Push Out
- Thread starter Biloxi Boy
- Start date
I always refused to play any two fouls….only two fouls by the same player….’any two’ never made sense to me…Why should a guy be able to roll out, and put ME under the gun?
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
There is so much more to pool than just pocketing balls. Look at One Pocket. When I was young, I was told it was a game for old men -- no one played it. Today, One Pocket has boomed, in large part because folks discovered there was so much to it. Plus, folks now want more than running racks.
You need one hell of an advanced playing and smart 10 year old to use that much strategy in anything LOL I know many 20 yr olds that can't think of shots this way.
I'm not a big fan of the old 9 ball rules, behind the line on scratches, balls being spotted after the break, etc... Sure it slows down the game and makes it more of a "moving" type game, but I don't see anything bad with the new rules either aside from nostalgia. It's a bit like people that want to play bank the 8 or last pocket 8 ball, it's usually the players that don't shoot as well as their opponent and want to have a better chance to win by changing up the rules so the game extends more into a bunting balls around the table for a bit instead of simply sinking the game winner.
Give the shot back to him...
One pocket would surely benefit from the implementation of a push out option.
Why? He's left handed and I'm not.
Remember next time when you push to him.
Agree on all these points. I suppose the thinking is more like "I can't make this and I bet my dad can't either" as opposed to just smashing things and hoping for the best. Of course,.the result can be the same for the new players if the push is poor (e.g, the shot is passed and the new player is left with smashing the balls anyway).
You’re missing a lot of push strategy…James Christopher used to push to fine cuts that weren’t bankable. Most players couldn’t hang with him on those shots…didn’t want to shoot it..
…but didn’t want him shooting it. So they would push back to a bank… now they’re both on one foul…and the first to foul is under the gun.
Why should the first to foul have the advantages?
At the Rack, I never saw ‘any two fouls’ played.
In serious action, The bar rule thinking often has to go.
Last edited:
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
You can take an intentional, you aren't giving up ball in hand.
I hate those games. If you are so cheap you have to milk your dollar for the table I'd rather not spend time with you. If you are stretching your time then you are keeping people waiting. If you aren't on a coin table then play an actual set. And if you want a challenge, play bank the first or next pocket. I hate those games. Bar 8 ball is designed to keep people from winning and losing, not as a legitimate test of skill.
I didn't really dime that often. Mostly somebody I really disliked! Those that had dimed me usually. Local clowns that thought they were pool gods sometimes just for entertainment!
I never gambled at Greenway. I did a couple times. The table by the counter. One of the local shortstops would come from the back or get called in. Nice thing, we started off playing for money. Once was an odd number, thirty or forty a game. The other time it was fifty a game. I had to play pool to not get my butt handed to me both times.
Once I broke even I think. Let the other player get back to even and he quit. The other time I won $100 or $150 after a couple hours play, no money considering the time. These games were about six months apart. Both times for the next six weeks or couple months I would get in action in my usual haunts around town. Somebody would come up, "I saw him playing so and so at Greenway ..." I don't think I won $200 total at Greenway combining both times. People diming me probably cost me over two-thousand after each time, things went seriously dry! I got dimed out so many times I was surprised when I wasn't if I got in decent action.
After that I would just go in Greenway for recreational play. Never did make any money there. Playing those couple times taught me all I needed to know about knockers! I hemmed up a couple of them and told them how the cow ate the cabbage but I couldn't fight them all! If I got a chance to stick a knife in the knockers' backs later, you can bet your bottom dollar I did! I made them out to be the greatest thing this side of the second coming.
The barbox is designed for one thing, to eat quarters as fast as possible! I would swear that Danny Medina and I were getting the mechanism noticeably warm playing barbox eight ball. For some reason we started on that game. I hate 9/6 on a bar table anyway. When we pulled the training wheels off there were a lot of one inning racks. No time wasted between shots either. We were both young guns and in a hurry to get things done!
Hu
A friend of mine got in action with a road player….wouldn’t play him even…got the seven and won a couple Gs…
…later, he saw us having a meal at a diner and accused me of knocking his action…
…I responded “Knocking?…who the hell do you think was staking him?”
When Paul Newman played heads-up 9-ball in the ‘Hustler’ movie (9’ table), he was likely playing the rules I grew up with (all fouls, balls spotted, shoot from the kitchen after a scratch, winner breaks, etc. No push-out, no ball-in-hand, no 3-foul loss, and an obvious ‘safety‘ could get your thumbs broken. Seemed exciting then.
P.S. Nostalgia aside, thinking about the old rules got me wondering: Back then, if your opponent left you thoroughly sewed, with absolutely no possible kick hit, and you couldn’t reasonably loft high enough with your playing cue (or even loft up off the cushion), proper decorum (and concern for personal safety) should likely have lead to a concession?
see if this helps
CJ Wiley discusses 2-foul 9 ball (aka roll-out or push out)
A lot of folks on here seem to have never heard of 2-foul 9 ball every time it comes up. In the below video CJ Wiley gives a pretty good run-down on what made it special compared to the express version we play today. Sent from my iPad using...
forums.azbilliards.com
dquarasr
Registered
Thanks, guys, after being lazy and misguided about how much a site search would return, and rightfully admonished, I did indeed easily find CJ’s video and watched it.
I only sorta understand the strategies of effective use of the push out, whether in today’s version of 9-ball after the break, or the old version of rollout as described by CJ. Having played 9-ball only in “ball count” APA league, I have had little need to learn how to leverage the push out. (Note: this is not a veiled request for advice. Some day I’ll be ready for “real” 9-ball but not right now. But feel free to discuss it!
)None that i know of. By the time Pat started doing matches the game was pretty much all TE rules. BTW, someone said earlier that 2-shot leads to slow/ducking style of play. Not even close to being true. Games are won by SHOOTING far more often than by ducking. Because you could roll-out you tended to be a lot more offensive. All i know is i've played a lot both ways and 2shot is much more exciting/fun way to play.
It would be interesting to set up and film a match between two opponents that used these rules in the distant past and perhaps have a voice over with the participants detailing what they were thinking at key points of the match. I am interested in this. I can remember reading about push out in various books like Buddy Hall's book but really never appreciated or understood the difference. Likely it would be significant and fun to play this variant. Anybody in Denver still around that played this way and still play at a high level? I can think of a few but not naming names. My son is a video editor. It might be cool to film something. Probably not enough mainstream interest but hey I can dream.