See post 66
Mosconi cup
- Thread starter JCL
- Start date
IF the U.S. prevails, I'd say Woodward is making an early case for a 3rd MVP.
I believe all upstream from the venue was down, meaning only those on location would see what was going on.
i prefer the irish guy, mcmullen.
also would like to hear someone like corey deuel instead of poker guy.
Random thoughts after the first two days. It feels like we’ve seen a lot of pool already, but these are only the preliminaries. At 4-4 there is still so much pool to be played! As SJM has reminded us so many times, the MC is a marathon and not a sprint. The short races can be deceiving. There is a lot of pool to be played over the course of four days.
On Day Three we get down to the nitty gritty of this grueling contest. One side may well take command and establish a big lead going into the final day. I for one hope that is not the case. Personally I like to see a competitive MC and not a blowout. A runaway victory takes the luster off a great event.
It’s hard to overlook the imposing line up the Euros present here. All five are champion players in my opinion. There is no weak link, and I don’t anticipate seeing any chinks in their armor during the final two days.
The US squad is not as well endowed. We have one true champion leading the charge and one former champion striving to find a little lost glory. One other player who has thoroughbred credentials and a young gun who is just emerging as a high level player. Our last player is a journeyman pro who is certainly capable of competing against the star studded line up facing him, but must be considered an underdog against any one of them. In other words the US has thrown a motley crew into this contest and they have acquitted themselves well so far. Credit must be given to coach Jones who has molded this team into a formidable force.
Somehow, some way the US side must find a way to dig deep and play not only their best games, but step it up a notch and play above that level. Like the collegiate filled US hockey team in the 1980 Olympics, the 2022 US pool squad must go beyond what is expected of them to pull off what would be a miraculous victory. From where I sit it looks like David vs. Goliath. And we know how that one turned out!
Lastly, we absolutely MUST get this event on television in the United States! Period! Exclamation point!! It is too important for the future of our sport for the MC to continue not being televised in the biggest television market on the planet, especially when one of the teams represents the USA! Can you imagine if the Ryder Cup was only available on a live stream in America? There would be a revolt!
I will remind you there are many television options here, ESPN being only one of them. The MC could be on Travel Channel and millions would watch it! DAZN is simply not the right place for an event of this magnitude! Many years ago when Matchroom began producing the World Pool Chamionships, they were also not being televised here. This was before the days of YouTube and the like. I made a deal with Barry Hearn for the North American rights to sell videotape copies of the final matches from the Quarterfinals on. That way the hardcore American pool fans could see all the great matches that I had seen in person in Cardiff, Wales. That hardcore base of pool fans has greatly expanded since then! I am seeing the evidence of that right here, with literally thousands of fans traveling great distances to witness the competition in person. I’m certain there are a million others who wish they could be here. Do not buy into that fallacy that no one knows who the top pro players are. The internet has changed all that! Shane may be the biggest star on this team, but he is not the only one. All the other players are getting the star treatment here, signing autographs and being in one photo op after another.
Time to build on that momentum and put pro pool in front of as many people as possible. I’m calling on Matchroom, the BCA and all the biggest pool companies to join forces and get the MC on television here where it belongs. And I’m calling myself out too. I plan to take action on my own to see that this happens.
On Day Three we get down to the nitty gritty of this grueling contest. One side may well take command and establish a big lead going into the final day. I for one hope that is not the case. Personally I like to see a competitive MC and not a blowout. A runaway victory takes the luster off a great event.
It’s hard to overlook the imposing line up the Euros present here. All five are champion players in my opinion. There is no weak link, and I don’t anticipate seeing any chinks in their armor during the final two days.
The US squad is not as well endowed. We have one true champion leading the charge and one former champion striving to find a little lost glory. One other player who has thoroughbred credentials and a young gun who is just emerging as a high level player. Our last player is a journeyman pro who is certainly capable of competing against the star studded line up facing him, but must be considered an underdog against any one of them. In other words the US has thrown a motley crew into this contest and they have acquitted themselves well so far. Credit must be given to coach Jones who has molded this team into a formidable force.
Somehow, some way the US side must find a way to dig deep and play not only their best games, but step it up a notch and play above that level. Like the collegiate filled US hockey team in the 1980 Olympics, the 2022 US pool squad must go beyond what is expected of them to pull off what would be a miraculous victory. From where I sit it looks like David vs. Goliath. And we know how that one turned out!
Lastly, we absolutely MUST get this event on television in the United States! Period! Exclamation point!! It is too important for the future of our sport for the MC to continue not being televised in the biggest television market on the planet, especially when one of the teams represents the USA! Can you imagine if the Ryder Cup was only available on a live stream in America? There would be a revolt!
I will remind you there are many television options here, ESPN being only one of them. The MC could be on Travel Channel and millions would watch it! DAZN is simply not the right place for an event of this magnitude! Many years ago when Matchroom began producing the World Pool Chamionships, they were also not being televised here. This was before the days of YouTube and the like. I made a deal with Barry Hearn for the North American rights to sell videotape copies of the final matches from the Quarterfinals on. That way the hardcore American pool fans could see all the great matches that I had seen in person in Cardiff, Wales. That hardcore base of pool fans has greatly expanded since then! I am seeing the evidence of that right here, with literally thousands of fans traveling great distances to witness the competition in person. I’m certain there are a million others who wish they could be here. Do not buy into that fallacy that no one knows who the top pro players are. The internet has changed all that! Shane may be the biggest star on this team, but he is not the only one. All the other players are getting the star treatment here, signing autographs and being in one photo op after another.
Time to build on that momentum and put pro pool in front of as many people as possible. I’m calling on Matchroom, the BCA and all the biggest pool companies to join forces and get the MC on television here where it belongs. And I’m calling myself out too. I plan to take action on my own to see that this happens.
Last edited:
I just think she does not know male pool pros as well in America as she does in Europe. She shares a lot of tidbits about the European pros, which is fun to hear. But I also like to hear about the American pros. Somebody like Jay Helfert would be great, since he's there on-site. Yes, Nick Schulman is an excellent commentator, but he left the pool world a long time ago and went to poker. Nick is a professional commentator in poker, but he doesn't know pool players as well as others, both American and European, in my opinion, based on listening to his commentary.
That said, I am a huge fan of Allison Fisher as a pro player.
Last edited:
Interestingly, about Phil Yates, I listen to him on snooker matches all the time, and you can tell he researches the players and the game and the venue before each match. He's chockful of data and little tidbits. I enjoy his commentary.
And those who know me are well aware that I am a USA, USA, USA all the way kind of pool fan, but I much prefer the snooker referees to all others. The snooker referees just exude professionalism. Brendon Moore, who is there, is head snooker referee in the snooker world, but my favorite is Marcel Eckardt from Germany. My buddy in Vegas (Hal) saw Marcel in the hallway and told him he had an American fan (me) and showed him my Facebook photo. Hal took a photo of Eckardt and him, and Marcel send me some kind words. Wow! It really lifted my spirits.
I think Earl will be the Achilles heel for Team USA, as this marathon continues. I say that, regrettably. He still shoots a mean ball, he just seems to be completely "in his own head," so to speak. I honestly hope I'm wrong.
It looks like Alcaide is playing twice.
It looks like Alcaide is playing twice.
Haha I haven't really paid attention to him. I was referring to the other Spaniard who has looked terrible so far.
You know Jay, a thought just occurred to me. I hear there's this guy, who's iron in pretty hot right now, and as I understand it, he happens to really like pool. Calling Joe Rogan!! I would love to see Joe get involved in promoting events like the Mcup. The guy has a huge platform right now. Maybe we could have the guys play in an enlarged UFC style octagon. Obviously without the cage...maybe.
Europe does not have a weak link.
Do or die today. Everyone must contribute some points! It will take a superlative effort by Team USA to keep this close going into the final day. 3-3 today would be huge!
Agreed, huge first match and if USA can eek out the win, who knows!
Coach Johan Ruysink, who coached Team Europe and was called in to coach Team USA a couple years for the Mosconi Cup, has been sharing his words of wisdom based on his observations of Days 1 and 2. This is very enlightening and hit the nail on the head for me.
My takes of day 2
Today, let's talk about line-ups, the fan’s choice and the interaction between audience and players.
One of the more complicated tasks of a captain on the Mosconi Cup is to make the line up. I am sorry to bother you with that, but it is important. The system for that has changed during the years. In 2007 I still had a free choice on who to play in doubles and who to play in singles. As long as every player played the same amount of matches. That ended up in me putting Tony Drago only in singles matches (because he is not a very good doubles partner, lol) and that brought him the MVP title.
Nowadays the days are divided in blocks. Most consist of 2 doubles and one single, but also 1 double and 3 singles or just singles. In these blocks every player needs to have played and the singles divided evenly amongst the players. And you can’t play the same double partner twice. So every decision, from the first day on, has implications for the next day. This means that captains basically need to make the full line up for the first 3 days before the start of the event. The last day is only singles and then it is all about the order that the captain thinks is the best.
Quite complicated and important to get it right. From as soon as this system was implemented, we found out that one way or another. The fifth match on day 1 (which is a singles match), is like an extra match. When it goes to hill-hill, every player had the same amount of matches, but the guy that had played the 5th match on day 1, had 1 match extra. Captains know this and it is one of the tactical tools, you can use as a captain, next to the captains pick on the very last match, when it come to that.
On top of that, Matchroom decided to get the crowd more involved and they came up with the fan’s choice. This is a monster for any captain. Because it hands over the tactical decision of the line up to the audience. And yesterday, the audience decided that they wanted to see Earl play, for old time reasons, and in spite the fact that he obviously had performed very poorly on the first day. The European choice was Jayson, as is the case most of the years. Earl came out quite strong on the open chances he got by some poor shots of Jayson, but when it got to the flic-flac pool of pushing out, safeties and kicks, he made critical mistakes.
For what I have seen team USA did a very decent job, both in team spirit, coaching and preparedness and they grabbed momentum on day 1. Obviously, as a coach you want to prolongue that momentum, but the fan’s choice didn’t leave Jeremy any choice.
Since only 4 matches were played on day 1, the last single (the “free choice”) shifted to day 2 and was now the match after the fan’s choice. It seems every year that for team USA it is hard to go around SVB. He is every year the one that plays this match for team USA. I understand that in a way, but on day 1 both Tyler and Skyler showed so much speed in their game, that I would have loved to see one of them being placed on that spot. For team Europe the choice of Joshua seemed logical.
So, here and now, I plead to get rid of this fan’s choice. The crowd is involved enough nowadays anyways, it hampers the tactical decisions of the captains and it gives us, as an audience, too often the same line ups and matches each year. In 2018 both the 5th match as the fan’s choice turned out to be Jason against SVB, so we had the same match twice in a row. Moreover: it interferes with an honest calculation for the MVP, because for example last year, Jason had played 7 matches in the MC, where his team mates ended up with 4 or 5 matches and since you earn points per match, it is close to impossible to win the MVP by only playing 4 matches in a winning team. I am a fan of the MC being a team effort, instead of it being the SVB/Skyler against Jason/Joshua show.
So in my opinion team USA lost momentum because of its line up in the first 2 matches on day 2. And of course because team Europe performed much better then on day 1, let’s not forget about that.
Then I need to address the reaction of Jason and Joshua to the audience. Like I said after day 1, I think the audience in America is pretty knowledgeable and respectful to the players. There are always some people that go too far in their excitement, but the mass intimidation that team USA encounters in Europe, is not even comparable. That’s why I don’t really understand the reasons for Jason and Joshua to react so heavily on the crowd after their wins. It seemed very disrespectful and probably Matchroom likes the show element of it, but as far as sportsmanship goes, it was ugly and unnecessary. For us, players and coaches, it is the biggest SPORT event in pool, the whole world is watching. Some sort of realization from the players of their ambassadorship for the sport would be nice.
All in all a good comeback from team Europe, this year they had an early “correction day’ and it was only Skyler who stopped this come back by putting so much pressure on a really strong FSR, that it forced the odd mistake of the rookie and Sky capitalized on that brilliantly.
Most of the times team Europe gets better during the MC, so team USA has its work cut out for them. Let’s hope they can keep the fight going, so we can enjoy more exciting, high level and close games.
Today, let's talk about line-ups, the fan’s choice and the interaction between audience and players.
One of the more complicated tasks of a captain on the Mosconi Cup is to make the line up. I am sorry to bother you with that, but it is important. The system for that has changed during the years. In 2007 I still had a free choice on who to play in doubles and who to play in singles. As long as every player played the same amount of matches. That ended up in me putting Tony Drago only in singles matches (because he is not a very good doubles partner, lol) and that brought him the MVP title.
Nowadays the days are divided in blocks. Most consist of 2 doubles and one single, but also 1 double and 3 singles or just singles. In these blocks every player needs to have played and the singles divided evenly amongst the players. And you can’t play the same double partner twice. So every decision, from the first day on, has implications for the next day. This means that captains basically need to make the full line up for the first 3 days before the start of the event. The last day is only singles and then it is all about the order that the captain thinks is the best.
Quite complicated and important to get it right. From as soon as this system was implemented, we found out that one way or another. The fifth match on day 1 (which is a singles match), is like an extra match. When it goes to hill-hill, every player had the same amount of matches, but the guy that had played the 5th match on day 1, had 1 match extra. Captains know this and it is one of the tactical tools, you can use as a captain, next to the captains pick on the very last match, when it come to that.
On top of that, Matchroom decided to get the crowd more involved and they came up with the fan’s choice. This is a monster for any captain. Because it hands over the tactical decision of the line up to the audience. And yesterday, the audience decided that they wanted to see Earl play, for old time reasons, and in spite the fact that he obviously had performed very poorly on the first day. The European choice was Jayson, as is the case most of the years. Earl came out quite strong on the open chances he got by some poor shots of Jayson, but when it got to the flic-flac pool of pushing out, safeties and kicks, he made critical mistakes.
For what I have seen team USA did a very decent job, both in team spirit, coaching and preparedness and they grabbed momentum on day 1. Obviously, as a coach you want to prolongue that momentum, but the fan’s choice didn’t leave Jeremy any choice.
Since only 4 matches were played on day 1, the last single (the “free choice”) shifted to day 2 and was now the match after the fan’s choice. It seems every year that for team USA it is hard to go around SVB. He is every year the one that plays this match for team USA. I understand that in a way, but on day 1 both Tyler and Skyler showed so much speed in their game, that I would have loved to see one of them being placed on that spot. For team Europe the choice of Joshua seemed logical.
So, here and now, I plead to get rid of this fan’s choice. The crowd is involved enough nowadays anyways, it hampers the tactical decisions of the captains and it gives us, as an audience, too often the same line ups and matches each year. In 2018 both the 5th match as the fan’s choice turned out to be Jason against SVB, so we had the same match twice in a row. Moreover: it interferes with an honest calculation for the MVP, because for example last year, Jason had played 7 matches in the MC, where his team mates ended up with 4 or 5 matches and since you earn points per match, it is close to impossible to win the MVP by only playing 4 matches in a winning team. I am a fan of the MC being a team effort, instead of it being the SVB/Skyler against Jason/Joshua show.
So in my opinion team USA lost momentum because of its line up in the first 2 matches on day 2. And of course because team Europe performed much better then on day 1, let’s not forget about that.
Then I need to address the reaction of Jason and Joshua to the audience. Like I said after day 1, I think the audience in America is pretty knowledgeable and respectful to the players. There are always some people that go too far in their excitement, but the mass intimidation that team USA encounters in Europe, is not even comparable. That’s why I don’t really understand the reasons for Jason and Joshua to react so heavily on the crowd after their wins. It seemed very disrespectful and probably Matchroom likes the show element of it, but as far as sportsmanship goes, it was ugly and unnecessary. For us, players and coaches, it is the biggest SPORT event in pool, the whole world is watching. Some sort of realization from the players of their ambassadorship for the sport would be nice.
All in all a good comeback from team Europe, this year they had an early “correction day’ and it was only Skyler who stopped this come back by putting so much pressure on a really strong FSR, that it forced the odd mistake of the rookie and Sky capitalized on that brilliantly.
Most of the times team Europe gets better during the MC, so team USA has its work cut out for them. Let’s hope they can keep the fight going, so we can enjoy more exciting, high level and close games.
and by the time earl gets to play the single vs albin he will have played shaw and filler, who can really rile him up.