Who knows what "center cue ball" control is about? Robin Dreyer knows and teaches this concept.

[markjames]

all pros and amateurs and tip installers think i am crazy but everytime i get a new tip on my cue, before it has ever had any chalk on it, i play center ball hits only for about one month- no chalk ever

and i average about 12 hours a week playing and practicing

it’s amazing what you can accomplish with no chalk

 

[straightline]

I'd go a step further and say that above, say 650-700 fargo, most players use at least a trace of spin on most of their shots. There are too many reasons to go into in detail, but for the benefit of the OP here are some of the most important:

I'd venture that as their abilities get grooved, it becomes unreliable and more of a hassle to zero out every shot. By adding or feeling english that favors the shot, they get a more tangible action and target to work with.

 

[tomatoshooter]

all pros and amateurs and tip installers think i am crazy but everytime i get a new tip on my cue, before it has ever had any chalk on it, i play center ball hits only for about one month- no chalk ever

and i average about 12 hours a week playing and practicing

it’s amazing what you can accomplish with no chalk

Yep, you're crazy.

Kidding, of course. I can definitely see that helping develop accurate cueing and speed control and helping you reinforce what can be done with very little spin.

 

[tomatoshooter]

I'd venture that as their abilities get grooved, it becomes unreliable and more of a hassle to zero out every shot. By adding or feeling english that favors the shot, they get a more tangible action and target to work with.

FWIW, Neils Feijn says the only times he doesn't use English is when he is shooting off the rail and when he needs to cinch a shot. I'm sure other guys are similar but I haven't heard them say it.

 

[straightline]

FWIW, Neils Feijn says the only times he doesn't use English is when he is shooting off the rail and when he needs to cinch a shot. I'm sure other guys are similar but I haven't heard them say it.

Watch the big matches - or any matches for that matter. The ball is always spinning. Even inconsequential and probably unintended spin on straight ins; IMO a sign of loftier concerns.

 

[jimmyg]

 

[straightline]

'Mazing

 

[ShootingArts]

That's how I feel. Virtually every player uses english on a frequent basis. Even beyond creating the position paths, the method of using english to overcome collision induced throw on cut shots has been around forever and remains in extremely common use at every level of play.

I believe that today's top players use as much english as any other generation of players, but their cueing is so accurate that their pocketing doesn't slip noticeably because of it.

I believe today's players use large amounts of spin more than any players I have seen in the last fifty years. I think skill is indeed a major factor but I think equipment comes into play a lot too. The old balls and cloth, the shape both were usually in, meant the effects of side spin were going to be larger. Like lower deflection shafts, everything about today's pool could be called "lower deflection" and more consistent.

I don't think that today's playing style would have developed without the changes in equipment. Of course the same is true of yesterday's playing style too. Horses for courses. Equipment largely dictates playing style. I am not sure how I feel about that. Mike Sigel tried to turn back the clock and found that it didn't change things a whole lot though.

Hu

 

[sjm]

I believe today's players use large amounts of spin more than any players I have seen in the last fifty years. I think skill is indeed a major factor but I think equipment comes into play a lot too. The old balls and cloth, the shape both were usually in, meant the effects of side spin were going to be larger. Like lower deflection shafts, everything about today's pool could be called "lower deflection" and more consistent.

I don't think that today's playing style would have developed without the changes in equipment. Of course the same is true of yesterday's playing style too. Horses for courses. Equipment largely dictates playing style. I am not sure how I feel about that. Mike Sigel tried to turn back the clock and found that it didn't change things a whole lot though.

Hu

An interesting perspective for sure, Hu. I'm going to have to give this a little more thought.

 

[7stud]

If you hit 100% flat OB dead straight the CB will roll forwards about 2” to 5” on fast cloth.

I was taught this about after playing for a year. Roy Fuffernick taught me how to hit a ball straight and then build your game off that.

I’m not a technical writer either, the stun run snooker jargon is pretty accurate language as well.

I used to shoot 50-100 straight balls a day for decades. I got real good at that. Being dead straight is a lock for me. There’s only one way to make a straight in ball-hit it straight. Horrible for shape but for the $ ball I’ll take straight every time.

Best
Fatboy

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

 

[Fatboy]

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

Best advice I can give you, is learn to enjoy practicing. Hard to do, but not impossible.

Give’em hell,

Fatboy

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

Short, undefined, unproductive practice sessions that are few and far between, is like slow death.
Done that to myself more than I care to admit.

** Just thought about this. My stroke- not great but better than it was.
Take a glass soda bottle and put it on the bathroom vanity, set a cue next to it. Everytime you visit tell yourself, 10 good ones. Groove 10 slow straight strokes.
After two weeks she gets a little straightened out.

 

[Bobkitty]

If you hit 100% flat OB dead straight the CB will roll forwards about 2” to 5” on fast cloth.

I was taught this about after playing for a year. Roy Fuffernick taught me how to hit a ball straight and then build your game off that.


Fatboy

Yes, you've got it. Roy and Robin agree on what "center ball" is. Your first sentence shows the way to practice the shot with a straight in and CB to OB about one diamond away, then two diamonds separated, then 3,4, 5 diamonds away dropping the cue tip on the CB with each increase to get the 3" to 6" roll out. What this practice drill will teach is on an angle shot, if the tangent line is NOT the line you'd like, maybe you want the CB to go just a little bit forward of tangent for shape.

 

[poolnut7879]

Spin or no spin if you can keep getting the same angle on a large percentage of your shots, table layout permitting, your run out percentage will go up. For most players I believe this angle to be a half ball hit. This also leads to where you can use a stun shot which is very predictable with it's 90 degree tangent line and required use of a firm stroke. This same angle usually can get you anywhere on the table with your preferred or not preferred English and with the repeated replication that makes the game start to seem simple like when the pros make it look so easy.

 

[ShootingArts]

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

You can practice at home. Years ago I was bored. I bought a joint or two of heavy wall PVC, nominal 2" I believe. Set a stop on one of the wood cutoff saws that replaced the radial arm saw and cut a bucket of "pucks" slightly over 2-1/4 wide and the same height. It takes more time to type this than to cut out the pucks.

Then I cut a little jig to measure to just below the center of the puck. Put a spot there about 1/4" diameter with a sharpie. Put a "T" for top on the pucks at one end. Now I could whack a bucket full of those pucks on any flat surface, trying to hit the spot with the tip of my cue.

I quickly found out that when I was out of stroke I hit about 1/8" to 3/16" high left of where I intended. A few days practice and I hit the dot in the center every time. Then I started moving the dot side to side like I was applying spin and checked where the chalk marks were. I got a lot of mileage out of those pucks and a six foot one by ten. Later I tested where other people hit the cue ball on a moderately difficult cut shot into a corner pocket at the world's pool hall, Buffalo Billiards NOLA. From bar room bangers through AA players or shortstops, I found only two players really hit the cue ball where they thought they did. One was an absolute banger that played a few times a year, one was an upper C, maybe B player. The interesting thing is that both of these players looked at the cue ball last when shooting.

A nine ball gives a nice small target to aim at if you have balls or are at a pool hall. The hole in the nine works well.

Whatever you do, know you aren't alone. I suspect very few hit the cue ball exactly where they plan. I think that is why we develop a favorite side to cut to. In younger years, as a right handed shooter I preferred to cut to the left using both eyes to maximum advantage. After a few decades of rarely shooting when I came back I favored cutting right, kinda odd for a right handed shooter or one with the right eye dominant.

Anyone can try this. Results may surprise you!

Hu

 

[tomatoshooter]

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

Try shooting a striped ball of the far rail and have it come back to your cue tip. You can do this 100 times in 15 minutes or less. Yeah, it sucks but you will see improvement fast. One thing I've struggled with is sloppy vision center alignment. I drift left so my perception of vertical axis is tilted to the left. All my follow shots will have left spin and draw shots will have right spin.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I mainly practice straight in shots. My problem is I can't hit the vertical axis. I use a measles cue ball, and I use one of the measles as a target, but my chalk mark is always a little low and to the right. I cannot hit the left side of the measle--impossible. So, my CB always has right spin on it. So frustrating. I rarely get an opportunity to practice, and now I hate practicing.

Other than the Mighy X I linked earlier a couple of other things I practice is to get down on your stroke on a long rail and stroke slowly while making sure your cue follows the line where the cushion meets the rails. The dashed line in the first pic should give a visual - I tried adding a cue but couldn't get perfectly lined up - much like my own stroke! LOL. This is helpful if you're not feeling it mid-match and you're waiting for someone to rack or get a drink, it's quick and easy.

The other one is to place two balls on the foot rail, put the CB on the head spot and hit the CB straight down table and hit between the balls and have the CB come straight back and hit your tip. This is a pretty standard drill if you want to work on your stroke.

Oh, and please note the PURPLE 4 ball, as it should be

And for fun, move the CB 6" left or right and hit that same spot between the balls and use a little English to get it to come back to your tip, that will help with understanding how minute tip movements affect the ball.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Try shooting a striped ball of the far rail and have it come back to your cue tip. You can do this 100 times in 15 minutes or less. Yeah, it sucks but you will see improvement fast. One thing I've struggled with is sloppy vision center alignment. I drift left so my perception of vertical axis is tilted to the left. All my follow shots will have left spin and draw shots will have right spin.

That's interesting, I actually tend to do the same thing (left on follow and right on draw) when not focusing and/or just messing around. Never considered it to be a vision issue, always assumed it was a stroke thing because I hold the cue close to my body and my hand sits a little forward on impact.

Will have to check that out.

 

[tomatoshooter]

That's interesting, I actually tend to do the same thing (left on follow and right on draw) when not focusing and/or just messing around. Never considered it to be a vision issue, always assumed it was a stroke thing because I hold the cue close to my body and my hand sits a little forward on impact.

Will have to check that out.

I'm sure there are other factors by my vision center is my left eye so, being right handed, I have to lean a little further over the cue. That can also get my stroke out of line. I do the cushion seam thing you showed and rotate my shoulders, move my elbow in and out, open or close my stance to try to find the smoothest straightest alignment. I need to stop jerking my stroke on harder shots, I think it causes misalignment.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I'm sure there are other factors by my vision center is my left eye so, being right handed, I have to lean a little further over the cue. That can also get my stroke out of line. I do the cushion seam thing you showed and rotate my shoulders, move my elbow in and out, open or close my stance to try to find the smoothest straightest alignment. I need to stop jerking my stroke on harder shots, I think it causes misalignment.

Roger, I'm a lefty and pretty sure right eyed. The jerking will most definitely affect the stroke, that's what the pause in the back stroke fixes.

Another stroke/center ball test is to get down in your stance on a regular rail shot (CB 6-10" away from the rail - whatever is comfortable) and then remove the bridge hand. I was giving instructions to a lady once and we found some errors by doing that - she'll forever be an APA SL1, but that's a different story.