CSI/Predator Michigan Open (Men/Women) 10 Ball (21-24Sep)

[sjm]

We've known Aloysius Yapp was a fine player for quite some time, but I'd like to offer that he's still maturing in his game. Based on watching his performances in the World Games (where he won bronze) and the Michigan Open stream, I feel he continues to make better and better decisions at the table and deserves to be counted as one of the game's most thoughtful players.

Well played, Mr Yapp.

 

[Island Drive]

Is Puerto Rico still on??? Hurricane devastated the grid. They have no power. Place is a dump on a good day.

I know Cecils there.

 

[YukonCornelius]

Yapp has been subtly flying under the radar with many not perfect, yet commendable finishes in the past year or so. He can’t be underestimated in the field at the US Open

 

[ctyhntr]

Is Puerto Rico still on??? Hurricane devastated the grid. They have no power. Place is a dump on a good day.

The tournament is scheduled to take place in the Puerto Rico Convention Center in San Juan. As of today, it's still on the schedule.

 

[ctyhntr]

Looks like Predator pumping in more money than Matchroom with so many more events in their calendar
After Ohio Open, they have double in Puerto Rico-the Puerto Rico Open https://probilliardseries.com/event/1684/ followed by World 8 Ball (first since 2012). 18x FR800 players (about 60% of top 30 FR players) already signed up so it will be very strong field

It's awesome that Predator revive those major defunct events considered dead i.e. World 10 Ball, World Teams, Women's 10 Ball and now World 8 Ball. Those events before Predator were last held decade ago

Would Matchroom and others put up as much money if it wasn't for Predator entering into the tournament business? Predator and Matchroom are taking two different approaches. From what I can see, Predator is taking the long game. Instead of PPV, all the CSI/Predator streams are free because they're looking to build an audience.

For now, between the two, this is the closest we have to a world tour.

 

[sjm]

It's no secret that I hate shootouts, but that said, I feel CSI/Predator are doing some things that will appeal to the mainstream fan.

Loose Pockets
Forget about the pocket measurements or what the commentators say, anyone watching these events knows that these pockets are playing loose. The casual fan likes break-and-run racks and is served well by this. In contrast, the recent changes to the break rules at Matchroom events led to very low break-and-run rates at August's European Open. Per At Large's stats, the breaker won the rack 58% of the time at the Michigan Open, while the breaker won just 50% of the racks at the European Open.

Races to Four
As much as I hate shootouts, I love races to four. I love them for the exact same reason I love the race to five Mosconi format. They put both the players and the viewers on edge during the play and every match stays competitive. Fall behind 6-2 in a race to nine at nine-ball against a comparable opponent and you'll rarely find the winner's circle, as you'll need to win seven of the subsequent nine racks. Fall behind 4-1, 2-1 in a CSI/Predator event and you're still in with a good chance to force a tiebreaker.

Even So ...
It's no secret that I much prefer Matchroom events to Predator for several reasons: a) better tournament venues, b) better playing arenas, c) better seating for patrons, d) better commentary, e) invitations and seeding based on merit, f) televised on Sky sports in Europe, and, of course, g) no shootouts. Most of all, however, Matchroom is drawing much stronger fields than CSI/Predator events and this is, in part, due to the relatively new Matchroom nine-ball ranking system that, to me, offers the only really meaningful ranking system in men's pro pool today, ensuring that all the top players are invited.

The Matchroom events are very suitable for the die-hard fan and may well be more to the liking of the top players. Matchroom, thanks to the outstanding visionary Emily Frazer, continues to produce wonderful events, but I'll have to concede that CSI/Predator, which has added a lot of money to pro pool of late, may be doing more to attract the casual fan than Matchroom.

As I've said before, pro pool is big enough for both of these prominent event producers, and I'd like to see both succeed beyond their wildest dreams.

 

[Woodshaft]

It's no secret that I much prefer Matchroom events to Predator for several reasons

I agree. I only wish that Matchroom was doing 10-ball instead of 9-ball.
The modern pros are too good to be competing in 9-ball.
To me, modern 9-ball is the 7-ball of yester-year. Too easy and frankly, boring.

 

[sjm]

I agree. I only wish that Matchroom was doing 10-ball instead of 9-ball.
The modern pros are too good to be competing in 9-ball.
To me, modern 9-ball is the 7-ball of yester-year. Too easy and frankly, boring.

I do not enjoy ten-ball nearly as much as nine-ball unless it is played Texas Express. That's why the only 10-ball event I always look forward to is the Bigfoot Challenge on the ten-foot table, played at both Derby City and the International. Since its inception many years ago, the Bigfoot has always been played with Texas Express rules.

Finally, it is a myth that ten-ball is substantially harder than nine ball.

 

[straightline]

I do not enjoy ten-ball nearly as much as nine-ball unless it is played Texas Express. That's why the only 10-ball event I always look forward to is the Bigfoot Challenge on the ten-foot table, played at both Derby City and the International. Since its inception many years ago, the Bigfoot has always been played with Texas Express rules.

Finally, it is a myth that ten-ball is substantially harder than nine ball.

The ball distribution is so uniform, once you get an out, it's easier than straight pool.

 

[Tin Man]

I do not enjoy ten-ball nearly as much as nine-ball unless it is played Texas Express. That's why the only 10-ball event I always look forward to is the Bigfoot Challenge on the ten-foot table, played at both Derby City and the International. Since its inception many years ago, the Bigfoot has always been played with Texas Express rules.

Finally, it is a myth that ten-ball is substantially harder than nine ball.

I think there was truth to 10 ball being harder back when it first became popular. In the early 00s when it was picking up momentum it was a different game. We were using triangle racks and the break wasn't well developed. There were a number of dry breaks, and even a break which yielded a ball or two would have a random layout of 8-9 balls left with a lot of congestion.

15-20 years later we are using template racks and the top players are making 1-4 balls on the break routinely. Meanwhile the remaining balls are floated apart nicely. So I certainly agree this isn't harder than 9 ball, particularly when compared to MR's new break rules with a smaller break box and the 9 on the spot.

I will also agree I prefer Texas Express. Not only is the two way shot in play more often, but it also helps preserve the balance between the 'safer' and the 'kicker'. When the kicker has to call their shot it tilts the balance even further towards the shooter, resulting in a more defensive game (less risk to let your opponent kick out of a safety) and reduces the suspense in these situations.

The only thing I may stray from you on is the race to 4. This isn't to mean you're wrong of course, I just have a different preference. Personally I prefer full length sets. I have played just one of these predator events and it does feel like one continuous double hill. It isn't pleasant for me. So regardless of what works for the fans, sponsors, or anyone else, I get to go where I want to go. I much prefer to play events with longer races. I think it would be different if I was full time and playing 40 events a year. In that case I could play a faster format and just know that it would work both ways. But when I only get to fire a few tournaments a year I can't bring myself to spend one of them in a format where I might barely see the table or I don't have the opportunity to recover from a nervous first rack.

Like you though I wish these tournaments the best. See you at the Open!

 

[sjm]

I think there was truth to 10 ball being harder back when it first became popular. In the early 00s when it was picking up momentum it was a different game. We were using triangle racks and the break wasn't well developed. There were a number of dry breaks, and even a break which yielded a ball or two would have a random layout of 8-9 balls left with a lot of congestion.

15-20 years later we are using template racks and the top players are making 1-4 balls on the break routinely. Meanwhile the remaining balls are floated apart nicely. So I certainly agree this isn't harder than 9 ball, particularly when compared to MR's new break rules with a smaller break box and the 9 on the spot.

I will also agree I prefer Texas Express. Not only is the two way shot in play more often, but it also helps preserve the balance between the 'safer' and the 'kicker'. When the kicker has to call their shot it tilts the balance even further towards the shooter, resulting in a more defensive game (less risk to let your opponent kick out of a safety) and reduces the suspense in these situations.

The only thing I may stray from you on is the race to 4. This isn't to mean you're wrong of course, I just have a different preference. Personally I prefer full length sets. I have played just one of these predator events and it does feel like one continuous double hill. It isn't pleasant for me. So regardless of what works for the fans, sponsors, or anyone else, I get to go where I want to go. I much prefer to play events with longer races. I think it would be different if I was full time and playing 40 events a year. In that case I could play a faster format and just know that it would work both ways. But when I only get to fire a few tournaments a year I can't bring myself to spend one of them in a format where I might barely see the table or I don't have the opportunity to recover from a nervous first rack.

Like you though I wish these tournaments the best. See you at the Open!

Agreed 100%. Once upon a time, people had a harder time with the ten-ball break than the nine-ball break.

The truth is, however, that the ten-ball break was figured out long ago and, to use the terminology so popular on the forum, the ten-ball break is every bit as broken as the nine-ball break.

As for the short race thing, I did comment in my post, "The Matchroom events are very suitable for the die-hard fan and may well be more to the liking of the top players." So, I do know where you're coming from as a competitor. I merely contended that short races can and have electrified the fans at times, most notably at the Mosconi Cup.

Yup, I'll catch you at the US Open for sure. Until then, be well.

 

[mikepage]

We've known Aloysius Yapp was a fine player for quite some time, but I'd like to offer that he's still maturing in his game. Based on watching his performances in the World Games (where he won bronze) and the Michigan Open stream, I feel he continues to make better and better decisions at the table and deserves to be counted as one of the game's most thoughtful players.

Well played, Mr Yapp.

I don't know if you do facebook, but a year ago, just BEFORE he won the Michigan Open, we posted this.
He won that MI event we mentioned. And then he won it this year too.

There should, imo, be top US players anytime the world's best from 10,000 miles away congregate in our backyard. I don't know at what point we start seeing the absence as disrespectful.

 

[sjm]

I don't know if you do facebook, but a year ago, just BEFORE he won the Michigan Open, we posted this.
He won that MI event we mentioned. And then he won it this year too.

There should, imo, be top US players anytime the world's best from 10,000 miles away congregate in our backyard. I don't know at what point we start seeing the absence as disrespectful.View attachment 663569

No, I'm not a Facebook user. Yes, it's disappointing and puzzling that the top US players seem to sit out these high-paying events.

 

[AtLarge]

... Matchroom, is drawing much stronger fields than CSI/Predator events and this is, in part, due to the relatively new Matchroom nine-ball ranking system that, to me, offers the only really meaningful ranking system in men's pro pool today, ensuring that all the top players are invited. ...

It looks like the CSI/Predator Ohio Open is going to benefit from its proximity (temporal, not physical) to the U.S. Open. According to the current list of entrants, 37 of the field's 64 players have FargoRates of 750+, including about a dozen 800s.

 

[sjm]

It looks like the CSI/Predator Ohio Open is going to benefit from its proximity (temporal, not physical) to the U.S. Open. According to the current list of entrants, 37 of the field's 64 players have FargoRates of 750+, including about a dozen 800s.

That is good to hear.

 

[CallShotCowboy]

It looks like the CSI/Predator Ohio Open is going to benefit from its proximity (temporal, not physical) to the U.S. Open. According to the current list of entrants, 37 of the field's 64 players have FargoRates of 750+, including about a dozen 800s.

What Americans have signed up?

 

[AtLarge]

What Americans have signed up?

A rhetorical question, perhaps. Here's the list: https://www.playcsipool.com/2022-ohio-open.html. Go down the page to "THE PLAYERS" and then choose "Ohio Open - Stage 1" from the drop-down list.

The FargoRate list has 24 USA players at 750+. Just two of them are entered -- Styer and Seaman. For others in the USA's top 100, add Martin, Robles, and Baker. So, not much of a USA showing, but possibly the correct one financially.

 

[skogstokig]

So, not much of a USA showing, but possibly the correct one financially.

doesn't billy thorpe live in ohio?

 

[sjm]

I'm sure some will opt for the Sandcastle Open, 10/6-8, in Edison New Jersey. It's only about 100 miles from the US Open venue. Host Ed Liddawi always puts on a good show,

 

[AtLarge]

doesn't billy thorpe live in ohio?

He is from Dayton, which is close to Wilmington. But I don't know where he actually lives now. We are coming up on good pro events in the United States on 5 successive weeks, starting with the Sandcastle Open (where Thorpe is an entrant). Perhaps some players felt it wiser to pace themselves a bit rather than going from two locations in New Jersey out to Ohio and then down to Virginia Beach and Norfolk. I also wonder whether some good players are being squeezed out of an event like the Ohio Open because of it filling the 64-player limit before they submitted their entry. The CSI/Predator events are called a "Pro Billiard Series," but lots of entrants are far from pro-level players. I wonder whether anything is being done to see that pros aren't denied spots because of quick entries by players who really do not belong in a pro event (other than helping the prize fund).