The bangers are getting better

[Guy Manges]

Good pool information is a lot easier to access now (Dr. Dave, etc) instead of having to rely on a handful of books. Also the Flynn effect, people (generally) are more skilled and better at everything today.

More dumb players are being forced into intelligence, Maybe thanks to people like Dr Dave and so... Also equipment...

 

[Fatboy]

6 months ago I would struggle against weaker opponents, they brought my game down to their level. So I practiced. And practiced. And practiced some more. And the damn bangers have learned to shoot much better in the past 6 months.

Keep at it. You’ll start to see the gap get wider and wider the more effort you put into your game. Also step up and play better players more often-that will help you more.

 

[Guy Manges]

We have a husband and wife couple who come in here regularly for our weekly tournament, who only took up playing pool a year ago, play without fail in three tournaments a week at three different poolrooms, both still have the lowest ranking possible, both have jump cues, break cues, custom playing cues with carbon fiber shafts, JB cases - easily over $5K in pool equipment between them.

The female is actually improving and getting close to moving up a ranking, the guy is not. Hard to understand, but the important thing is they are absolutely loving it! I have no idea what they did with all their time and $ previous to this past year!

Thats pool ... Guy... Thankgoodnesss...

 

[Guy Manges]

395 all the way... Guy

 

[Fatboy]

We have a husband and wife couple who come in here regularly for our weekly tournament, who only took up playing pool a year ago, play without fail in three tournaments a week at three different poolrooms, both still have the lowest ranking possible, both have jump cues, break cues, custom playing cues with carbon fiber shafts, JB cases - easily over $5K in pool equipment between them.

The female is actually improving and getting close to moving up a ranking, the guy is not. Hard to understand, but the important thing is they are absolutely loving it! I have no idea what they did with all their time and $ previous to this past year!

Great they are having fun. That’s the whole idea, recreational pool is cool. I never looked it like that, but I’m in the minority.

Best
Fatboy

 

[Guy Manges]

That’s exactly right RA wasn’t lying about that. I was talking to Johnny about that last night. It’s all in the street now, stuff we knew and didn’t share-all public now.

A LOT OF IT, and life goes on... When I was a young man I watched a player break five 9 ball racks, So... Guy

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

I’m jealous in all this too. Some of the bangers even have fargorates. I’ve never had one dammit.
Funny as hell when they go to look it up before a money game. Lol. That’s what they do now out here-look up your APA and Fargo before they play you.

 

[Guy Manges]

I got friendly with Li'l Joe Villalpando on the net so mostly for grins bought his first two DVD's or maybe he gave them to me. I have bought a few sets and sent on to people and forget what I bought and what I was given.

Anyway, the point is that for seventy dollars and probably three months of 30-40 hour weeks working with the disks somebody could learn what took me five or six thousand hours on the table to learn. Part of me was amazed at how easy so much pool goodness was to come by, and I was a little bit pissed that somebody put all of that on the street for seventy bucks. I wasn't pissed at Joe and I knew if he didn't do it somebody else would, still it was amazing.

A few years or so down the road I watched three young guys take about ten grand out of a pool hall in three days, cell phones and internet be damned! What I found very interesting is that they played with young men's eyes and bodies but an old man's knowledge. Close to the cue ball control of Toby Sweet as an example since we have been talking about him on the forum. I knew I was almost certainly looking at the results of a few years coaching by an old master.

Instructional material and better equipment to play on and with is flattening out the learning curve and performance levels of players today. While it is a source of discord on here, it is fact that it took a different level of skill to bounce around on the road and take in and adjust to the total room conditions when the rooms had all different levels of climate control and lighting. Now you go into a decent room almost anywhere and the conditions are almost the same on most tables.

I played for a few years primarily out of Buffalo's place on Airline near New Orleans. The old AC ran wide open 24-7 in the summer months but still couldn't keep up. Heat and humidity could both get pretty ugly. I formed my opinion of the new generation Diamond tables, red and then blue labels, there. They play pretty consistently from table to table but they banked pretty badly short. Adapted and it worked just fine.

Then I spent a week in Dallas. I got on Diamonds a few places including the Chinese Restaurant Billy I and company were running. The banking on the Diamonds was distinctly longer than on the same blue label nine foot Diamonds in the old low ceilinged poorly climate controlled building Buff had to settle for immediately after Katrina laid waste to the world down there. While it is true some tables bank longer, anyone that couldn't bank on those Diamonds in Dallas couldn't bank on anything. I had to revise my opinion of Diamonds a bit upwards and I already liked them.

Not much difference in the players at the very top. Drop a young Efren, Buddy Hall, a handful more into today's scene and I think they would quickly rise to the same level as they were before in comparison to other players. Take a little longer due to more to learn but I think today's top players would also quickly find their level playing seventy-five years ago, Not much movement at the very top that can't be explained by equipment and conditions.

However, the high C to A level players is where there has been a lot of flattening out. If I spent two weeks on the road just taking what I found I might bump into three to six mid B level or above players. I would probably find over a dozen players the same speed or better today in a few days without particularly looking. The skill level doesn't seem higher but there seems to be a lot more people that are at the mid to upper levels than there was fifty years ago.

The bangers are still bangers, but there are a lot more people above banger level than there used to be. If he had the street smarts to go with the pool a mid "B" level player could make a half decent living on the road, plenty of fish below him. Now there are a lot fewer fish below him and they are all too aware of their standing. I think it was William Claude Dukenfield that said never smarten a chump and never give a sucker an even break. The chumps have been smartened for the most part.

Hu

Again thank you for the words, WC Was an exception, Passed down to his son, They loved pool , Takes all of us to make a pile... Guy

 

[WardS]

Absoluelty NOT. Bangers still are just as likely to miscue a straight in shot as 20 years ago. Pool is a hard game to pick up. It doesn't matter if Efren is holding your hand. I'd go as far as saying there are less bangers turned into players as 20 years ago.

I would disagree with you. They more information available today, better equipment and more people to play

 

[tomatoshooter]

both have jump cues, break cues, custom playing cues with carbon fiber shafts, JB cases - easily over $5K in pool equipment between them.

It does seem a bit overkill but they'd probably spend that much on greens fees if they played golf. They could spend it on a couch and set infront of the TV all day. I don't want noobs to think they should spend a lot of money or it's not worth it to try but once you decide you are serious, you might as well upgrade. Sometimes there's a mindset that you have to "earn" that nice stick but I think getting nice gear inspires you to pursue the activity more seriously. And it's not like there's a limited supply og quality cues and you are snatching one out of a young Efren Reyes' hands.

I’m jealous in all this too. Some of the bangers even have fargorates. I’ve never had one dammit.
Funny as hell when they go to look it up before a money game. Lol. That’s what they do now out here-look up your APA and Fargo before they play you.

That's why I use an alias. Somehow no one wants to play "Cesar Morales" either though.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

They only game I can think of where people are worse today then in the past?

Horseshoes.

I love playing horseshoes buckshot. Bags just aren’t the same.

 

[Clusterbuster]

A lot of truth to what you say but my main mentor was the owner of a pool hall. When he saw me in there most nights banging away and trying to learn he started coming by and showing me bits and pieces.

I had never seen Jessie help anyone except to protect his equipment from absolute bangers so being fifteen or sixteen I was offended that he lumped me in with that group! After that Jessie never showed "me" another thing. However, once or twice an evening he would come over and show whoever I was playing something, often something they had no hope of executing because I was the only one in my group that was obsessed with pool. Later that session or maybe the next day or two I would use what Jessie had shown. Looking over to the counter I would always see Jessie grinning.

Funny thing, Jessie and I never played a game, not for money or free. The first few years Jessie had too much class to rob a kid. When I might have been able to beat Jessie I had too much respect for him to try to.

While he mentored me freely, Jessie wouldn't give a lesson. He felt that people wanting to pay for lessons wanted to buy his years of experience cheaply. I can still hear his growl, "I'll give them all the lessons they want, for ten dollars a game!" That would have been damned expensive lessons back then.

I kinda came with the place when Jessie bought it. He sold me a lot of beer and never asked for an ID. I don't think he was totally clueless though. He opened a youth pool hall up the road a piece and invited me to come there. I looked for it, never found it though. I left town a couple years and when I came back the pool hall was gone, so was Jessie.

Hu

That’s a nice vignette, well told. Kinda made me wish I had known Jessie.

 

[ShootingArts]

That’s a nice vignette, well told. Kinda made me wish I had known Jessie.

Jessie was one of a kind. A retired oilfield roughneck best I recall. Strong as a bull but funny too. I spent a good many hours just sitting at his counter talking to him. One of those people I will always miss.

Hu

 

[Woodshaft]

The players today are better than in days of old imo. It's probably because of things like "youtube" instructional and, pool videos in general. Also better playing equipment-- ie LEVEL tables, ld shafts, gloves, etc...

 

[trob]

Is it just me or are the bangers getting better with time? Seems like 20 yrs ago there were less people running racks than there are now. At least around these parts. Is it the smaller tables everyone is switching to, APA? Who knows. And then to top it off more and more the “banger” isn’t the one you should worry about, it’s the banger’s girl who is the stone cold killer!

I would agree.. my best friend and I started playing 30 years a go have talked about that often that the average league player runs out more now then they did when we first started. It’s definitely easier to get info. I had to read books or hope one of the older gentlemen would pass on some info.
When I started playing I was winning a lot early because I played safes instead of taking wild shots. That was considered dirty pool and would start fights in the old bca leagues lol. Now that’s common knowledge to lock them up.
I feel the equipment changing helped to. Everyone was playing with the big mud cue balls on slow cloth back then. You got out of position and it wasn’t as easy just to power draw the ball or spin it. Now they play with the red circle and simonis cloth on a bar box. You don’t need a great stroke to move it around on that. You barely ever needy to go past a medium stroke.
To the people complaining about the equipment Do you want to see pool rise financially? Do you play golf? If not every day you’ll see 20 handy cappers playing with a $500 driver or a $300 putter…and nobody cares. If it makes you happy and enjoy and support the game more it’s great. If you can afford that custom cue and it makes you go out and play more that’s great For the game and you. Stop chasing people off and putting them down because they aren’t a world beater like all of you think you are and let them continue to support this game We love. I don’t care if your a gambler, league player , tournament player or just someone that likes to got the pool hall and play a little thanks for supporting the game.

 

[soyale]

I would agree.. my best friend and I started playing 30 years a go have talked about that often that the average league player runs out more now then they did when we first started. It’s definitely easier to get info. I had to read books or hope one of the older gentlemen would pass on some info.
When I started playing I was winning a lot early because I played safes instead of taking wild shots. That was considered dirty pool and would start fights in the old bca leagues lol. Now that’s common knowledge to lock them up.
I feel the equipment changing helped to. Everyone was playing with the big mud cue balls on slow cloth back then. You got out of position and it wasn’t as easy just to power draw the ball or spin it. Now they play with the red circle and simonis cloth on a bar box. You don’t need a great stroke to move it around on that. You barely ever needy to go past a medium stroke.
To the people complaining about the equipment Do you want to see pool rise financially? Do you play golf? If not every day you’ll see 20 handy cappers playing with a $500 driver or a $300 putter…and nobody cares. If it makes you happy and enjoy and support the game more it’s great. If you can afford that custom cue and it makes you go out and play more that’s great For the game and you. Stop chasing people off and putting them down because they aren’t a world beater like all of you think you are and let them continue to support this game We love. I don’t care if your a gambler, league player , tournament player or just someone that likes to got the pool hall and play a little thanks for supporting the game.

thank you

 

[Cezar Morales]

Is it just me or are the bangers getting better with time? Seems like 20 yrs ago there were less people running racks than there are now. At least around these parts. Is it the smaller tables everyone is switching to, APA? Who knows. And then to top it off more and more the “banger” isn’t the one you should worry about, it’s the banger’s girl who is the stone cold killer!

Becoz they r probably not bangers ?!

 

[hang-the-9]

Is it just me or are the bangers getting better with time? Seems like 20 yrs ago there were less people running racks than there are now. At least around these parts. Is it the smaller tables everyone is switching to, APA? Who knows. And then to top it off more and more the “banger” isn’t the one you should worry about, it’s the banger’s girl who is the stone cold killer!

If a banger is running racks they are no longer a "banger". It's like saying "seems there are a lot more poor people that are rich", once you become rich, you are no longer poor. Once you learn to play, you are no longer a banger. Even someone that is up to getting even 2-3 balls in a row regularly and has an idea of what playing position is, they graduate to the rank of D player, or a "beginner". A banger is just a guy that smacks balls around hoping that every once in a while something goes in. Thus the term "banger", they don't know about pool ,they are likely not interested in pool or at least not much interested in learning or practice to get better. I have seen many lifetime bangers that play in leagues all the time, and they are still lower ranked after years of play. Those are the "stubborn bangers" LOL.

I have noticed that people are getting better faster than they used to, mostly those that try and get some instruction. I know several players that are well ahead of how I played in my first year of playing and I really tried to learn when I started. Funny part those players get mad when they make mistakes, they don't even know how much more there is to learn and practice before they can play properly. Mistakes are normal or we would all be out there playing with the Archers and the Stricklands.

 

[cjr3559]

What’s a banger anyway.

The first I ever heard the term was in ‘The Color of Money’ when Eddie calls 9 Ball a game for ‘Bangers’.

 

[vapoolplayer]

If a banger is running racks they are no longer a "banger". It's like saying "seems there are a lot more poor people that are rich", once you become rich, you are no longer poor. Once you learn to play, you are no longer a banger. Even someone that is up to getting even 2-3 balls in a row regularly and has an idea of what playing position is, they graduate to the rank of D player, or a "beginner". A banger is just a guy that smacks balls around hoping that every once in a while something goes in. Thus the term "banger", they don't know about pool ,they are likely not interested in pool or at least not much interested in learning or practice to get better. I have seen many lifetime bangers that play in leagues all the time, and they are still lower ranked after years of play. Those are the "stubborn bangers" LOL.

I have noticed that people are getting better faster than they used to, mostly those that try and get some instruction. I know several players that are well ahead of how I played in my first year of playing and I really tried to learn when I started. Funny part those players get mad when they make mistakes, they don't even know how much more there is to learn and practice before they can play properly. Mistakes are normal or we would all be out there playing with the Archers and the Stricklands.

It’s all relative.

It’s an extreme case, but if the overall talent level became high enough, running out a rack here and there could easily be a “banger.”


Also, that’s how you become great. Being “mad” at mistakes.

Winners are *never* satisfied with their performance. It comes off as arrogant when someone plays very well but is visibly unhappy with a shot here and there. When it’s actually just their drive to perform well showing.

When you see people “happy” with their performance that’s when they plateau or start losing.