CSI dumps Diamond for Predator tables

[realkingcobra]

As do I, brother....As do I.

Global Billiards Manufacturing in CA is building the Brunswick coin op tables, but for how much longer is the question to be answered. Global builds their own pool tables there as well, but distribution is a challenge in itself for Globals tables, let alone the Brunswick tables too. I keep saying, but no ones listening, without vendor support, there is NO distribution channels to move these tables around the country so they can be distributed. There is 2 major components to selling coin operated pool tables, 1) a distribution network, and 2) available financing.

Good luck with the dreams of a Brunswick coin op, or a Predator coin op as well.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Global Billiards Manufacturing in CA is building the Brunswick coin op tables, but for how much longer is the question to be answered. Global builds their own pool tables there as well, but distribution is a challenge in itself for Globals tables, let alone the Brunswick tables too. I keep saying, but no ones listening, without vendor support, there is NO distribution channels to move these tables around the country so they can be distributed. There is 2 major components to selling coin operated pool tables, 1) a distribution network, and 2) available financing.

Good luck with the dreams of a Brunswick coin op, or a Predator coin op as well.

We can dream for it. Yea... I know... wish in one hand, shit in the other.

Hey Glen... I sent you a PM a little while ago about a diagram. Did you get it?

 

[trentfromtoledo]

As do I, brother....As do I.

I know you love them like I do. Some people think they can predict the future: SOMEHOW ITS ALWAY BAD. I try not to listen to those "negative" people and watch what the market is actually doing. Brunswick even making something new is great. I think they know a thing or two since THEY INVENTED COMMERCIAL POOL! They set the bar and left it behind. Escalade has $$$ and the B.I.G. Group is very strong, I am going to keep faith that they are coming together to make Pool a legitimate Sport in our great US OF A!

TFT

 

[telinoz]

For those who haven't seen a K-steel here's some clear pics of the guts. All those bolts have to be evenly snugged to get the frame right. The little silver studs sticking up is the slate adjusters. https://gclbilliards.com/sam-k-steel-set-up-of-american-9ft-pool-table/

This quote from the article jumps out:

"Sam K steels take expert trained fitters to set up , they are very complicated pieces of cue sports equipment , having hundreds of bolts and screws and all are vital to make the table spot on .
if you start to miss screws and bolts out of these type of tables , then they will never play right .
when buying one please make sure it is all complete. "

If the 7ft tables are same construction, good luck setting up 300 in Vegas.
Lol

 

[Straightpool_99]

This quote from the article jumps out:

"Sam K steels take expert trained fitters to set up , they are very complicated pieces of cue sports equipment , having hundreds of bolts and screws and all are vital to make the table spot on .
if you start to miss screws and bolts out of these type of tables , then they will never play right .
when buying one please make sure it is all complete. "

If the 7ft tables are same construction, good luck setting up 300 in Vegas.
Lol

Maybe you can pre-assemble most of the frame in advance? You may not have to take it fully apart between setups. I don't know, have never seen a Sam table afaik.

 

[realkingcobra]

We can dream for it. Yea... I know... wish in one hand, shit in the other.

Hey Glen... I sent you a PM a little while ago about a diagram. Did you get it?

No, how did you send it?

 

[Fatboy]

With interest rates going up table manufactures are going to have a tough time financing tables.

It was a brilliant idea and it worked, I believe Bwick started it in the 60’s for a while. Didn’t last.

Diamond has done it for the last 15-17 years successfully.

But if the rates go up to high, it will price tables out of the market. Not like pool rooms are flush with cash to begin with.

Tough action right now

 

[ChrisinNC]

Ernesto is good and has been doing it for a long time but he's not the best mechanic in CA.

I’m in North Carolina so I wouldn’t know, but as far as pool table mechanics, I’d be shocked if there’s anyone anywhere who is as experienced, hard-working and has as competitive a $ rates as Ernesto does.

He takes care of his longtime regular customers and for reasons I will never quite understand, Ernesto could easily charge 2X the $ prices that he does, but he doesn’t.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

With interest rates going up table manufactures are going to have a tough time financing tables.

It was a brilliant idea and it worked, I believe Bwick started it in the 60’s for a while. Didn’t last.

Diamond has done it for the last 15-17 years successfully.

But if the rates go up to high, it will price tables out of the market. Not like pool rooms are flush with cash to begin with.

Tough action right now

IMO. If you need to borrow to buy pool tables from the manufacturer or rent a building: you are likely to fail in the pool business.

TFT
Home table purchases at a sub prime lending rate = i would never sell this way.

 

[realkingcobra]

as far as pool table mechanics, I’d be shocked if there’s anyone anywhere who is as experienced

Don't kid yourself, just saying

 

[realkingcobra]

I’m in North Carolina so I wouldn’t know, but as far as pool table mechanics, I’d be shocked if there’s anyone anywhere who is as experienced, hard-working and has as competitive a $ rates as Ernesto does.

He takes care of his longtime regular customers and for reasons I will never quite understand, Ernesto could easily charge 2X the $ prices that he does, but he doesn’t.

This is not Ernesto's level of work, trust me!

 

[ChrisinNC]

Don't kid yourself, just saying

Please, give me some names?

 

[Fatboy]

IMO. If you need to borrow to buy pool tables from the manufacturer or rent a building: you are likely to fail in the pool business.

TFT
Home table purchases at a sub prime lending rate = i would never sell this way.

If a bar wants to throw away a Valley Cougar and replace it with a Diamond, they should get a award. 2nd it’s incidental to their core biz which would be the bar biz and likely it’s a very safe loan to make.

With a down payment to offset manufacturing costs. All that financed is the profit margin and it’s collateralized.

On the other hand to put 20 9’ boxes in a proper pool room with its core biz as pool, that’s a risky loan even with a down payment. As that biz model really doesn’t work so well these days

Point is each install a table vendor makes is a different story and comes with a different level of risk. It’s not the same twice.

Loaning $ is a tricky biz. And thats all this is. Don’t get distracted by pool tables. The collateral is the tables the need for the loan is based on the need for tables. But at the end of the day it’s a totally separate transaction. Just like buying a car. The car is one deal, the finance is another deal.

That just normal biz.

Nothing new or special,

Best
Fatboy ️

 

[realkingcobra]

Please, give me some names?

Jay Spielberg, Mark Gregory, Zach Jonas, Jack Zimmerman, Gordon Graham, Steve Leistiknow for starters

Myself included, but quality and cheap cost don't belong in the same sentence! I won't give away my skills for cheap just to get a job so I can stay working, I'd rather go fishing instead!

On the other hand, you benefit from cheap, which blinds you to the higher level of quality, because you'll never see it, so, you'll never know what's really available, until you hit a road block, and then have to make a decision as to what to do next.

 

[ChrisinNC]

This is not Ernesto's level of work, trust me!

View attachment 649469View attachment 649470

Yes, that’s impressive work, but you specialize on refurbishing one table at a time when you have days, possibly even weeks to work your magic on one single table.

Ernesto has likely worked on 25,000-30,000 tables in the last 40+ years, in poolrooms all over the country, but mainly in California.

When they are having problems with the tables at a professional tournament, Ernesto is the one who is called in to fix the tables, even if he’s playing in the tournament and has to stay up all night fixing them.

 

[realkingcobra]

Yes, that’s impressive work, but you obviously specialize on refurbishing one table at a time when you have days, possibly even weeks to work your magic on one single table.

Ernesto has likely worked on over 25,000-30,000 tables in the last 40+ years, in poolrooms all over the country, but mainly in California.

When they are having problems with the tables at a professional tournament, Ernesto is the one who is called in to fix the tables, even if he’s playing in the tournament and has to stay up all night fixing them.

Screwing slates down to bent cross members is not fixing them, thats a bandaid at best. You CAN'T screw slates down BELOW the level of the bent cross members. Ernesto is compensating the slates for a piss poor designed table, not FIXING them.

Installing cloth and replacing cushions is installer work, not on the same level as a Billiard Technicians work. At so.e point in time, your tables are going to need to be rebuilt, or replaced for new. You are the one to make that call per table, and have all year long to do so, but you're right, it's not going to take place 2 weeks before your big tournaments. What about the rest of the year?

 

[realkingcobra]

Yes, that’s impressive work, but you specialize on refurbishing one table at a time when you have days, possibly even weeks to work your magic on one single table.

Ernesto has likely worked on 25,000-30,000 tables in the last 40+ years, in poolrooms all over the country, but mainly in California.

When they are having problems with the tables at a professional tournament, Ernesto is the one who is called in to fix the tables, even if he’s playing in the tournament and has to stay up all night fixing them.

Jay has been working on tables for over 40 years as well as myself, I can't even to begin to imagine how many pool tables I've worked on.

Again, this is not installer level of work. When you do need this level of work done, who are you going to call then?

Ever seen GC1 casting sitting so flush to the formica rail top? This can't be done when the tables have to be rushed to get done, just before a tournament starts.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I'm not a business owner, but IMO if tables are so far gone and are 50 plus year old GC1-3, they should be thrown in the trash and replaced with new tables. (Or sold for a few hundred to pool nuts and then those pool nuts can pay a top mechanic to replace all the wood). I can't really think of any successful business that regularly keep 50 year old equipment as their core equipment used to attract paying customers. Unless its some antique decoration as part of the allure to the business. Old GC's are not attractive to customers. I'm a pool nut, own a GC4 in my home, and old commercial GC's in a pool room look like garbage. All metal pitted to hell, formica full of dents from smashing cues on the rails, etc. No thanks, If I was a business owner and in that situation of having to spend a bunch of money to rebuild all my tables, or spend more to buy all new tables, I'd buy all new tables, whichever the brand.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

If a bar wants to throw away a Valley Cougar and replace it with a Diamond, they should get a award. 2nd it’s incidental to their core biz which would be the bar biz and likely it’s a very safe loan to make.

With a down payment to offset manufacturing costs. All that financed is the profit margin and it’s collateralized.

On the other hand to put 20 9’ boxes in a proper pool room with its core biz as pool, that’s a risky loan even with a down payment. As that biz model really doesn’t work so well these days

Point is each install a table vendor makes is a different story and comes with a different level of risk. It’s not the same twice.

Loaning $ is a tricky biz. And thats all this is. Don’t get distracted by pool tables. The collateral is the tables the need for the loan is based on the need for tables. But at the end of the day it’s a totally separate transaction. Just like buying a car. The car is one deal, the finance is another deal.

That just normal biz.

Nothing new or special,

Best
Fatboy ️

I prefer to deal with people who HAVE THE $$$. They are usually better business people and will be successful. They buy the tables, the building and own everything in it. I do realize people with money finance businesses in order to not spend their own capital. Thats OK to, people doing sub prime lending to put in tables & renting buildings are risk takers and I wish them the best, but, they usually fail.

I know you know business @Fatboy !!! I know quite a few successful room owners and know failing or failed ones as well.

TFT

p.s. Sorry for derailing the thread, I promise I wont start posting pictures of my work LOL

 

[Fatboy]

I'm not a business owner, but IMO if tables are so far gone and are 50 plus year old GC1-3, they should be thrown in the trash and replaced with new tables. (Or sold for a few hundred to pool nuts and then those pool nuts can pay a top mechanic to replace all the wood). I can't really think of any successful business that regularly keep 50 year old equipment as their core equipment used to attract paying customers. Unless its some antique decoration as part of the allure to the business. Old GC's are not attractive to customers. I'm a pool nut, own a GC4 in my home, and old commercial GC's in a pool room look like garbage. All metal pitted to hell, formica full of dents from smashing cues on the rails, etc. No thanks, If I was a business owner and in that situation of having to spend a bunch of money to rebuild all my tables, or spend more to buy all new tables, I'd buy all new tables, whichever the brand.

I agree the old GC’s in some pool rooms are Frankenstein tables barely holding up. House of Billiards (recently closed) is a prime example. The tables are shot, wore out and no way to run a biz. They can be restored and made into amazing tables as some AZB members have done. But to keep old shit boxes sitting there renting them for $15/hour is no way to run a pool room.

I have a GC4 that was Artie Bordendorfer’s table he bought new. It’s never been in a pool room, for a little over a year it got 8-12 or more hours of use a day at my house in Vegas-everyone came to play. So it’s pretty much a new table. But that’s a exception.

Throw out the old tables, install new equipment and run a proper pool room. Which is hard to do these days.

But old trashed tables are just that

Best
Fatboy