I've spent way too much time perfecting my fundamentals...Don't be like me.

336Robin said:
General observation:

Very few instructors can give the common-sense advice that players can and there is a place for that kind of advice.

I played an instructor one pocket and had a shot when the ball was frozen to the rail that he couldn't stand the way I shot it
but I was always a high percentage to make a long straight in off the rail doing it my way where my cue left my bridge for a split second.

I changed because he kept hounding me now, I can barely make the ball. Doing it "the right way" for him wasn't worth it but
that doesn't mean he wasn't right.

I had a good friend that had a move that worked the same way as my rail shot. A great player and he was deadly with it.

You have to know when to comply with instruction.
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If your way accomplishes all of your needs it isn't wrong for you. I was a moderately decent amateur bowler. The way things were set up at LSU I had no option but to take bowling or golf as a PE my freshman year. It rains a lot in South Louisiana. You played golf rain or shine, hot or cold. Bowling it was. I had developed my own style. When they tried to teach me something else soon I couldn't bowl either way. Never did bowl worth a damn again.

When the cue ball and object ball are fairly close together, the legs of a cross side bank are fairly wide, and I am cutting the object ball a good bit, I jack the back of the cue stick way up and send cue ball and object ball skittering and bouncing! Been doing it that way for half a century. An excellent player and instructor asked me why I did it like that. I told them the truth, I no longer remembered the origin, I did it that way now because I rarely missed those shots playing them that way. When the object ball was in the air most of the time it couldn't have bad things happen from spin and contact with the cloth. There are no doubt more textbook ways to make those shots but until they start giving us style points I am going to keep on shooting them like that!

Hu
 
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All you anti practice go out and compete guys, consider all the foreigners that just appear and trounce everybody. Basically those foreigners come in above head level and ready to play it. Obviously somebody is doing it wrong.
 
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We need to do both, just like how a Boxer is trained. First, you woodshed in the gym and do 'the work', then, you go out and test yourself under combat conditions. Then, return to the gym to do 'more work; and then, after a time, return to test your mettle in the real world. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

I am from that school that believes we need both to develop.

Drills are absolutely awesome; but, we also need real competition, as well as, playing against people better than ourselves to make us better - even though those lessons can be expensive and painful. - GJ
 
Bob Jewett said:
And I think a well-designed drill should put pressure on the player. That can be from a scored drill or one that stretches the player's comfort zone.
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Agreed; and perfectly stated.

I also am a big advocate of keeping dedicated notebooks to record the outcomes of all drills/exercises performed within in a prescribed workout routine, session after session. I love numbers and I love being able to review my records - which lets me know my success/fail percentages on a given skill/shot/exercise.

Also, for me anyway, it's always been to hard to honestly gauge my improvement on an intermittent (between obvious break-through) basis; but, with the record of past outcomes at hand, there is never a question where I stand with myself. I can see when the numbers go up and stay up, and when they don't.

Yep, I love recording and figuring my numbers which keeps me aware and honest; because, as the old saying goes: "Figures don't lie, and Liars don't figure". And, when I was a real young guy, I could tell myself some bonafide delusional whoppers. ;) - GJ
 
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GentlemanJames said:
Agreed; and perfectly stated.

I also am a big advocate of keeping dedicated notebooks to record the outcomes of all drills/exercises performed within in a prescribed workout routine, session after session. I love numbers and I love being able to review my records - which lets me know my success/fail percentages on a given skill/shot/exercise.

Also, for me anyway, it's always been to hard to honestly gauge my improvement on an intermittent (between obvious break-through) basis; but, with the record of past outcomes at hand, there is never a question where I stand with myself. I can see when the number go up and stay up, and when they don't.

Yep, I love recording and figuring my numbers which keep me aware and honest; because, as the old saying goes: "Figures don't lie, and Liars don't figure". And, when I was a real young guy, I could tell myself some bonafide delusional whoppers. ;) - GJ
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For a man that likes numbers I suggest designing a graph or two. Even seeing the numbers isn't the same as graphing them. One thing I discovered, for what I was doing at the time, plateaus were an illusion. Sometimes progress was slower than other times but progress was always there.

When designing a graph it is important to not just decide what you are monitoring but over what time intervals too. Obviously graphing by the day would look pretty ragged and graphing by the hour might look like the teeth on a buzzsaw. Graphing every two weeks is probably adequate, every week will work. Deciding horizontal and vertical scales is important too. just selecting units and how many units shown can make graphs encouraging or discouraging.

It didn't hurt that I had a CAD machine in front of me and designed graphs as part of my job. I drew up some mighty fine graphs and even some longer term ones after I had been graphing awhile. Monthly graphs for a year might look like climbing a mountain.

One major thing that graphing did for me was eliminate those irritating and it turned out illusional plateaus. No fun to work our asses off without results. I thought I had several week or longer plateaus, didn't happen. Times of slower and faster growth but it sure was nice to see growth all of the time!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
For a man that likes numbers I suggest designing a graph or two. Even seeing the numbers isn't the same as graphing them. One thing I discovered, for what I was doing at the time, plateaus were an illusion. Sometimes progress was slower than other times but progress was always there.

When designing a graph it is important to not just decide what you are monitoring but over what time intervals too. Obviously graphing by the day would look pretty ragged and graphing by the hour might look like the teeth on a buzzsaw. Graphing every two weeks is probably adequate, every week will work. Deciding horizontal and vertical scales is important too. just selecting units and how many units shown can make graphs encouraging or discouraging.

It didn't hurt that I had a CAD machine in front of me and designed graphs as part of my job. I drew up some mighty fine graphs and even some longer term ones after I had been graphing awhile. Monthly graphs for a year might look like climbing a mountain.

One major thing that graphing did for me was eliminate those irritating and it turned out illusional plateaus. No fun to work our asses off without results. I thought I had several week or longer plateaus, didn't happen. Times of slower and faster growth but it sure was nice to see growth all of the time!

Hu
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SHOOTINGARTS - Brother Hu, THAT is an excellent idea and reasoning.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s I was doing a ton of work with Bert Kinister's material on VHS (I burn incense and bow from the ankles to Bert as a coach and person, and still shout-out 'Ding Dong Daddy!' when something hits just perfect with no possible better outcome possible). IIRC, Bert usually prescribed a 6 week training cycle with each of his lesson topics - which could take one tape, or, up to 4 tapes to fully convey the entire block of information he was teaching, demonstrating, and outlining the practice routine for that specific material.

What are your feelings on one weekly averaged score (comprised of multiple daily scored training sessions), charted over a 6 week block, to gauge relative level of mastery? - GJ
 
first you need to get a straight stroke. perfectly straight.

then let your mind put the stick down on the shot line and then stroke the kind of stroke that is naturally yours. not what some other top player tells you is right.

because when you are under pressure you will revert to your normal stroke and tempo, so thats what you have brung to the dance and need to live with.(yogi berra)
 
GentlemanJames said:
SHOOTINGARTS - Brother Hu, THAT is an excellent idea and reasoning.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s I was doing a ton of work with Bert Kinister's material on VHS (I burn incense and bow from the ankles to Bert as a coach and person, and still shout-out 'Ding Dong Daddy!' when something hits just perfect with no possible better outcome possible). IIRC, Bert usually prescribed a 6 week training cycle with each of his lesson topics - which could take one tape, or, up to 4 tapes to fully convey the entire block of information he was teaching, demonstrating, and outlining the practice routine for that specific material.

What are your feelings on one weekly averaged score (comprised of multiple daily scored training sessions), charted over a 6 week block, to gauge relative level of mastery? - GJ
Click to expand...

Seems like it should work just fine! As I'm sure you know the main thing is to smooth out quick dips and highs to get a real look at performance. Graphing or other graphics can then create a visual picture that can outweigh perception that can fool anyone sometimes.

Bert contributed a whole set of his video's years ago. I got half and another winner got the other half. Lots of pool goodness!

Hu
 
50/50 works best for me.

50% playing someone
50% practicing

When I use my time playing/practicing about equally I play my best. If I only play and don’t practice that’s not optimal, same for practice pool-that’s useless as well. Need to be in must win pressure situations to grow.

SVB practices a lot. Idk what his ratio is. But it’s close to 50/50 even 35/65 practice/play is good. I think less than 35% practice time is cutting corners for most players. It’s not a one size fits all.

Occasionally I’ll go off the script if I’m playing really well and keep doing what ever is working until it doesn’t. This is just a general theory of 50/50.

Best
Fatboy 😃
 
Woodshaft said:
That sounds about right. But make those practices and "playing someones" meaningful.
And vary up the table sizes and locations of play.
Variety widens the range of your "comfort level", which is key to playing consistently in various tourneys/leagues/money games.
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That’s exactly right 💪
 
Fatboy said:
50/50 works best for me.

50% playing someone
50% practicing

When I use my time playing/practicing about equally I play my best. If I only play and don’t practice that’s not optimal, same for practice pool-that’s useless as well. Need to be in must win pressure situations to grow.

SVB practices a lot. Idk what his ratio is. But it’s close to 50/50 even 35/65 practice/play is good. I think less than 35% practice time is cutting corners for most players. It’s not a one size fits all.

Occasionally I’ll go off the script if I’m playing really well and keep doing what ever is working until it doesn’t. This is just a general theory of 50/50.

Best
Fatboy 😃
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Well, here we have another really important point being made.

FATBOY is correct. PLAY is essential - and, I am not talking about "Please Mr A+ rated player, kick my butt across the table so I can learn something type-play" - I am talking about just letting the spring unwind and have fun with your buddies around table - especially, after highly focused and disciplined training sessions. After we've wound that precision spring really tight, it's good to just "let it rip and have FUN". Let what happens on the PLAY table after your intense training session... happen, naturally.

A good ring-game with your best buddies, loads of talking smack and laughter... We need this too; or, risk burning-out or getting stale.

Think of it like Recess, right after back-to-back Trigonometry and Science class with lab.

If we're not having FUN along with our serious training sessions, imho, we are doing something wrong. - GJ
 
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GentlemanJames said:
Well, here we have another really important point being made.

FATBOY is correct. PLAY is essential - and, I am not talking about "Please Mr A+ rated player, kick my butt across the table so I can learn something type-play" - I am talking about just letting the spring unwind and have fun with your buddies around table - especially, after highly focused and disciplined training sessions. After we've wound that precision spring really tight, it's good to just "let it rip and have FUN". Let what happens on the PLAY table after your intense training session... happen, naturally.

A good ring-game with your best buddies, load of talking smack and laughter... We need this too; or, risk burning-out or getting stale.

Think of it like Recess, right after back-to-back Trigonometry and Science class with lab.

If we're not having FUN along with our serious training sessions, imho, we are doing something wrong. - GJ
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I miss playing $1 on the 5 $2 on the 9, ring games. Sometimes we played higher. Or played pea-pool. Was always good fun when we were C+ to B+ players. After I got better that was over. Bank ring games are fun even for A+ players. Fun to watch too.

I miss that action.
 
pea pool with a few was always fun. but too easy to cheat at which usually happened at some point.
i still have one of those bottles and peas.
few will know what we are talking about as its a dead game and shows your age.
 
maha said:
pea pool with a few was always fun. but too easy to cheat at which usually happened at some point.
i still have one of those bottles and peas.
few will know what we are talking about as its a dead game and shows your age.
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There's not enough room in a full bottle for the pills to circulate. Whatever went in last tends to come out first until there's enough room. I use a gentle circular motion (think Vomit Comet) to try and coax anything deep in there to the top.
 
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