bet on games between players who are right there in front of them playing live in their favorite billiards hall?

At a local bar tournament in my small, boring town, the tournament filled up so fast that they denied me entry. There were four pool tables, and they had 48 players competing.

BINGO is absurdly popular here - it packs bars that otherwise see about 20 customers a day, and wouldn't even see that many if not for the allure of other types of gambling.

I'm new to taking a serious interest in the sport, so I have a lot to learn, but from what I've gathered, it seems like some people in the billiards world are hell-bent on preventing the chocolate of billiards competition to mix with the peanut butter of gambling, and I think that's a huge mistake that has been a big part of what has crippled billiards as a spectator sport. Meanwhile, the Mosconi-lovers have been so successful in cleaning up the "hustler" image of pool that almost every stranger I ask to play a friendly game of pool looks at me like I'm Minnesota Fats in a skinny-suit.
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation but I kind of wonder what the bouncer was thinking. If I was a bouncer and someone said that to me I'd probably suggest they leave before trouble starts and give them a look that suggested now would be a good time for leaving. I'm probably accustomed to more genteel rooms but you have certainly suggested that your presence may lead to problems.

I had my whole presentation worked out. Quiet, polite, friendly. Told the bouncer I didn't want any trouble but if there was any it would be over quick and all I wanted was away from it. I often put a twenty in my shirt pocket too. A house cue was twelve bucks and snapping one was an attention getter. If I was having difficulty I sometimes snapped a cue and headed for the door with cue in hand. As I went by the bar or counter I would toss the twenty down. Might seem odd in today's world but I was usually welcome when I passed back through in a few weeks or months.

My whole way of handling myself got a lot better and I broke more cues in my first two years of play than in the rest of my life. Only used one, the first one. A man twice my size tried to strongarm rob me. I objected to the idea and when he came at me I snapped the cue in hand and jammed it in his face. I was a regular, he wasn't, I boogied out the door and was back three nights later with literally nothing said. A rough place in a very rough area. I might have seen a guy bleed out from knife wounds in the same place a few weeks before my incident so I knew I was on my own. Had great old ten feet long tables and I was usually the only one playing. Too, they were one of only a handful of places that would serve a fifteen year old mixed drinks no questions asked. I already went through quite a few of those.

Hu
 
It would not last long. Once the establishment was implacated in running gambling, they would see theri beverage license pulled and lose their business.

I knew of a place lost their liquor license selling $1.00 football cards. . Gambling unless you didn't know is illegal in most states.
No business wants that crap going on.
True, depending on the laws of the state and municipality.

Legislative action would be needed in a lot of places. I'd suggest offering a solution that gives the state a cut - government is greedy, and doesn't like people competing with their gambling rackets, but if you give the state a piece of the action, you can often get them onboard. Many politicians welcome new streams of state or local revenue that don't require raising taxes.

Where there's a will there is often a way - I've seen slot machines that are designed to technically be pull-tabs or BINGO cards. Heck, there's even a horse-racing video game in a nearby bar that is technically pull-tabs, for legal purposes. So if fantasy sports betting is legal in your jurisdiction, you could probably work with that. Draftkings and Fanduel are almost everywhere already.
 
Lots of great comments here - I especially love hearing you guys' stories.
A lot of you didn't read the post I wrote, but to reiterate, I'm not talking about running cons, cheating, or sharking. I defined "hustling" as playing for stakes, so call it "stake playing" if the word "hustling" has too many negative connotations for you.
What I'm proposing would eliminate many of the things that those of you who are anti-hustling dislike about hustling: I propose clear rules, clearly-marked "cash" tables, a referee, etc. Of course there is nuance, and the details would need to be worked out to accomplish the general aim, but the point would be to eliminate the negatives, and keep the positives. A system could be devised for how to offer to spot balls, ask for balls to be spotted, etc. - I'd suggest writing everything like that down on a chalkboard.
As far as the gambling component, opposed to putting money on oneself, people already gamble on everything, and 99% of people who gamble on pull-tabs, lottery, etc. come out behind. Betting on the outcome of billiards games would be more interesting, and give better odds.
For fish like me, it would be like stepping up to a carnival booth and spending money to try to win a stuffed animal. I'd most probably lose, but it would be fun to play a skilled player who I know is actually trying to win, and maybe I'd get lucky. Meanwhile when the big dogs were playing one another, I'd have a chance to watch how these guys play when stakes are on the line, and wouldn't be the one weirdo watching their game.
To be clear, I'm not talking about making hustling ubiquitous in every bowling alley and bar - I'm talking about setting up specific places where playing for stakes would be done out in the open, and would be well-regulated to eliminate fights, robbery, cons, cheating, etc.
That would be great, like the card rooms we have except for pool.
 
It would not last long. Once the establishment was implacated in running gambling, they would see theri beverage license pulled and lose their business.

I knew of a place lost their liquor license selling $1.00 football cards. . Gambling unless you didn't know is illegal in most states.
No business wants that crap going on.
Yeah..... unless you give them their cut.
 
Have you considered another sport?
I challenge you to a five-game set of 9 ball - no money involved, just for bragging rights.
Now let's change the equation:
I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is - $1000 goes to the winner of the set.
In my humble opinion, one of these challenges creates much more tension, drama, and intrigue than the other. One of those challenges is much more likely to draw interested spectators than the other.
Peanut butter: meet chocolate.
I'd actually be happy to play you, although probably not for $1000/set. Are you in Biloxi? Is there a good pool scene down there?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't have online sports betting in my state, but wasn't it possible to bet on the last Mosconi cup using some of the popular sports book apps in the US?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't have online sports betting in my state, but wasn't it possible to bet on the last Mosconi cup using some of the popular sports book apps in the US?
Maybe in certain states, but not across state lines.

Not 100% sure
 
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