Eight ball pocketed on carom

gregcantrall said:
Local bar room rules can have some interesting variations. Call every kiss carom or rail being the most common that I have encountered. Under those rules if I call a straight back bank they will most likely inquire, "is that one rail or two?" Meaning if it brushes the side rail going in it's a rail. I don't mind the various rule sets and in most cases don't even mind a surprise rule. As long as we are going to continue playing for stakes. The rule that surprised me the most came up playing a tournament in a refinery in Fort McMurray, CND. C eah N eah D eah.😉 Oh yeah, the rule was it was a foul for me to pocket my opponent's ball. He had a ball blocking a corner pocket. I made a called shot in the side and took his out with the cue ball leaving me shape to continue with that pocket now available to use and run out. I thought! Foul! Called by the director. Could not get a historical reason other than that was what his father taught him.🤷 Oh well, it was a weekly free tournament that awarded a T-shirt to the winner. I was there for 6 weeks building scaffolding and saw to that my fellow scaffolding builders got a shirt.😉
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Aren't English or French maybe, pub rules something like that? They take their blocks very seriously :)
 
Kjackxon said:
During an 8 Ball match my opponent was on the 8 ball (called shot). My ball was partially blocking the pocket. He pointed to the pocket and caromed the 8 ball off of the other ball. I asked him what rule made that a legally pocketed ball. His reply was that there was a local rule used by one of their leagues. Looking into a few rule books I found multiple explanations.
I typically play using BCA rules, and I don’t feel bound by a local agreement.
What would be the appropriate ruling for called shots on the 8 ball?
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Good shot. You lose. Rack the balls.
 
u12armresl said:
You know the rules they were playing, the same ones players hate.
"Look up dere on dem dat wall
Rule 1 No Gambling
Rule 2 Call all shots including rail and kisses
Rule 3 Bartender has final say
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But the opponent is the one saying that the “local rules” allow to play the 8-ball off another ball. That would be consistent with organized rules, not bar rules.

The OP on the other hand, although they say they are used to playing BCA rules, seems to think that the 8-ball can’t go off another ball and is suspicious .

Get what I’m saying?
 
Cornerman said:
But the opponent is the one saying that the “local rules” allow to play the 8-ball off another ball. That would be consistent with organized rules, not bar rules.

The OP on the other hand, although they say they are used to playing BCA rules, seems to think that the 8-ball can’t go off another ball and is suspicious .

Get what I’m saying?
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Plot twist, opponent is owner of the bar.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In all the written rulesets I know of that talk about call shot eight ball, you have to specify only the ball and the pocket. Kisses, banks, etc., make no difference. As Freddie said, under BCAPL/CSI and BCA/WPA/WSR rules, only the pocket has to be called. Your opponent was correct.

In many bars, the patrons insist on calling all kisses and cushions. Or, they say that the eight ball must go cleanly. Those are bar rules, not actual, printed official rules. Often you have to play by the local room rules. They could be anything. Your opponent might not tell you that "We always play last pocket, and that was the wrong pocket," until after you have lost on what you thought was a perfectly good shot. In a bar, locals usually get their way.

Did you discuss the rules before you started?

The BCA rules (World Standardized Rules) are here: https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/

The BCAPL/CSI rules are here: https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html

And as far as APA goes, I think it is the same way but you also need to mark the pocket.
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All irrelevant but some people get head cracked open from lack of communication... Guy
 
Guy Manges said:
All irrelevant but some people get head cracked open from lack of communication... Guy
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That's why I never play bar rules. Never. You (anyone) will play some established rule set...BCA, Valley, Texas Express, or even APA... or I dont play at all.

I've played people that just make shit up as you play the game.
 
Thanks and I appreciate all of the responses. However, in respect to APA/BCA standardized rules it’s hard to cite the rules when you just want to compete the rack.
I don’t play APA due to all the SLOP that’s present to keep the game moving. I did look at the BCA standardized rules for “combination shots” and found the following:

16. COMBINATION SHOTS. Combination shots are allowed. However, the 8 ball cannot be used as a first ball in the combination except when the table is open.

Is this a legitimate rule? Would this imply that the before mentioned shot was illegal under BCA but legal under APA. When my opponent noted that SLOP was allowed it was likely that he was referencing a APA and not a bar rule. I strictly stay away from APA rules for that reason.

Note: I’m looking for clarification and not a war with my APA friends 😂
 
Kjackxon said:
Thanks and I appreciate all of the responses. However, in respect to APA/BCA standardized rules it’s hard to cite the rules when you just want to compete the rack.
I don’t play APA due to all the SLOP that’s present to keep the game moving. I did look at the BCA standardized rules for “combination shots” and found the following:

16. COMBINATION SHOTS. Combination shots are allowed. However, the 8 ball cannot be used as a first ball in the combination except when the table is open.

Is this a legitimate rule? Would this imply that the before mentioned shot was illegal under BCA but legal under APA. When my opponent noted that SLOP was allowed it was likely that he was referencing a APA and not a bar rule. I strictly stay away from APA rules for that reason.

Note: I’m looking for clarification and not a war with my APA friends 😂
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It's not a combo it's a carom. As long as the object ball that is called goes in the intended pocket, the path it takes to get there is irrelevant.
You're looking for illegally pocketed balls rule, I believe.
The shot was good.
 
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Kjackxon said:
16. COMBINATION SHOTS. Combination shots are allowed. However, the 8 ball cannot be used as a first ball in the combination except when the table is open.
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BCAPL Handbook at 2.5 will tell you that the 8-ball is never eligible for first contact with an open table.
 
Kjackxon said:
During an 8 Ball match my opponent was on the 8 ball (called shot). My ball was partially blocking the pocket. He pointed to the pocket and caromed the 8 ball off of the other ball. I asked him what rule made that a legally pocketed ball. His reply was that there was a local rule used by one of their leagues. Looking into a few rule books I found multiple explanations.
I typically play using BCA rules, and I don’t feel bound by a local agreement.
What would be the appropriate ruling for called shots on the 8 ball?
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I can only speak for BCA and Valley. In both of those leagues, you only have to call the ball and the pocket. You can bounce off of 10 rails and 5 balls and as long as it goes in the called pocket, it counts. Don't have to call kisses, etc.
 
Kjackxon said:
Thanks and I appreciate all of the responses. However, in respect to APA/BCA standardized rules it’s hard to cite the rules when you just want to compete the rack.
I don’t play APA due to all the SLOP that’s present to keep the game moving. I did look at the BCA standardized rules for “combination shots” and found the following:

16. COMBINATION SHOTS. Combination shots are allowed. However, the 8 ball cannot be used as a first ball in the combination except when the table is open.

Is this a legitimate rule? Would this imply that the before mentioned shot was illegal under BCA but legal under APA. When my opponent noted that SLOP was allowed it was likely that he was referencing a APA and not a bar rule. I strictly stay away from APA rules for that reason.

Note: I’m looking for clarification and not a war with my APA friends 😂
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sigh…. This shot in your first post was not a combination. So disregard that rule since it’s not applicable. Many of us have already told you that the shot you described is legal in BCA (which you say you’re used to) and legal in BCAPL (which many of us believe is what your meant).. Regardless, in both, the shot you mentioned is legal.

It happens to be legal in APA as well.

Can this be over now?
 
Zerksies said:
clean
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What one considers "clean" varies substantially. the "ball and pocket" call is supposed to eliminate those "not clean" complaints. If it was the right ball and pocket and you hit your own ball first, you should be good under "ball and pocket" rules.

One reason for 9b's popularity is the simplicity of rules. You can play 9b with people even when you don't speak the same language.
 
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